Is Judo dead?

[Uchi Mata]

I think you miss understood baltos point...

No, I got it. And I think he's largely right, BJJ turns out effective fighters much quicker than Judo, without a doubt. But that's the original question of the thread, it was about whether or not Judo was dying in terms of the # of people who practice it. I say no.

 

[QingTian]

I think there is both a marketing problem and the overall experience. BJJ is simply more enjoyable, attracts a similar crowd, and is taught effectively. Judo has poor marketing, poor positive feedback, has kids and non-athletes mixed in, and generally is taught poorly in the US. On an intellectual level I find throwing more interesting but I generally enjoy groundwork more and enjoy going to BJJ clubs. And I just got randomly chewed out by my sensei like he was a feudal overlord, so now I'm seriously wondering wtf I'm doing there.

 

[PoundSand]

I didn't mean on the ground specifically. There's a lot more to grappling than groundwork, though BJJ guys often forget that fact.

i think judo grappling is even more limited in a general sense when you include standup grappling, with all the rules about where you can and can't grab, and how you can or can't grab, how you can't force a grip release, etc... but i'm just a judo newb, so we'll see if my opinion changes.

 

[dalexan242]

As I said more BJJ gyms than Judoka around here

I don't think its quite that bad since in a couple of minute search I found 11 gyms within or around the beltway that have judo clubs, but considering there are probably 150 BJJ gyms in the same area the original 1:30 ratio is probably pretty accurate.

 

[jujijimmy]

In the UK judo is bigger than bjj. The problem around me is tkd and karate, they seem to be alot more popular with kids. Also judo has a high drop out rate with adults because it hurts and injuries put people off. The politics in judo piss me off as well, bjj is a lot more relaxed and less formal. Everyone should train both IMO and crappy traditional ma should be scrapped.

 

[DiegoDiegerson]

Where I do judo is mostly young men among the students (blackbelts are mostly middle-aged), but it's a university club, so that's to be expected. I haven't been anywhere else for judo, and it's hard to compare the number of people there to where I do BJJ because it's only 2-3 classes a week, as opposed to multiple a day, so it's spread out much less. I'm glad I do both.

 

[Unipres]

Judo has no Royce Gracie to inspire a generation of new practitioners by completely dominating a tournament of mixed martial arts.

 

[dalexan242]

Judo has no Royce Gracie to inspire a generation of new practitioners by completely dominating a tournament of mixed martial arts.

Ronda Rousey has generated a lot of interest in judo-for-MMA, but in order for judo to capitalize off of that, not only does she have to continue to be successful in her MMA career, but judo clubs are going to have to commit to embracing cross-training with BJJ/wrestling/MMA and spend more time on groundwork, modified throws, and mix in some no-gi training. It doesn't really seem all that likely.

 

[Jonas g33k]

Judo has no Royce Gracie to inspire a generation of new practitioners by completely dominating a tournament of mixed martial arts.

Actually in France we have many commercials with Teddy Rinner, and when I was a child it was the same with David Douillet (as time passed he eventually became minister of sport).

In France judo is mostly for kids, but most of the adults are either:
_competitors who started as kids and continue judo since this sport became a part of their life.
_hot girls who want to learn martial arts to defend themselves, and since judo is the most common martial out there, they naturally take judo.
_hobbyist who want a good workout

MMA enthusiast are kind of rare since MMA is forbidden in France. Actually the French judo federation did some lobbying to make MMA censored on TV and MMA bouts illegal in France.
In this environment, I don't think judo's gonna die.

 

[Kaffe]

Judo has no Royce Gracie to inspire a generation of new practitioners by completely dominating a tournament of mixed martial arts.

We've got Rousey, who still hasn't finished a round without getting her opponent to the floor and finishing with the most iconic judo sub of them all.

It's not about getting people in the spotlight. It's about rules that favor people watching over people doing. It's fucked up when BJJ will make you a better standing grappler if taught and focused on by by a competent teacher. Judo is left with "but at least we spend more time standing" as a rationale for standing superiority. This is not to say we don't have our niche; it just means that outside of sport purposes, people will question what judo has to offer that BJJ can't.

 

[jujijimmy]

Actually in France we have many commercials with Teddy Rinner, and when I was a child it was the same with David Douillet (as time passed he eventually became minister of sport).

In France judo is mostly for kids, but most of the adults are either:
_competitors who started as kids and continue judo since this sport became a part of their life.
_hot girls who want to learn martial arts to defend themselves, and since judo is the most common martial out there, they naturally take judo.
_hobbyist who want a good workout

MMA enthusiast are kind of rare since MMA is forbidden in France. Actually the French judo federation did some lobbying to make MMA censored on TV and MMA bouts illegal in France.
In this environment, I don't think judo's gonna die.

wow i didnt know that. i have just got back from france, i know a young judoka over there who is top 10 in the country at her weight. shes got a scholarship at a good school where judo is part of her daily routine! wish we had that in the UK. i saw teddy on some kids cereal as well, unheard of in the uk.

 

[nefti]

People forget that alot of new Bjj students are men in their late 20's to 40's. I have trained both judo and bjj and I can't imagine trying judo at say 37. Bjj is just much easier on your body.

 

[ChainFlow]

We've got Rousey, who still hasn't finished a round without getting her opponent to the floor and finishing with the most iconic judo sub of them all.

It's not about getting people in the spotlight. It's about rules that favor people watching over people doing. It's fucked up when BJJ will make you a better standing grappler if taught and focused on by by a competent teacher. Judo is left with "but at least we spend more time standing" as a rationale for standing superiority. This is not to say we don't have our niche; it just means that outside of sport purposes, people will question what judo has to offer that BJJ can't.

Maybe better at getting people to the ground, but the effect of an ippon throw is more than just 2 points in a realistic situation.

A solid uchi mata or osoto or standing seoi nage is powerful attack and you will pretty much never learn how to put someone through the floor at a bjj school. Or how to do a decent foot sweep or tai otoshi for that matter.

Not to defend the new rules because they're why I have lost interest in judo competition. Horrible.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

We've got Rousey, who still hasn't finished a round without getting her opponent to the floor and finishing with the most iconic judo sub of them all.

It's not about getting people in the spotlight. It's about rules that favor people watching over people doing. It's fucked up when BJJ will make you a better standing grappler if taught and focused on by by a competent teacher. Judo is left with "but at least we spend more time standing" as a rationale for standing superiority. This is not to say we don't have our niche; it just means that outside of sport purposes, people will question what judo has to offer that BJJ can't.

Is not even close to the efect Royce has, Royce ran was on a time where ninja thought to be deadly, and saying that you trained in aikido was enough to make a Mexican drug cartel lord shit his pants, Royce separated the myth from reality, Rhonda is generating lots of buzz, but is just more of the same, outanding Mma fighter. Plus Royce did it in a Nhb setting all in one night and vs much bigger guys, the impact he had on people's eyes will never be archived by anyone else in Mma...

 

[ElKarlo]

I don't think its quite that bad since in a couple of minute search I found 11 gyms within or around the beltway that have judo clubs, but considering there are probably 150 BJJ gyms in the same area the original 1:30 ratio is probably pretty accurate.

A lot of those clubs have a few dozen people, at most. Also most TMA places that say that they have judo, don't

 

[georgejjr]

Actually in France we have many commercials with Teddy Rinner, and when I was a child it was the same with David Douillet (as time passed he eventually became minister of sport).

In France judo is mostly for kids, but most of the adults are either:
_competitors who started as kids and continue judo since this sport became a part of their life.
_hot girls who want to learn martial arts to defend themselves, and since judo is the most common martial out there, they naturally take judo.
_hobbyist who want a good workout

MMA enthusiast are kind of rare since MMA is forbidden in France. Actually the French judo federation did some lobbying to make MMA censored on TV and MMA bouts illegal in France.
In this environment, I don't think judo's gonna die.

I've heard judo is doing well in Europe and Asia, and I suspect that's what the IJF is aiming at with all its rules. I know a number of Japanese judoka, who claim that the IJF with all its rules is almost as unpopular in Japan as it is in North America (Japanese judo always favored a very minimal rule set - the original Kodokan rule book only had ten rules). Are they more popular in France?

I think its pretty sad that the French judo federation lobbied to censor MMA, but I guess that's their business. Why bother improving your product when you can just outlaw a different one?

 

[georgejjr]

Is not even close to the efect Royce has, Royce ran was on a time where ninja thought to be deadly, and saying that you trained in aikido was enough to make a Mexican drug cartel lord shit his pants, Royce separated the myth from reality, Rhonda is generating lots of buzz, but is just more of the same, outanding Mma fighter. Plus Royce did it in a Nhb setting all in one night and vs much bigger guys, the impact he had on people's eyes will never be archived by anyone else in Mma...

I think that's dead on. I'm old enough to remember all the arguments pre-UFC, ninja-vs-karate-vs-judo-vs-boxing-vs-TKD-vs-Kung-fu etc. No one actually knew what worked and what didn't, because style vs style fights were rare and the participants anything but representative (ie Joe Recreational karateka vs John Recreational Kung-fu guy or Bill Recreational judoka) and the accounts all anecdotal (remember this was before the Internet and Youtube) on the lines of "I know someone who knows someone who saw a Kung-fu master take out six boxers".

I don't think Rousey is creating much buzz for judo; as you say, its much later, and WMMA doesn't have the same impact as men's MMA. What Rousey is doing is, or so I'm told by a local MMA club owner, getting women to try MMA. Most don't stay long, but that's true of men who start MMA as well.

 

[Jonas g33k]

The new judo rules are not really popular among the judo guys in my gym. Actually my instructor likes it, but it's like everybody else complains about it.

About the lobby against MMA, it will eventually stop. Dana White has met French officials several times and MMA's popularity is growing. UFC is censored on French TV, but we still have it for free on TV with Belgian channels . It's not as big as in the US and most of the uneducated people thinks it's NHB, but society changes slowly but steadily.

 

[Kaffe]

Is not even close to the efect Royce has, Royce ran was on a time where ninja thought to be deadly, and saying that you trained in aikido was enough to make a Mexican drug cartel lord shit his pants, Royce separated the myth from reality, Rhonda is generating lots of buzz, but is just more of the same, outanding Mma fighter. Plus Royce did it in a Nhb setting all in one night and vs much bigger guys, the impact he had on people's eyes will never be archived by anyone else in Mma...

Yeah, didn't mean to directly compare them like that. What I meant was that even if judo had a Royce, the fundamental ruleset and politics we have now are still very, very problematic.

 

[lechien]

The new judo rules are not really popular among the judo guys in my gym. Actually my instructor likes it, but it's like everybody else complains about it.

About the lobby against MMA, it will eventually stop. Dana White has met French officials several times and MMA's popularity is growing. UFC is censored on French TV, but we still have it for free on TV with Belgian channels . It's not as big as in the US and most of the uneducated people thinks it's NHB, but society changes slowly but steadily.

What is the current situation between the French Judo Federation and the BJJ community?

Last I read years ago was that the Judo guys were getting all the government funds and the BJJ where left to go under the Karate Fed banner and pick up the scraps.