Is it Bad That I don't Understand De La Riva?

Where I did most of my training the emphasis was more for fighting, so dlr and spider were taught but no one was particularly good at them. My instructor disliked standing passes as he would just stand up himself so most people passed from the knees.

Now I'm at more of a sport jiu jitsu place where everyone stands to pass and a lot of people play DLR or RDLR. At first I had trouble dealing with it but now I've gotten much more comfortable. I've been playing around with standing passes a lot but I still like the idea behind passing on the knees more.
 
It's not bad.

As a guy with long legs, DLR changed my open guard game completely. It's a fantastic setup for a lot of attacks, but also serves as a great way to keep very good passers off balance and in your guard.

I use it when people are passing sitting and standing. If I can cut the angle and get the hook in, I feel like I'm in business. I've also found that now that people respect my DLR guard and are working hard to break my grips, I'm getting the single leg ALL the time.

I think it's a very dynamic open guard that is worth developing, but it is not an absolute necessity, like say, a good half guard.
 
NateTx4112 said:
Good post ...wait what...really? Are you serious?
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Yeah. Creating space, defending yourself and standing up when you're grounded and your opponent is standing = fundamental, old school Gracie JJ tactic. Learning to create space and stand up when an opponent is pressuring you down is a useful skill in itself which, like any skill, needs to be worked on.

Newcastle said:
Sounds like you don't like using it because you're not very good at it.
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It's not that, I just think in a standing vs grounded situation the standing player has the advantage (which is precisely why they stand) so I'd rather not give them that advantage and as I train Judo and Wrestling I can engage my opponent standing without having too much to worry about from the average BJJer (and if they are good I'll try to throw with Sumi Gaeshi or Tomoe Nage and if that fails I'll turn it into a guard pull, even if they do throw me it's no different points-wise to a guard pass so it's a perfectly reasonable tactic).

You're right though; my DLR isn't good because I don't play it.

ILikeDogging said:
!?!?! 'I'll create space and stand up myself, or go for a takedown from the knees' !?!?

This may work against some novices at your gym but I don't think it's a viable tactic for developing your BJJ to a higher level. You're going to have to play guard. I'm not saying you need to know DLR - RDLR - Spider - X - Deep Half etc in's and out's but you are going to need to actually play guard.
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I never said I don't play guard; if we're starting on our knees I actually tend to prefer to start in guard and sweep. I play mainly Butterfly Guard and Closed Guard, and Halfguard and Feet-on-Hips as mainly transitional positions. I just don't like playing guard against standing opponents if I can stand, and if they pressure me well I play sitting guard and aim to catch a leg. Lern two reed, pleez.

As for high level BJJ: Andre Galvao has actually said something similar - that he prefers to get on top and stay on top rather than spend a lot of time playing guard, and I've seen him make space and stand against a standing opponent quite a few times. It's also one of the most frequent uses of the guard in modern MMA.

Calibur said:
He never said he didn't play guard.

Anyway, the concept of getting to your feet isn't new and very common at middle heavyweight and higher categories.
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Calibur to the rescue! :)

Exactly, and at 94kg I am a heavy weight.
 
I have been doing a lot of technical standup to standing/takedown from closed guard. Underutilized technique IMHO.

I think it is debatable what kind of guards really are "essential". Marcelo does not play spider, DLR or half and he does ok. In no-gi, Weidman or Rustam do not play any type of guard.
 
I'm at super heavy and I play dlr. you need to at least be knowledgeable about it and know the game. Doesn't mean you have to play it.

If you just ignore it you eventually will get hit at a tournament where you can't pass from the knees and you stand up. I very rarely have my guard passed from the knees so everyone stands up in my guard and I needed to develop my DLR. learning the DLR also means knowing how to defend against the DLR so I guess I went all that way to say you need to know it simply so you know how to defend it.
 
I don't know if DLR is as fancy as you all are making it out to be, just kicking the far leg out and sitting up on a single is more simple than most other things.
 
NateTx4112 said:
I'm at super heavy and I play dlr. you need to at least be knowledgeable about it and know the game. Doesn't mean you have to play it.

If you just ignore it you eventually will get hit at a tournament where you can't pass from the knees and you stand up. I very rarely have my guard passed from the knees so everyone stands up in my guard and I needed to develop my DLR. learning the DLR also means knowing how to defend against the DLR so I guess I went all that way to say you need to know it simply so you know how to defend it.
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So, I'm right in saying to the OP "I think you could easily become a black belt without ever having played DLR or RDLR"?

I've been shown and drilled it in class and as I said I "know a few passes" and "defensive concepts" (keep a low staggered base, remove the hook first and foremost, break/avoid their grips, et cetera) and I spar against guys who use it - I just don't personally use it myself. Never did I suggest that OP shouldn't learn to defend against it.

I really don't see how or why you took such great issue with what I said.
 
I play De La Riva a lot.

I do it because it is fun.

I have success with it.
 
I think that as a blue belt/ early purple belt, you can get away with not knowing the DLR. However, at some point, you need to know the DLR, even if you dont like it. Why, because you need to know how to defend these positions and to know what your opponent is looking for.

Look at all the high level guys now. At some point, they are all using some sort of RDLR or DLR. Look at the Buchecha and Rodolfo fight as an example.

I just started learning/using DLR after 5 years of training. It has significantly improved my game
 
No I still feel you should be able to at least play one of the most used open guards in BJJ before easily getting a black belt.

Just my opinion though.
 
Ice 9 Cobra said:
I don't know if DLR is as fancy as you all are making it out to be, just kicking the far leg out and sitting up on a single is more simple than most other things.
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I agree i haven't been training that long and DLR/RDLR are really simple to me and come much more naturally to me. I feel as it is really basic, and from beginning using that about 2 months ago i've learned to just feel where someones base is. I don't understand i know people that consider DLR fancy but X guard not so much.
 
If you are not familiar with dlr guard and spider guard don't expect to ever do well at an IBJJF tournament.
 
mtruitt76 said:
If you are not familiar with dlr guard and spider guard don't expect to ever do well at an IBJJF tournament.
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Only half true.

You don't need to learn how to play it. You just need to learn how to shut it down.
Yes, playing it will help develop insights to defeating it, but nobody has time to master every guard.
 
I understand what Einarr is saying and I've got a lot of guys at my gym that believe the same thing and never play RDLR or DLR.

The funny thing is, knowing this, I often am in combat base(one knee up/one knee down) and will 'pull their legs' into DLR position, which they grab onto tightly and then I easily knee slide pass them.. Over and over and they HATE the fact I pull them into half guard/DLR position and force them to play it.

If I know you do not like a position then I'm gonna exploit it, over and over. You refuse to learn and experiment, you'll only know the most basic ideas and setups, so that makes it A LOT easier for me to beat you in those positions..Why would I jump into your "death grip" closed guard or a position you always play? Unless you can force it on me, I'm gonna make you as awkward and uncomfortable as possible, opening up a ton of possibilities for me because I see and learn the WHOLE game of JiuJitsu, as much as I possibly can..Whether its inverted guards, 50/50, catch wresting moves, whatever, I'm open to learning.
 
^^^

If you replaced the word knee slide pass with leg lock people on this forum would treat you like you ate babies.

People got by for years without using DLR. Ryron, Rener, Rickson. None of them are known for it, but we all know they have a counter for your strategy that doesn't involve an elaborate guard.

If you are a top player you fight for top and if you get swept you have enough contact from the bottom to play non DLR/spider guards.

DLR is only essential for butt scooters since they put themselves on their own ass at a distance from their opponent.

Even than ive never seen Marcelo agarcia revert to it. I advocate learning DLR only because I advocate learning everything. That's an uncommon way of thinking in the BJJ community so I don't know why people feel like harping on this one thing when people obviously get away with not using it and have succeeded without it for years.

DLR is only important to supplement a style that no one HAS to use.
 
I rolled with my instructor and we practiced leg locks. I like to play DLR and sometimes I give upper belts some problems with it. I got destroyed with toe holds, knee bars and rolling calf crushers. It really gave me a good insight how vulnerable your legs are if you just hang in the DLR position.

Oh and I hate the knee slide/reverse half guard stuff counters to DLR also. Cant you just stand still and let me work!
 
I use DLR because I use a lot of open-guard and I'm a bit of a butt-scooter. I like using it and it's effective, but I think I could've gone without using it. It's not 100% necessary, but I think if you want to play any open guard you should learn as much open-guard as possible and drill it, and that includes DLR. I think learning to shut it down is definitely necessary, however.
 
Vitamin C said:
Only half true.

You don't need to learn how to play it. You just need to learn how to shut it down.
Yes, playing it will help develop insights to defeating it, but nobody has time to master every guard.
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Thag was what I was intending to infer. You don't have to play these type of guards, but you better not be surprised by them.
 
mtruitt76 said:
Thag was what I was intending to infer. You don't have to play these type of guards, but you better not be surprised by them.
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I dig it then.

There is the legitimate concern of how to successfully learn how to shut down a game that no one in the gym plays.
 
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