Is Anthony Joshua the worst of the best?

[brundlefly]

i mean, he didnt land one right hand did he, he landed about 30 of them and tore his face to fucking pieces

i sometimes wonder what people like you think of come from behind KOs, do you hold them in the same regard?

"one" right hand
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guy looked like something of fucking Rocky

Exactly. I havent rewatched that fight in a long time. but i remember it being a good tussle, with vitali starting fast and appearing to stun lewis. but then lewis regrouping and beating the bejeezus outta vitali, busting up his face and vitali fading fast. then just when the bell rings for the next round where i was sure vitali had nothing left in the tank and lewis was rearing to get him, vitali and his corner quit.

and here we have malicious mfkers who want to tell lies and rewrite history to suit their own agenda.

 

[brundlefly]

ortiz was offered to step in for AJ, he was offered 8M to do so, which was the highest he'd ever been paid before in his career, and he refused to do it. he claimed he was being lowballed. that's how ruiz got the fight.


oh really? wilder was offered 20M to fight breazeale and then 80M for two AJ fights. he refused the deal, said he was "betting on himself", and fought breazeale for 12M instead.

it's fucking hilarious how his fanboys want to revise history when the whole saga is well documented.

the whole "betting on myself" thing had nothing to do with AJ. It was about developiing his skills as a fighter. Nice try, but your nonsense argument doesnt work.

Honestly, I don't remember all the details of the fight negotiations. but the thing that stands out the most was that wilder wanted 50/50 and AJ wanted more.

So, I looked it up on ChatGPT...and this is what i got back.

"Deontay Wilder didn't take an $80 million offer to fight Anthony Joshua primarily due to a disagreement over the fight's financial structure and control. Wilder's team sought a 50/50 purse split and control of the fight, while Joshua's team aimed for a larger share and control, viewing Wilder as a less valuable commodity.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

• Financial Discrepancies:
  Wilder's team, particularly his manager Shelly Finkel, publicly stated they wanted a 50/50 split of the revenue, which they felt was fair given Wilder's power and potential to draw viewers. Joshua's team, however, believed they deserved a larger share due to Joshua's greater marketability and broader appeal.
  
  
• Control of the Fight:
  Beyond the financial split, there were also disagreements about who would have control over various aspects of the fight promotion, including venue, date, and media rights. Wilder's team wanted more say in these decisions, while Joshua's team felt they should have greater control.
  
  
• Wilder's Perspective:
  Wilder, in particular, felt that he was being undervalued and that Joshua's team was trying to take advantage of him. He believed his power and knockout ability made him a bigger draw than Joshua initially acknowledged.
  
  
• Joshua's Perspective:
  Joshua's team, on the other hand, viewed Wilder as a risky opponent, especially after Wilder's draw with Tyson Fury. They believed that taking a 50/50 split with Wilder would not be as beneficial as fighting other opponents or waiting for a better deal. "

 

[Mujeriego]

i don't know of a lotta cases where a champ defends his title by stoppage then gets accused of ducking the same guy he stopped. That must be a new strain of logic permeating this forum.

based on your argument, there's literally hundreds of instances of champs who "ducked" a challenger by coming from behind to knock out the challenger then not giving that challenger a rematch. For example,there's canelo-kkkovalev, canelo-saunders, mccallum-julian jackson, jackson-norris, AJ-wlad and i could probably go on all day.

Canelo was the challenger against Kovalev and was up 96-94 on two cards, and 95-95 on the other, when he KOd Kovalev.
Against BJS it was a unification, and he was up 78-74 on two cards, 77-75 on the other when he stopped BJS.
Those aren't come from behind wins.

 

[randomg1t]

the whole "betting on myself" thing had nothing to do with AJ. It was about developiing his skills as a fighter. Nice try, but your nonsense argument doesnt work.

he literally said it in his statement when addressing why he turned down the 100M deal. are you dense?

So, I looked it up on ChatGPT...and this is what i got back.

lol.

 

[brundlefly]

he literally said it in his statement when addressing why he turned down the 100M deal. are you dense?


lol.

well, the information i have shows something very different. can you please post a link so we can all see the context that he made the "betting on myself" comment.

 

[RichardHarrow]

More like best of the worst tbh

 

[BoxingMMA]

i don't know of a lotta cases where a champ defends his title by stoppage then gets accused of ducking the same guy he stopped. That must be a new strain of logic permeating this forum.

based on your argument, there's literally hundreds of instances of champs who "ducked" a challenger by coming from behind to knock out the challenger then not giving that challenger a rematch. For example,there's canelo-kkkovalev, canelo-saunders, mccallum-julian jackson, jackson-norris, AJ-wlad and i could probably go on all day.

Well shit, don't take it from me. You will find many boxing fans think the same way. Not that Vitali was better than Lennox obviously but that Lennox didn't have it in him to fight a rematch. He even promised vitali the fight and got out of it.

 

[brundlefly]

Well shit, don't take it from me. You will find many boxing fans think the same way. Not that Vitali was better than Lennox obviously but that Lennox didn't have it in him to fight a rematch. He even promised vitali the fight and got out of it.

my point is that there was no need for rematch. Lewis retained his title by KO against a tough challenger, end of story. Just another day at the office.

I mean lewis got strong challenges from michael grant and shannon briggs too, but i don't see you crediting them for his retirement.

Lewis retiring had nothing to do with vitali. It had to do with him having had enough of boxing after being in the sport for decades.

you might just as well credit connor mcgregor for floyd deciding to retire from boxing.

 

[brundlefly]

Canelo was the challenger against Kovalev and was up 96-94 on two cards, and 95-95 on the other, when he KOd Kovalev.
Against BJS it was a unification, and he was up 78-74 on two cards, 77-75 on the other when he stopped BJS.
Those aren't come from behind wins.

ok, how about salvador sanchez-azumah nelson, canelo-khan and whitaker-hurtado?... and I could keep going...

 

[randomg1t]

well, the information i have shows something very different. can you please post a link so we can all see the context that he made the "betting on myself" comment.

the link is in the post you quoted. try clicking on the word "literally". you'll notice it's also a different color, because it's a link.

hope this helps.

 

[SandisLL]

Exactly. I havent rewatched that fight in a long time. but i remember it being a good tussle, with vitali starting fast and appearing to stun lewis. but then lewis regrouping and beating the bejeezus outta vitali, busting up his face and vitali fading fast. then just when the bell rings for the next round where i was sure vitali had nothing left in the tank and lewis was rearing to get him, vitali and his corner quit.

and here we have malicious mfkers who want to tell lies and rewrite history to suit their own agenda.

Normally end trollng here. You are puffy cubicle boxing expert and nasty troll here nothing more.

Noise not normal poster. Nasty trolling here.

 

[SandisLL]

based on your argument, are michael spinks, michael moorer, david haye, chris byrd, james toney and roy jones jr on your list of "great" heavyweight champs? they were all (mostly) accomplished amateurs who won titles at a lower weight class then became heavyweight champs,right? So, they're all basically on the same level as usyk.Trolling for noise is your life here for years in row.

Haye had win vs Valuev. Before you will start shit on him from puffy cubicle...fight vs his uncle version.

Only one boxer who had IMHO win on cards ( close btw despite alcoholics yelling in internet ) without hands damaged vs Valuev was Holyfield. I had scored fight for Holy, close.
Haye had fucked joint and hand after he get win on cards vs according to you due passport dumb and weak Valuev.
He will roll you in coffin even today. In real life.

 

[treelo]

my point is that there was no need for rematch. Lewis retained his title by KO against a tough challenger, end of story. Just another day at the office.

I mean lewis got strong challenges from michael grant and shannon briggs too, but i don't see you crediting them for his retirement.

Lewis retiring had nothing to do with vitali. It had to do with him having had enough of boxing after being in the sport for decades.

you might just as well credit connor mcgregor for floyd deciding to retire from boxing.

and lets not forget, that was meant to be Lewis last fight all along against Kirk Johnson, it was a farewell fight against a fellow Canadian

 

[Blastbeat]

based on your argument, are michael spinks, michael moorer, david haye, chris byrd, james toney and roy jones jr on your list of "great" heavyweight champs? they were all (mostly) accomplished amateurs who won titles at a lower weight class then became heavyweight champs,right? So, they're all basically on the same level as usyk.

James Toney never won any titles at HW.

Usyk is the first undisputed champ at HW since Lennox Lewis. he has a better HW resume than anyone you listed with the possible exception of Spinks. Usyk is a great champ, sorry he isnt your preferred fighter but he is objectively a great fighter and will be looked at as such in the future.

 

[BoxingMMA]

my point is that there was no need for rematch. Lewis retained his title by KO against a tough challenger, end of story. Just another day at the office.

I mean lewis got strong challenges from michael grant and shannon briggs too, but i don't see you crediting them for his retirement.

Lewis retiring had nothing to do with vitali. It had to do with him having had enough of boxing after being in the sport for decades.

you might just as well credit connor mcgregor for floyd deciding to retire from boxing.

First of all, thanks for the joke, I actually spilled my drink when you said Michael Grant gave Lewis a challenge. That fight was one of the most embarrassing beatdowns in HW history.

As for Vitali, as I said don't take it from me. No one wanted a rematch with Briggs and Grant because we knew what would happen. The reason why pretty much everyone wanted a rematch with Vitali is because he was winning when it ended and he wanted to continue but the doctor stopped it. Lewis fans wanted to prove that he could do it again and Vitali fans wanted to prove that he could take it. Boxing fans in general wanted a great fight between two great HW champions.

It's crazy to not want a fight that big. It's as if Canelo is getting beat by crawford then lands a right that opens his forehead but otherwise crawford is fine then the doctro stops it and Canelo goes "well now that crawford is done, Charlo next?"

Yeah he won but fans demand a rematch when things arent clear. Nobody is saying Lewis didn't win. I think those who didn't want the rematch were the ones afraid he would lose

 

[BoxingMMA]

i mean, he didnt land one right hand did he, he landed about 30 of them and tore his face to fucking pieces

i sometimes wonder what people like you think of come from behind KOs, do you hold them in the same regard?

"one" right hand
View attachment 1099678
View attachment 1099679

guy looked like something of fucking Rocky

What I think of comeback KO's is the guy got lucky but deserved the win, yet a rematch is warranted. If the guy who got the comeback KO then decides to never give a chance to the loser, it doesn't look too good.

But what many people ignore is the fundamental difference between being knocked out and being stopped by a cut. When you get knocked out, you can't continue, that's it. You are unconscious on the ground and your opponent could kill you if the ref wasn't there to stop him from stomping you.

Vitali was ready to continue and in the world of HW's you never know what can happen in a round, yet it was a doctor who told him he couldn't continue. He did not quit; he was forced to. He wasn't stopped by Lennox; rather, a doctor said he should stop.

 

[Mujeriego]

ok, how about salvador sanchez-azumah nelson, canelo-khan

Sanchez was winning on two cards, by a decent margin, and Canelo was up on two cards when he KOd Khan in the 6th.
Chavez beating Tayor is a comeback win. Wardley beating Huni is a comeback win.
A close fight your winning the whole time, isn't a comeback.

 

[treelo]

What I think of comeback KO's is the guy got lucky but deserved the win, yet a rematch is warranted. If the guy who got the comeback KO then decides to never give a chance to the loser, it doesn't look too good.

But what many people ignore is the fundamental difference between being knocked out and being stopped by a cut. When you get knocked out, you can't continue, that's it. You are unconscious on the ground and your opponent could kill you if the ref wasn't there to stop him from stomping you.

Vitali was ready to continue and in the world of HW's you never know what can happen in a round, yet it was a doctor who told him he couldn't continue. He did not quit; he was forced to. He wasn't stopped by Lennox; rather, a doctor said he should stop.

yeah, that is a ridiculous narrative to peddle

he got stopped because the injuries were starting to become that serious he could have risked his sight or even worse, it wasn't like he(Klitschko) was on top at the time and really starting to lay it on Lewis, it was completely the other way round

Klitschko was being battered from pillar to post in that last round and was clinging on for dear life

ref should have let hm carry on and he would have never fought again, the imagine how much you all would have cried about the ref/doctors?

 

[BoxingMMA]

GOD DAMNIT!!!

I totally forgot this event was today and missed the whole thing.

Is there any way I can watch this after the fact? FUCK!

This probably didn’t help him:

yeah, that is a ridiculous narrative to peddle

he got stopped because the injuries were starting to become that serious he could have risked his sight or even worse, it wasn't like he(Klitschko) was on top at the time and really starting to lay it on Lewis, it was completely the other way round

Klitschko was being battered from pillar to post in that last round and was clinging on for dear life

ref should have let hm carry on and he would have never fought again, the imagine how much you all would have cried about the ref/doctors?

It still doesn’t make it false. Tyson fury had a horrible cut vs Otto Wallin. Was it worse than Vitali? Maybe not but it shows how depending on the ref and the fighter who received the cut, a fight will or will not be stopped.

Example. I can guarantee you that if it was wallin with that cut, the fight would be stopped.

Anyway, I for one wanted a rematch because it felt inconclusive. Lennox won fair and square but good fights deserve rematches and those guys had a close fight and vitali wanted to keep going. Which is a big fact. If he had quit himself that would have changed the narrative.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

based on your argument, are michael spinks, michael moorer, david haye, chris byrd, james toney and roy jones jr on your list of "great" heavyweight champs? they were all (mostly) accomplished amateurs who won titles at a lower weight class then became heavyweight champs,right? So, they're all basically on the same level as usyk.

Right, except only a couple of the guys you listed were ever undisputed champs in any weight class. Michael Spinks & Roy were but that was at light heavyweight not heavyweight. While both were at one point heavyweight titlists they never unified all of the belts like Usyk did. Usyk was undisputed in two weight classes which has only been done by a few other fighters in history. Holyfield also did it in the three-belt era. Toney took the WBA heavyweight title off of John Ruiz but only kept it for a matter of days since he popped for an anabolic steroid and got stripped. His "win" (UD) was officially overturned by the commission to a No Contest.