Is Judo dead?

For my part, I don't really care that much about the effectiveness aspect. At least locally, almost all real self-defense is about weapons, since the attacks are almost always done (according to both crime stats and talking to cops who train) with knives, bats, and sometimes firearms, and as often or not, two or more attackers.

The really bad part of the rule changes (since 1981, not just the recent ones) is that they've drained much of the creativity out of judo, making it a rule based sport where the ideal is to mirror some aesthetic to such an extent that it just isn't fun for most people, especially kids. I hear this as well from people who come from IJF clubs to our judo club (where what we do looks like 1970's judo - with the addition of leg locks from 1925 judo ... actually taught by a BJJ black belt but that's a detail :icon_lol: ) - they say it becomes fun again, because its about what you can come up with and do, not about what's illegal. You shouldn't have to be a judo-lawyer (one of my student's phrases when he changed clubs ... at ikkyu level) to do judo, but that's what its becoming.

This is especially true with kids, but a lot of adults say the same thing. And as others have pointed out, Greco has a very small following except for a few countries, because it too is so restricted that its just not fun for many people. Most people want to be able to roll around and try things naturally in grappling, to see what works, rather than be constrained by rules and form. Its the same reason kata isn't very popular in judo, its too restricted.

That lack of restriction is the best thing BJJ has going for it, and its a big part of why its more popular in North America. It feels more natural not to have so many illegal grips etc. In a lot of ways, BJJ looks more like traditional (say up to 1960) judo than modern judo does. Of course, I'm told the international BJJ federation is now beginning to make the same mistakes the IJF made, to cleans BJJ of elements it doesn't like, so maybe that won't last.

Totally agree. I don't fight in Judo tournaments anymore, and one of the big reasons is that it's way too restrictive and makes the game less fun. Restricting leg grabs, grips, and groundwork all restrict the creativity of the judoka in such a way that a very narrow spectrum of techniques become the only way to score. In the 70s, you could be a classical standup guy, a bent over wrestling/leg grab type guy, a sacrifice throwing ne waza expert, etc. and win a world title with any of those styles. That's not true anymore...now you have to be a standup, classically gripping fighter with either a good seio nage or a good uchi mata if you want to be world champ. A guy like Kashiwazaki (my personal favorite) probably wouldn't get very far today, sadly.

I also like the idea of adding leg locks. Way too ignored in North American/Western European grappling.
 
Royce was awesome, but the guy who made me really want to try grappling was Oleg Taktarov.
 
No argument with its effectiveness, but is Greco Roman wrestling even remotely popular in the US? We have one kid in our judo club who in addition to folkstyle competes in greco/freestyle tournaments, but I wouldn't have any clue where to find adult greco wrestling training and I doubt there are many places that offer it even for kids/teens. My impression (which could be off-base) was that FS/Greco was just something that a handful of folkstyle wrestlers trained in the offseason to try to make the Olympics. If it ends up being dropped from the Olympics, will there really be anyone in the US training Greco?

I live in md which isn't exactly a wrestling hot spot. When folkstyle season is over many of the larger clubs offer greco/freestyle practices. There are probably 4-5 clubs within 45 min that go that route. It's not as popular as folk but the opportunity is there if you want it. Trackwrestling.com lists most of the decent tournaments in the US. It's not hard to get into if you really want to. My kids are 8 and 10 so we just stick with folkstyle and and occasional no gi tourney every so often.
 
Judo is just not fun.

It hurts like hell and people (at least where I'm from) teach it very poorly. I remember doing randori on my first day and not having clue what to do. I was like, "are we supposed to be dancing?" and then flying in the air. I was like, "this isn't fun. I don't know anything."

i remember rolling in bjj my first day. we started from our knees like most clubs, and basically did knee wrestling to fight for position, which i thought was weird, and still do to this day (starting standing or in guard seems like it would more sense). then a guy i just met got uncomfortably close, wrapping his legs all up around me. then swept, knee on belly, mount, submit. rinse and repeat.

the first day, if not handled right, isn't fun in either judo or bjj.
 
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