is boxing considered as a martial art?

[Gregster]

sigh....boxing is a sport. No doubt it originated from a martial arts origin, which i never denied. Today it has been degraded to a sport.

"Degraded"? Ah well, six of one/half a dozen of the other....point remains that one can spend their entire life ruminating over the semantics of "martial art" vs. "sport" and this will not change the fact that a skilled boxer, whether you think he's engaged in sports or martial arts, can still eat your lunch for you in a street fight.

 

[sha]

King Kabuki has convinced me... I would now say that boxing is not a martial arts by the traditional, established definition of it, but if you think hard about it you'll be hard pressed to find a good reason why it shouldn't be one.

So then is wrestling a martial art ?

 

[Soulfly]

King Kabuki has convinced me... I would now say that boxing is not a martial arts by the traditional, established definition of it, but if you think hard about it you'll be hard pressed to find a good reason why it shouldn't be one.

So then is wrestling a martial art ?

Ooo.. Good angle. I'm going to say no.

 

[Sinister]

So then is wrestling a martial art ?

Boxing and Wrestling have almost the EXACT same origin, made prominent in the World by the EXACT same Empires. So if you're going by History, systematic practice of techniques that can be applied both in-and-out of combat, discipline, regimented study of War-like and relevant tactics, then yes absolutely.

But again, some of you guys are classifying the words "Martial Arts" as something that is other than the simple and distinct definition of it and equating it to what you see in movies and TV, which is altogether WRONG.

 

[chlorox]

sigh....boxing is a sport. No doubt it originated from a martial arts origin, which i never denied. Today it has been degraded to a sport.

You are entitled to your opinion...but I think that the sport element prevented it from being degraded into a series of rigid and meaningless physical choreography that a lot of traditional martial arts have become.

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

Maybe the term 'Martial Science' would better apply to scientifically proven combat forms like wrestling, BJJ, Boxing and Thai-Boxing?

To me 'Art' would put the emphasis on looking good whilst trying to be 'Martial' at the same time. So fighters like Muhammed Ali and Bruce Lee would be 'Martial Artists' but Fedor and Lennox Lewis would be 'Martial Scientists'. The distinction is that Fedor and Lennox are only concerned with what works not what looks good.

This is because of the stupid way "Martial art" was translated.

"Art" in "Martial art", is not the same art as Michaelangelo or Mozart. It's a skill.

When translating the characters for "Wu shu", they (unfortunately) chose to translate it as "martial art" instead of "martial skill". The English word "art" has many meanings, and one of them is "skill". Think "state of the art".

So "martial art" IS martial science already, and people who think of "looking good" simply do not know the Asian meaning of the "art" character. The whole "artistic" angle of "martial arts" is something invented and made up by Western bullshitters.

Just for the record, the most "scientific" martial arts by far are Taekwondo and Judo. No other combative sport has as many scientists actively researching it and applying it to training methodology. In Japan and Korea, you can study Judo or Taekwondo at a University, as your major, and publish scientific, peer-reviewed studies about training methodology, tactics or technique.

 

[Foul Breath]

kabuki: You are correct in that boxing can be utilized as both today. It can be used as a martial art in an essence, or western boxing as we know it is utilized as a sacntioned olympic sport. (Which rakes in billions of dollars a year on the USA). Is underlying importance is the mony it brings in, not to mention the corruption and evil promoters that have tainted it for porfit! This is the primary use.

Soldires practice boxing because it can be used as both a martial art or sport. You can choose to put 16 oz gloves on and not get too hurt while practicing technique, or no gloves to break opponents face and your knuckles. Kinda like Bjj: a sport use or "martial arts" practicality. BUT remember: to sell them as both is the ultimate way of profit, amusement and perhaps utility.

 

[sha]

((I agree with the "art" thing. I'm not so sure that tkd is one of the most advanced scientifically art, though. i've seen much deeper theory in chinese arts. And if it's so advanced, why didn't it teach me to put my hands in front of my face so I won't get hit ? (I'm a little bitter because I just started mma after 4 years of tkd, and the instructor had to tell me to keep my guard high up 3 or 4 times... just not used to it yet). But let's not start the tkd debate...))

The only thing I'm not sure about for wrestling or boxing, is that they don't take in account groin hits, eye gounging, biting, etc. So should they be really called "martial" arts, since those are all things you can do in battle ?

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

This is due to one of two things:

1) Your TKD school was crap, as every good school will teach you to keep your hands up in a real fight where you can get punched in the face
2) You were training for sport competition where face punching is not allowed, and got lazy

TKD is still very scientific. Every aspect of training is researched, as is nutrition, strategy, aerobic and anaerobic endurance, speed and power, flexibility, etc. All of this is then taught to the Korean national team, and everybody else follows.

Every year, completely new strategies come out from Korean universities. Don't believe me, ask a Korean instructor.

 

[Gregster]

(I'm a little bitter because I just started mma after 4 years of tkd, and the instructor had to tell me to keep my guard high up 3 or 4 times... just not used to it yet). But let's not start the tkd debate...)

EEG said it already, but I'm gonna say it anyway: if you were never taught to keep your guard up, you were taught wrong.

When I trained TKD, I had it drilled in me relentlessly to keep my guard up, and there was plenty of negative reinforcement to drive the point home. I realize this is due to the near-complete sportification of TKD where fighting instruction is acclimated to sport competition, though even that's not an excuse as both my instructor and his before him were both top-notch, successful tournament fighters.

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

Today's TKD is 90% footwork, and you only block if you absolutely need to. It's not like Muay Thai, where you absorb the shots, you evade most attacks through footwork.

Add to this the lack of face punching in competition, and many advanced fighters do not have their arms up, because they make it up with footwork.

It only works for advanced athletes and only in sport TKD. Non-elite fighters who fight with their hands down get kicked in the face repeatedly.

 

[aries]

The whole "artistic" angle of "martial arts" is something invented and made up by Western bullshitters.
QUOTE]

I think this is a common misconception of martial arts and why people don't think that there are such things as western martial arts. Its alot to do with film too. Violence portrayed on screen as a form of art. Cinema martial arts might not have much to do with real combat but they are certainly artistic. Ironically the biggest and best purveyors of artisitic on screen martial arts are the south east asian film makers.


Taken another tact is sniping a martial art?

 

[RickoOodles]

Woah this has been done quite a bit. (Search function) It originated as a martial art, but now it's practiced as a sport, and the sport aspect is what attracts people.

 

[Sinister]

but now it's practiced as a sport, and the sport aspect is what attracts people.

Incorrect, sorry. It's not "practiced" as a sport, the sport aspect of Boxing is mainly the Professional aspect of it, and most people who compete Golden Gloves or Olympic intend to go Professional and substanciate a living Boxing.

There are actually much more people who box for the same reasons other people take Tae Kwon Do or Karate, or MMA classes, with no intention to "play Sports."

 

[Madmick]

sigh....boxing is a sport. No doubt it originated from a martial arts origin, which i never denied. Today it has been degraded to a sport.

You have said some of the most outrageously ignorant things I have ever read in this forum.

 

[Madmick]

This thread has just gotten ridiculous.

Pankration was the first western martial art. It formed the roots for boxing and wrestling today. These versions have rules. Pankration did not.

I still see a purely Western/Orient mental division that is irrelevant to the definition of the word.

 

[Madmick]

Incorrect, sorry. It's not "practiced" as a sport, the sport aspect of Boxing is mainly the Professional aspect of it, and most people who compete Golden Gloves or Olympic intend to go Professional and substanciate a living Boxing.

There are actually much more people who box for the same reasons other people take Tae Kwon Do or Karate, or MMA classes, with no intention to "play Sports."

Seriously, have any of you lived in a metropolis?

A lot of black and latino kids learn this stuff to survive.

 

[lena]

Should this even be a question?

Of course boxing, wrestling and any thing else that will help you defend yourself on the street is a martial art.

I'd even consider practical shooting a martial art.

 

[sha]

Of course boxing, wrestling and any thing else that will help you defend yourself on the street is a martial art.

is running a martial art then ?

 

[farmboy]

This is a weak definition of a martial art, from dictionary.com:

"Any of several Asian arts of combat or self-defense, such as aikido, karate, judo, or tae kwon do, usually practiced as sport. Often used in the plural."

Here is the definition of martial:

" 1. Of, relating to, or suggestive of war.
2. Relating to or connected with the armed forces or the profession of arms.
3. Characteristic of or befitting a warrior."

They sort of don't gel with one another.

I read an interesting article about what a martial art , in the literal sense, was. Martial means that it would be relating to war. Now, when was karate, TKD, or boxing ever used in a war by soldiers? Now, riflemanship, kyudo, jujutsu, horse riding. Literally, those would be examples of martial arts.

Now, if you want to use the common, modern definition, boxing may be considered a martial art.