is boxing considered as a martial art?

[jk_08]

Kabuki, i don't think your are quite getting what i'm trying to say....

I never said training in boxing or sportive Taekwondo can't help you be conditioned for a real fight... and i'm definately not saying that just because a Martial Art has a competition part to it, or a sportive part, that it is not a Martial Art...
I have competed in both TKD competitions and boxing and i believe its a valuble thing and experience for martial artists to do, and as a means of developiment ....
Yes TKD is a martial art.. and just because you are competing and training for a TKD competition, doesn't mean your not a martial artist...
I understand that Judo, Karate competitions, and TKD ones, were developed as a means for practising skills in a close to realistic manner.. Judo coming from jiu jitsu, and the others from themselves... .thats originaly why they came about (as far as i know).. but in a way that is safe etc for the competitors... so i totally agree with you,
"The Sport aspect of a practice simply doesn't detract from whether or not something qualifies as a Martial Art"

People may start Boxing as a means to defend themselves (in real fights)... But i don't think the reason for someone starting defines whether it is a Martial Art or not.. I started Judo to enhance my martial arts skills (to be used in real fights)... i had trained in BJJ for years, Judo was a something that could enhance my skills... But i still see Judo as a sport...
But just because these are sports, doesn't mean i'm putting them down....
So, don't get me wrong, and i'm not putting down boxing techniques in anyway....i said above, i think its one of the best ways to train your punches(there is also a lot more you can learn from boxing, as Madmik said boxing does enhance the mind, and body, i agree totally) .... i do hours of mitt, heavy bag, floor to ceiling, and speed ball training...also skipping for foot work, and many other drills.... i no longer do specifically boxing sparring, but combination sparring... but i recommend to most people they do boxing... as well as kick boxing, TKD(sportive and traditional) and many other things too...

Boxing as seen by most people, is a sport where professional fighters like Floyd Mayweather, Mike Tyson etc, or amatures compete in the ring... These people are not competing as a means to enhance their skills for practicle self defense... they are their, out of love for the sport, money, or whatever reason, like any other athletes, in any sport...
I will Quote Kostya Tszyu, When asked due to the way he moved in a match against Hurtardo, had he done any martial arts??
he Replied:

" I think my technique has to be in the martial arts!
I have never studied any."

I think this alone should give you the perspective of a proffesional in the sport saying he hasn't done any martial arts...he is a boxer, not a martial artist...

I take it further than just boxing, and also think, that if you practise the competition, sportive, or whatever you want to call it, side of something, and that alone... then you are not practising a martial art...
I gave TKD as an example of this.. because with the introduction of it as an olympic sport, there are Dojangs that train Sport TKD only... they do not train kicks the groin, i have trained and taught at them.. becasue this is not aloud in the competition.... they do specific training to be optimal in the ring... People training like this are sportsmen, not martial artists (in my opinion)...
I have also trained at traditional TKD schools both ITF and WTF, and Yes WTF is a martial art, even though it is the creator of the sportive TKD,and the governing body of the rules regulations for it... and WTF schools all incorporate Sport competition into their training, as seen at the olympics...

Boxing you could say has been practised since the times of greeks and romans... with guys putting on leather things or something around there hands... and punching... again practised as a sport... i have not researched the exact origins of boxing ... But the boxing we see today, as far as i knew it has always been practised as a sport, and the official rules, were first introduced in the 1800's in england... the rules have since changed and been modified, and the influences of the training etc have also.... I'm basing that on memory of past reading, i don't know exact specifics.... I may be wrong...

And yes i've had breif study of Kali, and just about any place i've learned knife fighting, has made that quite clear, it is very common that you will get cut, or hurt, this is the same for any kind of fighting... i brought up the fencing point just to illustrate the difference between training for specifically a sport, rather than what you would do for real...
Which i brought up because that is the basis of why i say sports are not martial arts...

Martial Arts is (in my opinion) and quoteing Bruce Lee.... "Ultimately Martial Arts means honestly expressing yourself"
But in a less philosophical view point, and the more common one, Martial Arts are means for dealing with conflict.. whether that be a physical attack or a conflict within (such as fear, or anger)...
Martial Arts, are systems made to deal with this...
The hard arts... Wushu Nothern and southern, TKD, Karate, Kali, Hapkido, Jiu Jitsu, Iaido.. The list goes on..
The soft... Tai Chi, Qi gong, Hsing i, Pau Kua.. again the list goes on
Personally i believe the answer to be outside of systems, but these are the martial arts...
Sports based on combat i don't call Martial Arts...
There are 2 borderline cases they are Judo, and Muay Thai... but i personally still put them in the catagory sport...
The practise of sports like MMA, Judo, Muay Thai, Boxing, Fencing, are very closely related to Martial Arts... Because they come from combat techniques.. They are very important to practise or at least observe, to help find your ultimate answer... But other sports, and competition are great at hepling with this also, from Basketball, to Math challengers at school

I will accept that Boxing is a part of martial arts, and the benefits from it are a part of martial arts(spirtually, mentally, physically)... in its own right, i don't call it a martial art... i have a classification between sport and martial art, of which boxing fits in the sport catagory... A common misconception is, that just because its a sport, thats a bad thing...
People say

I don't think the definition of a Martial art is as simple as anything related to systematic physical combat...

Like i said in the begining, Whether you consider Boxing a Martial Art or not, depends on you definition of what a Martial art is... If you say martial arts is anything related to systematic physical combat... Then yes boxing is a martial art....

I've written all i want to say on the topic...

Will b interested 2 c other posters opinions...

 

[Sinister]

I get perfectly what you're trying to say, rather what you've said. What you are not getting is that there is no "your definition" of Martial Arts. Martial Arts has a very specific definition, it's only social perception of competition that has seemed to cloud what does and does not qualify.

By definition, in the pure sense of the word as it's meant to be used, not as people have slighted their perception of what is or isn't, Boxing is indeed a valid Martial Art and can be applied to every sense of the term used in the correct definition.

Any other conclusion is something a person is inventing that's outside the scope of what the terms entail. Like your (and society in general's) seperation of Sport from Martial Art where combat Arts are concerned. I don't consider such slighted perceptions as credible to detracting from the ideas because they simply don't. Going by the simple terms as they should be used, there is no credible argument that Boxing is not a Martial Art.

** Edit - jk, understand I respect your thought process and your right to perceive as you will. When I say "slighted" that may sound more negative than I mean it. I just mean it's not linear from term to use of term, it goes a slightly different direction. Bruce Lee of all people was notorious for such thinking, and it can be very innovative, provocative, and lead to much discovery. But for the purposes of this thread the thread-starter is simply asking does Boxing qualify as a Martial Art. I'm of the opinion that for the most basic answer personal perception can't be weighed more than the linear definition of the terms as to how they apply, because on that level it becomes difficult to answer ANY question. If a person were to open a dictionary, define "Martial Arts" based on the social agreed-upon definition, and apply it to Boxing, it qualifies. Personal perception thereof becomes secondary.

A suitable compromise to the little debate we have is that perhaps over time Boxing in-general has veered in it's ultimate goal system because of the invention of Professional Competition as a means to provide income for say, a person's household. I just personally don't think it's gone far enough to be outside the scope of Martial Arts and say compared to Pro Football, which is based on Military Strategy of conquering territory as a battalion. Pro Football is pure Sport now, Boxing may be closer to that, whereas Krav Maga is closer to the raw idea of what a Martial Art entails, but I don't think far enough to be lumped in with Footbal, Baseball, etc.

 

[Soulfly]

Yes, I think boxing should be considered a martial art.

 

[TapOutGrapler]

Muay Thai and Kickboxing are considered Martial arts, So in the same resopect so is Boxing. BTW King Kabuki hit it right on the spot.

 

[aries]

Maybe the term 'Martial Science' would better apply to scientifically proven combat forms like wrestling, BJJ, Boxing and Thai-Boxing?

To me 'Art' would put the emphasis on looking good whilst trying to be 'Martial' at the same time. So fighters like Muhammed Ali and Bruce Lee would be 'Martial Artists' but Fedor and Lennox Lewis would be 'Martial Scientists'. The distinction is that Fedor and Lennox are only concerned with what works not what looks good.

 

[Foul Breath]

Boxing is NOT a martial art. Martial arts originate from the battle field, like Kali/Escrima and some Gung fu. "martial arts" originated in life or death situations, such as in the battlefield you have a man armed to the teeth trying to kill you. All you have is a sword and you have to kill him as quickly as possible (hence Kali/excrima was eveloved). There is no such thing in north american, only sports which are sanctioned Boxing,(glvoes and bogus rules). If it were a martial art, the rounds would be 10 seconds long every time with the winner crippled or dead.

 

[Sinister]

Boxing is NOT a martial art. Martial arts originate from the battle field, like Kali/Escrima and some Gung fu. "martial arts" originated in life or death situations, such as in the battlefield you have a man armed to the teeth trying to kill you. All you have is a sword and you have to kill him as quickly as possible (hence Kali/excrima was eveloved). There is no such thing in north american, only sports which are sanctioned Boxing,(glvoes and bogus rules). If it were a martial art, the rounds would be 10 seconds long every time with the winner crippled or dead.

No.

 

[Foul Breath]

no? what the hell is no? Are you trying to pretend boxing is a combat sport?

 

[Sinister]

No is everything you said is absolute garbage.

jk is arguing perception of Boxing as not a Martial Art a whole Hell of a lot more intelligently than you. Acknowledging Boxing's roots in REAL COMBAT, as well as it's relevance in REAL COMBAT. You're just spouting bullshit based on nothing. According to your logic Martial Arts ceased to exist with the development of technology. According to your logic Boxing is North American and has no roots in real combat (which is utter nonsense, it was one of the foundation practices of the Roman Empire's Military as well as being very prominent in Greece along with Wrestling), and according to your logic Boxing is not wholly dangerous enough to be considered "Martial" which the notable deaths of more than one Boxer THIS YEAR from damage argues otherwise.

Do your homework before talking out of your ass, or be quiet.

 

[jk_08]

Ahhh I get you
Havn't thought about it like that before...
I'll have to think about it...
But you might have changed my mind...

I get perfectly what you're trying to say, rather what you've said. What you are not getting is that there is no "your definition" of Martial Arts. Martial Arts has a very specific definition, it's only social perception of competition that has seemed to cloud what does and does not qualify.

By definition, in the pure sense of the word as it's meant to be used, not as people have slighted their perception of what is or isn't, Boxing is indeed a valid Martial Art and can be applied to every sense of the term used in the correct definition.

Any other conclusion is something a person is inventing that's outside the scope of what the terms entail. Like your (and society in general's) seperation of Sport from Martial Art where combat Arts are concerned. I don't consider such slighted perceptions as credible to detracting from the ideas because they simply don't. Going by the simple terms as they should be used, there is no credible argument that Boxing is not a Martial Art.

** Edit - jk, understand I respect your thought process and your right to perceive as you will. When I say "slighted" that may sound more negative than I mean it. I just mean it's not linear from term to use of term, it goes a slightly different direction. Bruce Lee of all people was notorious for such thinking, and it can be very innovative, provocative, and lead to much discovery. But for the purposes of this thread the thread-starter is simply asking does Boxing qualify as a Martial Art. I'm of the opinion that for the most basic answer personal perception can't be weighed more than the linear definition of the terms as to how they apply, because on that level it becomes difficult to answer ANY question. If a person were to open a dictionary, define "Martial Arts" based on the social agreed-upon definition, and apply it to Boxing, it qualifies. Personal perception thereof becomes secondary.

A suitable compromise to the little debate we have is that perhaps over time Boxing in-general has veered in it's ultimate goal system because of the invention of Professional Competition as a means to provide income for say, a person's household. I just personally don't think it's gone far enough to be outside the scope of Martial Arts and say compared to Pro Football, which is based on Military Strategy of conquering territory as a battalion. Pro Football is pure Sport now, Boxing may be closer to that, whereas Krav Maga is closer to the raw idea of what a Martial Art entails, but I don't think far enough to be lumped in with Footbal, Baseball, etc.

 

[Sinister]

Ahhh I get you
Havn't thought about it like that before...
I'll have to think about it...
But you might have changed my mind...

It's all good, you proved the best argument though, as I mentioned in addressing the dink who posted earlier who unfortunately agrees with you and makes your stance look bad. lol

 

[jk_08]

hahaha
yeah

i will say its been good having an intellegent chat you....without all the slagging off everyone else seems to do...

It's all good, you proved the best argument though, as I mentioned in addressing the dink who posted earlier who unfortunately agrees with you and makes your stance look bad. lol

 

[Brad]

I find that boxing has very relevant very practical application in a street fight and in self defense situations, not to mention in a contest between two skilled opponents.

I don't know how you could argue that it *ISN'T* a martial art. The fundamentals of boxing are just good martial principle that you can find commonly throughout all the "good" martial arts.

That being said, I've been in situations with friends from boxing classes that absolutely dropped untrained guys in your typical bar room brawl situations.

I think alot of times we're so used to training with other skilled and trained fighters that we forget how relevant our skillsets can be in the real world. Unfortunately, I'm friends with a really rowdy bunch, so I'm reminded alot more often than I'd like to be.

 

[aries]

Boxing is NOT a martial art. Martial arts originate from the battle field, like Kali/Escrima and some Gung fu. "martial arts" originated in life or death situations, such as in the battlefield you have a man armed to the teeth trying to kill you. All you have is a sword and you have to kill him as quickly as possible (hence Kali/excrima was eveloved). There is no such thing in north american, only sports which are sanctioned Boxing,(glvoes and bogus rules). If it were a martial art, the rounds would be 10 seconds long every time with the winner crippled or dead.

Hey Troll!

The world according to Wikipedia:

A martial art, often referred to as a fighting system, is a system of codified practices and traditions of training for combat, usually without the use of guns and other modern weapons.

Hmmm sure sounds like Boxing meets the definition to me....

 

[Spoonman7]

of course it is, just don't tell boxers that.

 

[Gregster]

Boxing is NOT a martial art. Martial arts originate from the battle field, like Kali/Escrima and some Gung fu. "martial arts" originated in life or death situations, such as in the battlefield you have a man armed to the teeth trying to kill you. All you have is a sword and you have to kill him as quickly as possible (hence Kali/excrima was eveloved). There is no such thing in north american, only sports which are sanctioned Boxing,(glvoes and bogus rules). If it were a martial art, the rounds would be 10 seconds long every time with the winner crippled or dead.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/sport/boxing/early_history.shtml

The Romans had a keen interest in the sport and fighting soon became a common spectator sport. In order for the fighters to protect themselves against their opponents they wrapped leather thongs around their fists. Eventually harder leather was used and the thong soon became a weapon. The Romans even introduced metal studs to the thongs to make the cestus which then led to a more sinister weapon called the myrmex (

 

[lucid]

yes.

 

[Foul Breath]

sigh....boxing is a sport. No doubt it originated from a martial arts origin, which i never denied. Today it has been degraded to a sport.

 

[Zankou]

I know it may be beyond belief that a martial art can also be a sport, but give it a try.

I train boxing and bjj. Anybody who tells me that the one is just a sport, while the other is a martial art -- they don't know a damned thing. Boxers are fighters first and foremost. Go to a real boxing gym and they won't just teach you sport; they'll teach you to lay your opponent out. In reality, as opposed to most TMAs, which do it in imagination. I suppose there's your difference.

 

[Sinister]

sigh....boxing is a sport. No doubt it originated from a martial arts origin, which i never denied. Today it has been degraded to a sport.

Hmm, the whole opening line of your initial post is that Boxing is not a Martial Art, that Martial Arts originate from battlefield combat, and that there is no such thing in North America.

If you weren't saying Boxing didn't originate AS a Martial Art practice then all of us in here must have failed reading comprehension, because it sure appears that that's exactly what you were getting at.

A lot of Soldiers, still practice Boxing. I get hit up by recruiters a lot and when I tell them I'm going to Box they say "you can box for the Military." It exists today as both, not just one or the other. It's POPULARIZED with it's Sport aspect, but that's just because War and tactics used therein are not altogether popular in modern society.