Is Judo dead?

Q mystic said:
Judoka have adapt experience for years and years already to wrestling, shunyata. Since then, we have also seen judoka in mma and I still don't see any indication of why they need to adapt to nogi, at judo. They do just fine there from observation. It sounds like you would say wrestling has to allow subs.(?)


It's too easy to adapt to nogi. I think many are trying to throw w/o gi before they even learn to thro in gi and that's an issue.

But, I understand that you think it would help memberships if judo offered nogi. Fair enuff.
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I still think Judo clubs are not open at the idea of nogi training.
 
lechien said:
I still think Judo clubs are not open at the idea of nogi training.
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me either.:icon_lol: Not typically. Sometimes tho, when they are only running 3/4 classes/wk, they'll tell you to, 'sure, go ahead, join wrestling'. Maybe even refer wrestling coaches here.

Still, even tho my initial question wasn't to ask to ask 'why' judo is dying, it's nice to know what some think. Which is legit.
 
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Q mystic said:
me either.:icon_lol: Sometimes tho when they are only running 3 classes/wk, they'll tell you to, 'sure, go ahead, join wrestling'. Maybe even refer wrestling coaches here.

Still, even tho it wasn't my initial question to ask 'why' judo is dying, it's nice to know what some think, which is legit.
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It is dying because the older generation in charge of its development have not realise the change in the society.

The most organised one (maybe interested into financial gain) are concentrating on kids judo.

Hell, my friend went to an annual meeting and enquired about a specific judo camp..just to be told that those camps were just for kids.

Then on the other hand, you have the old cavalry that would cater for the senior groups.

Well it leaves the middle generation that watches the UFC and obviously would like to compete in submission grappling/nogi.

Are they given an opportunity and support to grow into what they would like to do?

I read about top level organisers using federation money to travel the world to update themselves in the new IJF rules.

While the others are complaining that such funds should be used to funds young upcoming competitors etc..
 
one of my friends wants to open an old men judo club that would specialise in ne waza because it would be less taxing on the knees and back of the old guys.

it is not a bad idea at all.
 
No, it's not. Judo is still much more widely practiced than BJJ, though that gap is closing. There are a lot more kids doing Judo than BJJ, a lot more older black belts who still go to practice in Judo than BJJ, I see a lot more women doing Judo than BJJ, probably the only demographic where BJJ wins out is 18-40 year old men, many of whom probably got into it from watching MMA. If you count MMA enthusiasts who do BJJ as part of their training the number is higher, but pure gi BJJ I highly doubt more people do than Judo in the US.

The other thing about Judo is that it can be very hard to find...it's almost always not for profit, and I know very few Judo clubs that do much advertising. But there are a lot of small clubs out there with a few black belts teaching a bunch of kids.
 
Q mystic said:
Judoka have adapt experience for years and years already to wrestling, shunyata. Since then, we have also seen judoka in mma and I still don't see any indication of why they need to adapt to nogi, at judo. They do just fine there from observation. It sounds like you would say wrestling has to allow subs.(?)


It's too easy to adapt to nogi. I think many are trying to throw w/o gi before they even learn to thro in gi and that's an issue.

But, I understand that you think it would help memberships if judo offered nogi. Fair enuff.
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You misconstrue.

I grew up in the gi, and I see an immense potential for an evolution of no gi grappling and mma by incorporating strong judo. Yet, I see very few judoka in comparison to practitioners of other grappling styles who want to explore this area.
 
shunyata said:
You misconstrue.

I grew up in the gi, and I see an immense potential for an evolution of no gi grappling and mma by incorporating strong judo. Yet, I see very few judoka in comparison to practitioners of other grappling styles who want to explore this area.
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I am sure they exist but they have to move out of their dojo to do that.
 
lechien said:
It is dying because the older generation in charge of its development have not realized the change in the society.
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this. a million times this. Judo is bleeding out from self-inflicted wounds.
 
richp860 said:
You've much to learn, young Jedi. I'd be rather training with Tony Blauer than any MMA camp for Combatives/self-defense purposes any day of the week.

The problem with your claim is that it goes against years of research and empirical evidence.
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the only thing research and empirical evidence have told us over the years is that all these self-proclaimed self-defence experts can't fight for shit
 
shunyata said:
You misconstrue.

I grew up in the gi, and I see an immense potential for an evolution of no gi grappling and mma by incorporating strong judo. Yet, I see very few judoka in comparison to practitioners of other grappling styles who want to explore this area.
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I'm of the opposite. I did grow in gi; however, most of my sensei were heavy wrestlers. I would agree with you that this has gone virtually unrecognized. A nogi judo game would be like the soviet freestylers w/o sambo/judo.
 
KarateFist said:
the only thing research and empirical evidence have told us over the years is that all these self-proclaimed self-defence experts can't fight for shit
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Word. I saw the first 3 UFCs. Ninjas ain't shit.
 
Uchi Mata said:
No, it's not. Judo is still much more widely practiced than BJJ, though that gap is closing. There are a lot more kids doing Judo than BJJ, a lot more older black belts who still go to practice in Judo than BJJ, I see a lot more women doing Judo than BJJ, probably the only demographic where BJJ wins out is 18-40 year old men, many of whom probably got into it from watching MMA. If you count MMA enthusiasts who do BJJ as part of their training the number is higher, but pure gi BJJ I highly doubt more people do than Judo in the US.

The other thing about Judo is that it can be very hard to find...it's almost always not for profit, and I know very few Judo clubs that do much advertising. But there are a lot of small clubs out there with a few black belts teaching a bunch of kids.
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More widely practiced? I am guessing that even if we included women and children and older fellas that it wouldn't be.

I see you are from Colorado but do you believe that there are more judoka in US/Canada than bjjers?

It's what I'm asking and I see it a 30:1 ratio for bjj over judo here in sw Ontario.
 
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oyaji poi said:
This is all true, but the convenience comes with a huge price tag: It costs the same to train judo for a year as it does at many bjj places for a month.

$100-200 a year for fees is normal for judo, and also normal as monthly bjj fees.

The coaches are usually volunteers as well.
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Sure. As I said, one is run like an actual business, one is not. And lets remember we're talking about why the expensive one is more popular...
 
Here in NYC, there are many BJJ schools. Some of the TMA schools have added BJJ programs. Other TMA schools have completed revamped and starting offering more progressive training entirely, like MT, Boxing, stick fighting, and BJJ.

But there is still enough judo schools too. And TMA's like TKD are still going strong. They still getting lots of kids. Like I remember Sitan Gym in Astoria. There old location is gone and is now a TKD school brand new. So there is still a market. I think Judo should try and focus on getting kids too. Maybe they can copy BJJ and try to co-venture with the TMA schools. Try and a judo program in the TMA schools for the children, and focus less on attracting the adrenaline and testosterone fueled MMA/BJJ adult demographic.
 
richp860 said:
You've much to learn, young Jedi. I'd be rather training with Tony Blauer than any MMA camp for Combatives/self-defense purposes any day of the week.

The problem with your claim is that it goes against years of research and empirical evidence.
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do I?

am the jedi one though you believe in SELF DEFENSE systems LMFAOOOOO!!!

show me one single freaking prove of a self defense master applying his super jedi powers, ONE, theres got to be around 1000000000000 videos of street fights where people were compromised, show me one.

I on the other hand, rather believe in simple mortal techniques, you know good old punching or grappling, that seems to work quite fine, even against other trained fighters, im sure they are not as good at street fighting as your self defense instructor...

is this your instructor?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Qny42bBfM

or may be this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS3m7r5xwlY

shit this is some serius selfdefense stuff hu?
 
Q mystic said:
More widely practiced? I am guessing that even if we included women and children and older fellas that it wouldn't be.

I see you are from Colorado but do you believe that there are more judoka in US/Canada than bjjers?

It's what I'm asking and I see it a 30:1 ratio for bjj over judo here in sw Ontario.
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It's definitely not 30:1. Of course, if you ask a person who just does Judo, they'd probably say that a lot more people did Judo. I do both, and have done both in several parts of the US. There are pockets where there's more BJJ, but on the whole there's a lot more Judo. There are just so many more clubs across the country, BJJ is still pretty regional in terms of having a lot of practitioners. But BJJ is growing while Judo is shrinking, so in 20 years there will be a lot more BJJ guys than Judo guys around.

I can't speak for Canada, I've never lived there. Canada has a decent Judo tradition, especially in BC (with all the Japanese immigrants). You could always see how many clubs are registered in your national and provincial federations...I'm willing to bet it's a lot more than you'd think.
 
Q mystic said:
including prison gaurds, cops, and military? These guys don't punch out 'bar fighters', and bar fighters are tuff. To think they can't fight is gross. I'm all scrapper and these guys aren't and I'll tell you that that they are furking tuff. Very, and I don't doubt anyone that denies this is under 30 yrs old. They're fit and they don't play like scrappers. Again, they're fit, they have families, and they are constantly dealing with real bad, bad asses.

Not saying you guys are wrong about the scrapping part but it sure as hell isn't worth insulting the alternative.

Let's lose the, 'who isn't tuff' deal.
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those are some tuff ass motherfuckers, but his sd crap inst what makes them tough, is their nature, same as a rugby player, get in a fight with some of those monsters, yeah good fucking luck unless you are some stud like them..

but to think a 170 pounds SD instructor is going to kick some trained fighter or even some tough dude just with his jedi techniques is uterly ridiculous.
 
Uchi Mata said:
It's definitely not 30:1. Of course, if you ask a person who just does Judo, they'd probably say that a lot more people did Judo. I do both, and have done both in several parts of the US. There are pockets where there's more BJJ, but on the whole there's a lot more Judo. There are just so many more clubs across the country, BJJ is still pretty regional in terms of having a lot of practitioners. But BJJ is growing while Judo is shrinking, so in 20 years there will be a lot more BJJ guys than Judo guys around.

I can't speak for Canada, I've never lived there. Canada has a decent Judo tradition, especially in BC (with all the Japanese immigrants). You could always see how many clubs are registered in your national and provincial federations...I'm willing to bet it's a lot more than you'd think.
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20 years? I think thats too much man, in 10 years, there will be much more bjj than judo in the states... if MMA keeps growing of course.
 
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