Is ADCC proof that BJJ is the best grappling art?

[BJJ_Rage]

Jacare, Maia, and Roger are all really good at Judo.

If for you throws are equal to judo, then I can say that yoshida has very good bjj...

bjj also trains in tds, obviusly bjj guys will not have the same tds as wrestlers and judokas, because we spend more time on the ground than both of them, just like neither of them have a ground game as bjj guys... is a matter of mat time...

But, I think maia is a judo black belt too.. anyways, is not his throws what make him so good, but his grapplingfuck ability, wich is due to his bjj training...

and again, bjj is not a pure art, so I will call a pure bjj guy a fighter that fights using mainly bjj...

 

[Normot]

If for you throws are equal to judo, then I can say that yoshida has very good bjj...

bjj also trains in tds, obviusly bjj guys will not have the same tds as wrestlers and judokas, because we spend more time on the ground than both of them, just like neither of them have a ground game as bjj guys... is a matter of mat time...

But, I think maia is a judo black belt too.. anyways, is not his throws what make him so good, but his grapplingfuck ability, wich is due to his bjj training...

and again, bjj is not a pure art, so I will call a pure bjj guy a fighter that fights using mainly bjj...

Maia threw Sonnen. And Jacare is a Judo blackbelt, in fact he started with Judo first. Roger also has a blackbelt and he trains with the best Judokas in Britain in Judo. And again, almost no art isn't influenced by other arts, so I will say what the fuck are you talking about, the fighters listed aren't pure BJJ guys even if all they did was BJJ (Which they don't).

 

[Rod1]

thing is, bjj is not a pure art, its a hybrid by it self..

And here is the BS, so because BJJ is "hybrid" all striking and takedowns a BJJ guy does is BJJ, but this doesnt holds true for other styles, despite the fact that Judo also has strikes (in outdated kata that nobody practices).

When we refer to BJJ we are basically referring to BJJ competitions like 95% of the gyms out there train.

Jacare

Judo blackbelt, uses judo in MMA

Maia

Used Judo to throw Sonnen

Roger (so far)

Uses judo on his fights, he used it in his last fight to land on top.

Fabricio Werdum

He is also a very good striker

They are all fighters who relay on their bjj, unlike judo...

They rely on their Judo to take the fight to the ground, if you take their ability to go to the ground, they become Andre Galvao.

Soku vs arona?? LMFAO!! what a beutiful display of juda that was right? a fucking punch to the face in the first minuto... wow his judo kick ass... not to mention he even said that his judo didnt help much for his mma training (on the ground) he isnt the best grappler to be getting your judo train behind.

Sure his striking is not Judo, but Werdum striking certainly is BJJ and Roger and Jacare TDs are BJJ too.

Right...

Matter of fact, there has not be one single judo based guy in mma that was as dominant as bjj has been, NOT ONE (and im talking dominant guys like bj was, like AS is, like Royce once was, Like jacare is right now, and will leave out the tons of bjj based fighters that are doing fine)

You said Judo is useless for MMA, you gladly pointed out fighters that have succesfully used Judo in their fights.

Does Judo only fighters suck? well yeah, but so do BJJ only guys, the guys you mentioned have crosstrained a LOT.

For pure BJJ guys with little crosstraining, Marcelo and Galvao.

And by sherdog rules, its actually the oppositive, no matter if a wrestler gets his bjj black belt, he will always be a wrestler...

Really?

Wrestling and bjj are the most dominant grappling arts in mma, bjj is the most dominant grappling art in submission grappling competition, and judo is the most dominant art in well, judo. That is a fact and you cannot prove it wrong. For every single one example you can name, there are 10 on the other way. Plain and simple.

You said Judo is useless, and i can name thousands of examples where judo has helped fighters in MMA to take the fight to the ground, but according to you, you nee to win the olympics in Judo to be considered a BJJ guy. I have not seen any olympic wrestlers in MMA either.

Your logic is outright STUPID, its like saying that kickboxing sucks because of Mark Hunt, Semmy Schilt careers.

Any standalone art sucks for MMA nowadays,.

 

[Rod1]

If for you throws are equal to judo, then I can say that yoshida has very good bjj...

Would be true if Yoshida trained in a BJJ dojo, the guys mentioned trained Judo with Judokas.

bjj also trains in tds, obviusly bjj guys will not have the same tds as wrestlers and judokas, because we spend more time on the ground than both of them, just like neither of them have a ground game as bjj guys... is a matter of mat time...

Its more than that, Judo and wrestling both have positional fighting which is the core of groundfighting, rough and simple but there is the base.

BJJ guys only train TDs in drills, if you talk about angles and setting up throws they know squat, i take about 5 seconds top to throw any guy that decides to standup with me (when i want to play top, i play top) with a simple feint to get angle and a throw, even if you dont know any Judo throw you learn about angles in your first year.

BJJ standup is more akin to Hapkido and other MAs that only train locks without learning how to set them up.

Just like a BJJ whitebelt learns first to survive, then to get position and then adds submissions, that's how you train standup too.

The point is moot anyway, the guys mentioned trained judo under judokas, Roger trained with british olympians.

But, I think maia is a judo black belt too.. anyways, is not his throws what make him so good, but his grapplingfuck ability, wich is due to his bjj training...

Hard to grapplefuck when you cant take the fight to the ground, without his TDs he is just an horrible striker.

and again, bjj is not a pure art, so I will call a pure bjj guy a fighter that fights using mainly bjj...

Neither is Judo, Karate or whatever MA, but realistically, the things trained are for competition.

Most BJJ dojos (not counting MMA gyms) spend less than 5% training standup (and all wrong) and about less than 1% striking.

 

[knoxpk]

OH, I love this board.. Just accept it BJJ owns, all else suck(regardless of real results) and you will get along just fine.

 

[Amae Koromo]

Sometimes I wonder what is the difference between judo and BJJ.
I mean, there is a non-Gracie lineage of BJJ (students of another student of Maeda - two famous examples of them: Leo Santos and Rodolfo Vieira) and they are not that different from the Gracie guys (maybe because of influence of the Gracie guys? I don't know).

Most Judoka don't participate in MMA because they don't believe that it is in the "spirit" of Judo.

If we had more Olympic or even national level Judoka in MMA it would be a different story.

There are a lot of elite judo fighters that tried their luck in MMA... Hidehiko Yoshida, Ogawa and Satoshi Ishii are the first that come to mind. They were all as elite as you can get.

 

[2bjjbb]

Marcelo, Roger, Jacare? I believe that BJJ is the superior grappling art!

 

[nni]

This has been pointed out before in this thread, but just to refresh memories: the best judo practitioners go to the Olympics, the best wrestlers go to the Olympics, the best BJJ practitioners go to ADCC.

Unless you were to have an ADCC where the gold medalists of Judo, free-style wrestling and greco-roman wrestling grapple against the gold medalists of BJJ it's tough to say that ADCC proved that BJJ is better. Never mind the details on the rules and point-scoring of the competition.

 

[fourfif**]

This has been pointed out before in this thread, but just to refresh memories: the best judo practitioners go to the Olympics, the best wrestlers go to the Olympics, the best BJJ practitioners go to ADCC.

Unless you were to have an ADCC where the gold medalists of Judo, free-style wrestling and greco-roman wrestling grapple against the gold medalists of BJJ it's tough to say that ADCC proved that BJJ is better. Never mind the details on the rules and point-scoring of the competition.

Great post, and novel insight to an otherwise 'ground hog day' debate with the same lines being spewed ad nauseum.

Marcelo, Roger, Jacare? I believe that BJJ is the superior grappling art because it's what I do, and since I don't know jack s*** about anything else it gets my vote, plus an exclamation mark!

BJJ focuses more on submissions thats why its the best, but really it's because it's what I do, and since I don't know jack s*** about anything else it gets my vote, in the chapter called "Buttscooting Techniques" in my book, entitled 'Grappling for Dumbasses'.

stfu newb.

 

[mj12]

BJJ focuses more on submissions thats why its the best in my book.

 

[georgejjr]

There are a lot of elite judo fighters that tried their luck in MMA... Hidehiko Yoshida, Ogawa and Satoshi Ishii are the first that come to mind. They were all as elite as you can get.

Well to be fair, Yoshida and Ogawa went into MMA after they couldn't win matches in international judo anymore. And Yoshida won Olympic gold at 173 pounds and fought as a heavyweight in MMA - he'd put on 50 pounds of fat, which kind of tells you how seriously he took MMA ... it was a place to make money when he was losing badly in judo and tired of cutting weight.

Ishii on the other hand was in his prime (just won Olympic gold) when he started on the road to MMA. Too early to say how he'll do though, it takes several years to transition from a pure grappling style to MMA.

But more than anything, I'm amazed that this thread popped up again. Like old times - same issue, nothing's changed.

 

[Fallen]

OH, I love this board.. Just accept it BJJ owns, all else suck(regardless of real results) and you will get along just fine.

No one is saying that. The fact of the matter is this: BJJ is the best grappling art for finishing an opponent on the ground...which is largely what BJJ practitioners (like myself) are using as a measure for what constitutes the "best" grappling art. If you're (universal "you're", not talking to you specifically knox) using a different measure, fine, then we're talking about two different things, and I would probably agree with wrestling being better for X and Judo being better for Y...but as far as finishing an opponent on the ground, it is BJJ that reigns supreme.

If we're talking TD's and suffocating top game, I am of the opinion that wrestling is the best style to practice.

 

[joe90210]

lol @ all the bitter butthurtness