Is Anthony Joshua the worst of the best?

[BoxingMMA]

Rahman has ONE win, he was beaten by everyone else who was half decent, his best win outside of Lewis was Corrie Sanders

would you consider Sanders to be better than Povetkin?

And it seems a bit mute, i dont think i have seen a single person say he should be on the "A list"

I would personally remove Bowe, Fury, Vitali and any other champs that were good for a few years, but didnt really do a lot outside of a brief moment in the sun

Isn't TS's point that he is A Tier, but entry level A tier?

he isnt though, and neither is Bowe or Fury, just fleeting champions

I would put fury and Joshua on the list. But Joshua on the lowest possible level.

Bowe I do kind of agree, he should be near the top of the b list.

I do take issue with Vitali though. His only real loss was the Lennox cut. Chris bird loss was bs and he was winning on points before the rotator cuff issue.

He was also winning in points vs Lennox before the eye getting cut. This is a man who was never really on the losing end of a fight. Until Lennox split his head open that is

I always figured he was the superior brother and if wlad is on the list so should he.

But hey. Opinions.

 

[Intermission]

who changed?

The fighter in Dubios that you mentioned

 

[SandisLL]

Frazier was a world class fighter. Otto Wallin is a journey man

You might call Wallin how you want to call him, he wasn't 100% fulltime pro boxer.
Maybe you might had did better career than he? Think about this before judge Wallin.

 

[SandisLL]

I would put fury and Joshua on the list. But Joshua on the lowest possible level.

Bowe I do kind of agree, he should be near the top of the b list.

I do take issue with Vitali though. His only real loss was the Lennox cut. Chris bird loss was bs and he was winning on points before the rotator cuff issue.

He was also winning in points vs Lennox before the eye getting cut. This is a man who was never really on the losing end of a fight. Until Lennox split his head open that is

I always figured he was the superior brother and if wlad is on the list so should he.

But hey. Opinions.

Vitaly always attempted to deliver if tickets had been sold.
He was also KBer before pro boxing and most likely switched to pro boxing because more money and most likely he already was damaged before this...shoulder, back...
For this reality he wasn't bad. Only thing capable to finish him was high kick from one certain side or ref stoppage cos cuts.
Very good chin... even might bear hard kicks so to impact him you needed to kick head not chin or land punches on orbital bones, hit eyebrows or side of head...

 

[treelo]

I would put fury and Joshua on the list. But Joshua on the lowest possible level.

Bowe I do kind of agree, he should be near the top of the b list.

I do take issue with Vitali though. His only real loss was the Lennox cut. Chris bird loss was bs and he was winning on points before the rotator cuff issue.

He was also winning in points vs Lennox before the eye getting cut. This is a man who was never really on the losing end of a fight. Until Lennox split his head open that is

I always figured he was the superior brother and if wlad is on the list so should he.

But hey. Opinions.

maybe time will be more favourable to Joshua and Fury, they are both at the tail end of their careers now

i just dont think Fury has enough wins against top level opposition, he basically has Wlad and Wilder, everything inbetween and before is nothing to write home about, and Wilder has question marks against his name as well

one swallow does not make a summer, the fact that all 3 guys, Wilder, Fury and Joshua really struggled against average opposition at times is telling, the people on the A list are people who fought multiple world champions and regained titles, they also looked to fight the very best at the time and did

i wouldnt put Vitali on a list of A champions, because of who he fought, you may say that wasnt his fault because look who was around him, but his resume is pretty average, im not saying he didnt have the potential and wouldnt have been up there if the competition had been better, i think he was a real hard guy to beat

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

i wouldnt put Vitali on a list of A champions, because of who he fought, you may say that wasnt his fault because look who was around him, but his resume is pretty average, im not saying he didnt have the potential and wouldnt have been up there if the competition had been better, i think he was a real hard guy to beat

Yeah I think that's fair. Vitali's resume just doesn't match his perceived ability as a fighter. It's very thin, really.

 

[treelo]

Yeah I think that's fair. Vitali's resume just doesn't match his perceived ability as a fighter. It's very thin, really.

i would not bet money on anyone beating Vitali, he was a giant with an iron chin and could really punch, did Lewis get lucky...i dont think so, but imagine splitting someones face open and the guy screaming at you for another fight...yeah. those guys you need to avoid

i think Vitali would have absolutely battered Bowe, Fury and Joshua, he was about when he was a little on the aged side and when he allowed his brother to fight most of the decent competition

giant "What if"

 

[BoxingMMA]

The fighter in Dubios that you mentioned

Well, all fighters change. Joshua was supposed to be in the highest of highs when he lost to Daniel. I'm just saying, how much damage a fighter receives or gives has nothing to do with how their legacies add up.

Think about it. Miguel Cotto's brother did more damage to Canelo than Cotto, Mosley, Floyd, GGG, etc. Almost knocked him out.

Either he is a better fighter than all the ones I mentioned or the more logical answer. Canelo was in his first fight in the US (I think, or with HBO, something like that) was nervous, got caught and got better with time.

There are many reasons for why a fighter like Fury could have done so badly against a guy Joshua did better. It's always best to compare fighter's at their best, not at their worst.

 

[BoxingMMA]

maybe time will be more favourable to Joshua and Fury, they are both at the tail end of their careers now

i just dont think Fury has enough wins against top level opposition, he basically has Wlad and Wilder, everything inbetween and before is nothing to write home about, and Wilder has question marks against his name as well

one swallow does not make a summer, the fact that all 3 guys, Wilder, Fury and Joshua really struggled against average opposition at times is telling, the people on the A list are people who fought multiple world champions and regained titles, they also looked to fight the very best at the time and did

i wouldnt put Vitali on a list of A champions, because of who he fought, you may say that wasnt his fault because look who was around him, but his resume is pretty average, im not saying he didnt have the potential and wouldnt have been up there if the competition had been better, i think he was a real hard guy to beat

That's cool. I would disagree with Joshua and Fury; I think both deserve to be on list A, but I see why you would think otherwise. Both would be low on the list, but I do have Fury a few notches above Joshua.

The one I completely disagree with is Vitali. You can't have Wlad in list A and Vitalii in list B when Vitali beat both guys that battered Wladimir (Sanders and Peters, even if Wlad beat Peters, it was a disaster) and pretty much retired Lennox Lewis. Wladimir had the flashier career but not a lot of impressive wins.

Unless of course you also have Wlad on the crap list. Then I see your mindset, I just think it would be pretty crazy to think Wladimir was better than Vitali. In any way or form.

 

[treelo]

on the fence a bit about Wlad, his 20 plus title defenses means he has an excellent resume, he has more than double of what Vitali managed, now i wouldnt say Wlad is better than Vitali if they were to fight each other, but Wlad is going to be ranked higher for me purely because of what he achieved

 

[brundlefly]

If you have two lists of HW champions that have mattered over the years and put in one list all the great champions who truly changed the sport, inside and outside of the ring. You would have guys like Lewis, Louis, Ali, Kiltchkos, Tyson, Fury, Holyfield, Usyk, Foreman, Bowe etc. you get my drift.

First off, your list sucks. Fury and usyk do not belong on any list of great HW champs. You could make an argument for wlad, but he would rank at the very bottom of the list.

 

[brundlefly]

people love to hate on him, but before usyk, AJ was the only champ actually fighting anyone worth a fuck at HW, and hunting the other champs.

Are you serious? The best HW of that era was arguably ortiz who i believe would have taken AJ out. Wilder KO'd ortiz twice. Povetkin ran from the wilder fight. wilder even pursued the fury fight when he didn't need to.

wilder walked out of a 100M deal to "bet on himself". both avoided him like the plague.

that's not the way the rest of the world sees it. AJ was offered favorable terms and turned down the wilder fight. It was because of AJ the wilder fight didn't happen. Deontay was chafing for a unification fight and the guys from england kept AJ's glass jaw safe from him.

 

[brundlefly]

The one I completely disagree with is Vitali. You can't have Wlad in list A and Vitalii in list B when Vitali beat both guys that battered Wladimir (Sanders and Peters, even if Wlad beat Peters, it was a disaster) and pretty much retired Lennox Lewis.

can you please explain how vitali "retired lennox lewis" when it was vitali who got stopped in that fight?

Some of y'all say the stupidest things, i swear.

 

[randomg1t]

Are you serious? The best HW of that era was arguably ortiz who i believe would have taken AJ out. Wilder KO'd ortiz twice. Povetkin ran from the wilder fight. wilder even pursued the fury fight when he didn't need to.

ortiz was offered to step in for AJ, he was offered 8M to do so, which was the highest he'd ever been paid before in his career, and he refused to do it. he claimed he was being lowballed. that's how ruiz got the fight.

that's not the way the rest of the world sees it. AJ was offered favorable terms and turned down the wilder fight. It was because of AJ the wilder fight didn't happen. Deontay was chafing for a unification fight and the guys from england kept AJ's glass jaw safe from him.

oh really? wilder was offered 20M to fight breazeale and then 80M for two AJ fights. he refused the deal, said he was "betting on himself", and fought breazeale for 12M instead.

it's fucking hilarious how his fanboys want to revise history when the whole saga is well documented.

 

[treelo]

i feel fucking old these days, so many people who are watching videos from the past and not actually part of what was going on

 

[BoxingMMA]

can you please explain how vitali "retired lennox lewis" when it was vitali who got stopped in that fight?

Some of y'all say the stupidest things, i swear.

It’s not difficult to figure out. Lennox fought Vitali, was losing, landed a huge right that ended the fight. The whole world felt Vitali deserved a rematch. Lewis said “fuck this I’m going home” and never fought again. He didn’t want to fight Vitali again and with good reason.

 

[BoxingMMA]

First off, your list sucks. Fury and usyk do not belong on any list of great HW champs. You could make an argument for wlad, but he would rank at the very bottom of the list.

Don’t want to be offensive but when an amateur champ, Olympic champ, undisputed cruisier, undisputed HW champ with an undefeated record who beat giants to get where he is. (And considered by the majority of people who actually know the sport to be great) isn’t on your list of greats. (But wladimir is)

Then you should check www.slapfight.com. It’s a really good sport and more up your alley

 

[treelo]

It’s not difficult to figure out. Lennox fought Vitali, was losing, landed a huge right that ended the fight. The whole world felt Vitali deserved a rematch. Lewis said “fuck this I’m going home” and never fought again. He didn’t want to fight Vitali again and with good reason.

i mean, he didnt land one right hand did he, he landed about 30 of them and tore his face to fucking pieces

i sometimes wonder what people like you think of come from behind KOs, do you hold them in the same regard?

"one" right hand



guy looked like something of fucking Rocky

 

[brundlefly]

Don’t want to be offensive but when an amateur champ, Olympic champ, undisputed cruisier, undisputed HW champ with an undefeated record who beat giants to get where he is. (And considered by the majority of people who actually know the sport to be great) isn’t on your list of greats. (But wladimir is)

Then you should check www.slapfight.com. It’s a really good sport and more up your alley

based on your argument, are michael spinks, michael moorer, david haye, chris byrd, james toney and roy jones jr on your list of "great" heavyweight champs? they were all (mostly) accomplished amateurs who won titles at a lower weight class then became heavyweight champs,right? So, they're all basically on the same level as usyk.

 

[brundlefly]

It’s not difficult to figure out. Lennox fought Vitali, was losing, landed a huge right that ended the fight. The whole world felt Vitali deserved a rematch. Lewis said “fuck this I’m going home” and never fought again. He didn’t want to fight Vitali again and with good reason.

i don't know of a lotta cases where a champ defends his title by stoppage then gets accused of ducking the same guy he stopped. That must be a new strain of logic permeating this forum.

based on your argument, there's literally hundreds of instances of champs who "ducked" a challenger by coming from behind to knock out the challenger then not giving that challenger a rematch. For example,there's canelo-kkkovalev, canelo-saunders, mccallum-julian jackson, jackson-norris, AJ-wlad and i could probably go on all day.