Is it smart to learn 10th planet techniques first?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Hetottai**, Oct 17, 2010.

  1. Hetottai**

    Hetottai** Blue Belt

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    Ok. So I've been to a few competitions and I see a bunch of 10th planet guys get beat for one simple reason. They when they end up on bottom, they go straight for half-guard and lockdown. They don't utilize the basic guard at all. if they are not in half-guard they go for rubber guard. it gets predictable and all the other teams know how to handle it.

    now, i love 10th planet stuff. but i think it's smart to train with a more traditional school first. what do you guys think? could be just bad instructors.
     
  2. newerest

    newerest Purple Belt

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    I was one of those guys. I thought all I needed was rubber guard for full guard, and lockdown for half guard

    I was so wrong. I would use the lockdown when I should be using standard figure four, or trying to go to rubber guard without the foot on the hip and not being hipped out correctly.

    learning the basics first would have greatly helped my progress.

    I wouldn't say to not learn tenth planet stuff at first, but you have to realize that the basics are called basics for a reason. you should be spending like 80% of your training time with the basics, 20% for tenth planet stuff.

    and even then you should only be doing basic lockdown sweeps and transitions.
     
  3. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    If he taps then it is good Jiu Jitsu.
     
  4. pl4zm4

    pl4zm4 White Belt

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    Every school has crappy players. The 10th planet ones just stand out because their techniques are unique. Also, are the ones you are seeing from 10th planet schools (there aren't very many) or just people who studied the 10th planet books. From what I understand the 10th planet "moons" still teach BJJ basics.
     
  5. 34st

    34st White Belt

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    ^This. A rather sig worthy comment. Thank you.
     
  6. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    "If he taps, it is good Jiu Jitsu".

    It is a quote from Carlson Gracie Snr which was his reply to his (nephew?) Cesar Gracie's question: "how is my JJ?".
     
  7. Freezing Winds**

    Freezing Winds** Green Belt

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    this is kinda bothersome. why do they have techs that are unique?

    is it because they do not work?

    remember you used to see basically ATOS were the only ones using 50/50, so that was unique at the time.
    now you see alliance use it, you see ryan hall use it, and etc.
    They started using it because they saw that it did work.

    just my 2 cents.
     
  8. sha

    sha Geekjitsu Black Belt

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    I don't think it's a good idea to learn 10th Planet stuff first, for the simple reason that their approach is very narrow and very targetted on a few systems. When you're a beginner, I think it's better to cover a lot of different moves instead of focusing too much on a single position.
     
  9. newerest

    newerest Purple Belt

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    roger gracie used rubber guard against xande.

    he has also used lockdown before. werdum used the lockdown against cyborg...
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2010
  10. Jinzumkei

    Jinzumkei Rock El Columbian

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    I dunno. I'm not a big fan of lockdown, it's probably a better idea to learn how get back to guard or sweep from half guard rather than ld.
     
  11. chunglii

    chunglii No Me Duele Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I'd say go train at another non-10th planet school before training there.
     
  12. UFile

    UFile Purple Belt

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    It's submission grappling. Jiu Jitsu elitism is retarded. I know it's not yours. It's Carlson's or someones.
     
  13. PerfectBalance

    PerfectBalance Yellow Belt

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    Interesting because I happen to train at a 10th planet school and it's full of wrestlers. There is no such thing as rubber guard at my gym. Wrestler's posture and break it or like myself use Leo Viera style passing. I think people get mixed up when they think about 10th planet. Eddie Bravo is the only real rubber guard influence. In the 4 months I have been training there. I have only had rubber guard applied on my once to a omoplata which I escaped without giving up position for the sweep. The reason I train there is because my particular gym focuses on footlocks which I will be expected to learn for Adv Division. Never been heel hooked at my other Gracie style gym, but I've been heel hooked by every mediocre guy who couldn't pass my guard. You guys take 10th planet stuff way too seriously. To each there own oh by the way I pull half guard or go straight to half guard from butterflys or open and I would stomp your shit with my old school sweep or deep half. Anyway on another note 10th planet is huge on the D'arce and especially from half guard or deep half.
     
  14. bora y

    bora y Purple Belt

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    stop saying roger used rubber guard vs xande. you know that's not accurate.
     
  15. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    The truth is in the pudding.

    Use wathever works.

    Do not stop at one style.

    If he taps, then it is good Jiu Jitsu!!!

    If you can use EB JJ style and make it works, use it!
     
  16. boboplata***

    boboplata*** Banned Banned

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    judging from the number of 10th planet schools & their students to the ratio of those who medalled in adcc & mundials...
     
  17. MonkeyNuts!

    MonkeyNuts! Rear Naked Poker

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    Well people here are sensitive when it comes to 10th planet pjj for good reason

    1.) Misconceptions that weed somehow helps BJJ training.
    2.) Brandon Quick and Ari Bolden.
    3.) Stirs up the gi vs no gi argument.
    4.) White belts at bjj schools read Bravo's books and become obsessed with unlocking the secrets in print rather than focusing on what their own instructors are trying to teach them.

    At the same time Perfect Balance, you are quite correct in that people start making all sorts of assumptions about actual training at a 10th planet school (note all the above has nothing to do with 10th planet academies themselves), which from what I understand is not limited to what Bravo's books show.
     
  18. fourfif**

    fourfif** Banned Banned

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    meh. they took 2nd behind Cesar Gracie's team at the Gracie open. It's not mundials but still. They do all right.
     
  19. newerest

    newerest Purple Belt

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    considering how many 10th planet schools are around in the first place. there's like 1-2 in my state.
     
  20. pl4zm4

    pl4zm4 White Belt

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    Just curious, what school do you train that that produces adcc & mundials champions? Last I saw 10th planet in competition was the 10th Planet Moon from Delaware did well at one of the NAGA events, I know at least one of them got gold.

    Btw, I am not affiliated with 10th planet in anyway. I just like how they try to think outside the box. It is true it's no substitute for solid fundamentals, and I doubt any actually 10th Planet member will argue that. But for every gimmick move they come up with like the Turkey Wrap, they come up with something new an inventive. I know the 10th Planet Vaporizer Lock has become one of my bread and butter submissions.
     

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