Is it Bad That I don't Understand De La Riva?

[LS1Rx7]

I'm a new blue belt and I was rolling with someone from another school. They kept working the de la riva. I kept a wide base to make it tougher for them and was able to either step over the outstretched leg and pretty much fall in into half guard, or create a little space and knee slide right through.

Now I'm sure that people who are good at it would smoke me but I don't think there's one person in our school who uses it as a go-to. I'm sure there are guys who use it, but it seems very rare in our gym.

I play a lot of open guard too and I never ever go to the de la riva, honestly I don't even understand the benefits of it. Anyone feel like they could explain when or why they use it?

Thanks guys

 

[TheHereticJay]

I see it as you had an instructor who's main goal was not the latest advancements, but solid fundamentals. This can be good or bad. All depends on which side of the "Advanced basics vs Flashy moves" argument you're on.

So, how are your basics?

 

[buhriyon]

De la Riva is a great guard position, but it requires several key components to succeed; one of those things is effectively using the foot on the leg and being active and not trying to use it as a stalling position.

 

[Jits420]

I play DLR and RDLR a lot and I think it helps me conserve energy and get a lot of back takes. Mostly I'm using the leverage against their knee to obtain good grips and off balance, then either hit a single or go inverted.

DLR and RDLR has helped me slow down big, aggressive top players that have a lot more strength and size than me. And they can easily out muscle my arms, but not my legs!

And keeping a wide base is good, that is when he needs to stop shoving the berimbolo down your throat and come up on a single, or do the old school DLR sweeps. i.e. transfer to both feet at the back of their knees/hands on feet sweeps, or get a good belt hold and start climbing up to the back lol, even switch to a kneebar, sweep and sub. All kinds of cool stuff, just gotta play with it.

Examples of the oldschool style DLR sweep ->>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IdyQhCEEgjE

I don't think DLR or RDLR are mandatory parts of anyone's game, but its good to know the possibilities to help improve your defense and give you some tricks if your "usual" game isn't working.

 

[LS1Rx7]

I see it as you had an instructor who's main goal was not the latest advancements, but solid fundamentals. This can be good or bad. All depends on which side of the "Advanced basics vs Flashy moves" argument you're on.

So, how are your basics?

I don't know, good question. I think they are pretty good. I am deff a position over submission guy. Even in situations like tonight where I have no real formal training on de la riva I still felt like I had enough mat time to understand at a deeper level what they were trying to do and basics on how to counter it.

I know our schools focus is not specifically competition Jiu jitsu although we do compete and generally our good guys will win at NAGA, Grapplers etc. I know my instructor likes to keep our knees and backs safe so he doesn't teach a ton of spider guard, inverted guard ect. He also likes to focus on Jiu jitsu that can translate to MMA, or a real fight. So, he would prefer us to work take downs rather than pulling guard if possible.

Just some example to give you an idea.


Jits420 - I have seen that sweep before while looking at DLR and Berimbolo vids to get a better feel for it. I do get the back from guard sometimes but I initiate it off the arm drag, aka: MG style.

 

[itheuser]

Some people are good at it, some people are not.

 

[Calibur]

I think it comes down to how their partners pass guard. In an environment where everyone stands to pass, than de la riva will be very common. Almost necessary.

If everyone stays low to pass, or uses pressure than the DLR isn't as crucial, yet still viable.

If you train Jiu Jitsu fror real life application than you understand the value of getting the top position. If you take someone down or sweep them you don't give them space to stand. That's why BJJ with a strong MMA component doesn't have a ton of guys who pass standing. You need to stay low for GNP.

If you're doing a BJJ comp than "superior position" is ambiguous and the passing style reflects that.

I mean. Why fight for top and risk losing 2 points when you can fight for BOTTOM and risk nothing and than fight for top and risk nothing but GAIN two points for achieving the same position and lose nothing once you let your opponent stand. You can just get the inferior position again, sweep your opponent into the same superior position except this time you get points, than disengage by standing and not allowing your opponent to regain the position he had. If he stands you sit and play the game again.

DLR facilitates that style well.

 

[bfmv300]

Yes it's bad. Give back your blue belt and your instructor should give you back a two-stripe white belt.

No it's not bad, but it's one of the more common open guards that is being utilized for more "modern" jiu-jitsu techniques.

I play DLR a lot in my gym because everyone stands up to pass. It's a great way to stop their forward progress by using your hook to create pressure on their knee (off-balancing them) and using your other foot to keep their back leg away.

The most effective DLR guard is an active one. To be a good DLR player you need to know your options from that guard (berimbolo, overhead sweep, DLR back-take, sleeve-grip sweeps on both sleeves, and of course single-legs). I always alternate between all of these options until I find something effective against my opponent. Here's the best video to look at if you're starting DLR:

Rafa showing the overhead sweep, single-leg and DLR back-take

 

[shizzybrane]

I think it comes down to how their partners pass guard. In an environment where everyone stands to pass, than de la riva will be very common. Almost necessary.

If everyone stays low to pass, or uses pressure than the DLR isn't as crucial, yet still viable.

If you train Jiu Jitsu fror real life application than you understand the value of getting the top position. If you take someone down or sweep them you don't give them space to stand. That's why BJJ with a strong MMA component doesn't have a ton of guys who pass standing. You need to stay low for GNP.

If you're doing a BJJ comp than "superior position" is ambiguous and the passing style reflects that.

I mean. Why fight for top and risk losing 2 points when you can fight for BOTTOM and risk nothing and than fight for top and risk nothing but GAIN two points for achieving the same position and lose nothing once you let your opponent stand. You can just get the inferior position again, sweep your opponent into the same superior position except this time you get points, than disengage by standing and not allowing your opponent to regain the position he had. If he stands you sit and play the game again.

DLR facilitates that style well.

Great post. Im not the TS, but thanks.

 

[LemonHerbWRX]

The great thing about this sport is that it's so complex we can all be unique. I personally may use DLR a ton and not think of it as advanced or obscure, but I hardly ever do anything with butterfly other than half butterfly.

 

[Einarr]

I don't use the DLR for the simple reason that if someone stands against me I'll create space and stand up myself, or go for a takedown from the knees - the only guard I play when someone is standing is sitting guard or shin-to-shin sitting guard basically as a transitional stage between being on the ground and standing or shooting. So, I can't say that I know much about DLR either except a few passes/defensive concepts (I'm also a blue belt). I think you could easily become a black belt without ever having played DLR or RDLR, so don't worry about it.

 

[yovan]

I play a lot of open guard too and I never ever go to the de la riva, honestly I don't even understand the benefits of it. Anyone feel like they could explain when or why they use it?

I believe DLR is the easiest path to te back, which in turn, is the easiest way to finish.

What types of open guard do you play w/out DLR/RDLR?

 

[2008]

I don't know, good question. I think they are pretty good. I am deff a position over submission guy. Even in situations like tonight where I have no real formal training on de la riva I still felt like I had enough mat time to understand at a deeper level what they were trying to do and basics on how to counter it.

I know our schools focus is not specifically competition Jiu jitsu although we do compete and generally our good guys will win at NAGA, Grapplers etc. I know my instructor likes to keep our knees and backs safe so he doesn't teach a ton of spider guard, inverted guard ect. He also likes to focus on Jiu jitsu that can translate to MMA, or a real fight. So, he would prefer us to work take downs rather than pulling guard if possible.

Just some example to give you an idea.


Jits420 - I have seen that sweep before while looking at DLR and Berimbolo vids to get a better feel for it. I do get the back from guard sometimes but I initiate it off the arm drag, aka: MG style.

Wow. Your BJJ personality sounds similar to mines and sounds like we train at the same gym(joking) because my coach teaches the same way or has the same philosophy with training. My coach is definitely a top player, he says to look for the sweeps, get top position, and submit from there.

I'm the same way too in looking for 'position before submission' while other white belts I roll(not saying TS is a white belt) with muscle their way for a submission. I'm looking for quality rolling than quantity taps.

I know not everyone has all the BJJ answers and I can't expect my coach to know everything but the bad thing about his philosophy is not everyone will be a strong or natural top player like he is.

Take me for example I'm a shorter guy and chubby so many guys I roll against are either bigger than me in terms of size or they are smaller/lighter but have quickness and athleticism on their side. I'm usually going against 'bigger vs. athleticism'. Unless the student is totally new with no experience I don't get to play top game as often so I end up playing guard. So as a result I'm starting to develop a spider game/open guard game which my coach does not teach. I'm learning on my own and doing things with trial and error. He is also more of a closed guard guy(which I know is classic BJJ) but lately the past few months people have been breaking and passing my closed guard pretty easily so I had to do something different that gave me a fighting chance hence playing with open guard.

But I want to use the open guard game to get the sweep, play top, then submit. When I get a proper side control and mount position I'm decent at being heavy.

But same here no one at my school plays any exotic guard game or use their legs a lot, its mostly staying low and close.

 

[NateTx4112]

I don't use the DLR for the simple reason that if someone stands against me I'll create space and stand up myself, or go for a takedown from the knees - the only guard I play when someone is standing is sitting guard or shin-to-shin sitting guard basically as a transitional stage between being on the ground and standing or shooting. So, I can't say that I know much about DLR either except a few passes/defensive concepts (I'm also a blue belt). I think you could easily become a black belt without ever having played DLR or RDLR, so don't worry about it.

Good post ...wait what...really? Are you serious?

 

[Newcastle]

I don't use the DLR for the simple reason that if someone stands against me I'll create space and stand up myself, or go for a takedown from the knees - the only guard I play when someone is standing is sitting guard or shin-to-shin sitting guard basically as a transitional stage between being on the ground and standing or shooting. So, I can't say that I know much about DLR either except a few passes/defensive concepts (I'm also a blue belt). I think you could easily become a black belt without ever having played DLR or RDLR, so don't worry about it.

Sounds like you don't like using it because you're not very good at it.

 

[Corrosion]

Pretty much everyone at my gym passes on their knees, so I've never really used De la Riva or RDLR, and either has someone at my academy.

In my last tournament however, someone used DLR against me, and I had no idea how to defend against it.

 

[ILikeDogging]

I don't use the DLR for the simple reason that if someone stands against me I'll create space and stand up myself, or go for a takedown from the knees - the only guard I play when someone is standing is sitting guard or shin-to-shin sitting guard basically as a transitional stage between being on the ground and standing or shooting. So, I can't say that I know much about DLR either except a few passes/defensive concepts (I'm also a blue belt). I think you could easily become a black belt without ever having played DLR or RDLR, so don't worry about it.

!?!?! 'I'll create space and stand up myself, or go for a takedown from the knees' !?!?

This may work against some novices at your gym but I don't think it's a viable tactic for developing your BJJ to a higher level. You're going to have to play guard. I'm not saying you need to know DLR - RDLR - Spider - X - Deep Half etc in's and out's but you are going to need to actually play guard.

 

[Darkslide632]

My instructor is a DLR 4th degree, so I have plenty of exposure to it even when I'm trying to pass on my knees, haha. I use it any time I can get my foot under their leg. They don't need to be standing.

Here are some videos of my instructor and De La Riva when he came up for a seminar last year. Tough to get any better insight on the position than from the man who invented it.





I tapped about .5 seconds after this picture was taken.

 

[Calibur]

!?!?! 'I'll create space and stand up myself, or go for a takedown from the knees' !?!?

This may work against some novices at your gym but I don't think it's a viable tactic for developing your BJJ to a higher level. You're going to have to play guard. I'm not saying you need to know DLR - RDLR - Spider - X - Deep Half etc in's and out's but you are going to need to actually play guard.

He never said he didn't play guard.

Anyway, the concept of getting to your feet isn't new and very common at middle heavyweight and higher categories.

 

[Armwrap]

Calibur on point, as usual.

Why not learn it if you are doing other gi-based open guards? I think it is essential to at least know the offbalancing/twisting motion of the DLR hook works so you can defend.