Tech "intel's f-----"

[rob mafia]

spam

imagine being mad enough to spam this crappy thread.

 

[Madmick]

Which years did Intel have a net loss?

Never.

Pretty simple to answer that one. No need for meaningless, contortionist responses.

 

[rob mafia]

Never.

Pretty simple to answer that one. No need for meaningless, contortionist responses.

...so intel's wrong, then?

congrats on walking into a pick your poison scenario that i didn't even set up.

 

[jefferz]

Anyone with a B350 or X370 motherboard won't be able to upgrade to the Zen 3 refresh. And anyone with a B450 or X470 won't be guaranteed to be supported, and will likely face restrictions even if they are eligible to manually retrieve an unofficial BIOS that isn't pushed via Windows.

Of course, none of that has anything to do with the fact Intel offers the best CPU at every available price point, currently.

Additionally, the new BIOS updates that enable Zen 3 support on 300-series motherboards arrive in the April-May timeframe.

 

[Madmick]

Zen 3 isn't the Zen 3 Refresh. So 300-series motherboard owners will be able to upgrade to inferior gaming CPUs with an inferior standalone value. Very cool for them, but this changes nothing about what I've said about Intel's superior value over this past year.

I like this passage from Tom's Hardware in particular. I read it to myself thinking, "There might as well be an echo in here."

The new 7nm Ryzen chips feel late, arriving a year and a half after the first wave of Ryzen 5000 chips, but they’re badly needed. Intel’s Alder Lake launch caught AMD uncharacteristically flat-footed, with its new hybrid processors wresting away AMD’s performance lead across nearly the entire Ryzen 5000 product stack and taking a clear lead in our CPU benchmarks hierarchy. Of course, we typically expect to pay a premium for leading performance, but Intel’s aggressive pricing also brought superior value in every price range while exploiting AMD’s glaring lack of any sub-$250 chips. In response to Intel’s bare-knuckle Alder Lake pricing, AMD finally responded by slashing prices on its existing 5000-series models earlier this month. Now its new Ryzen processors slot in to plug the remaining gaps.

AMD didn't react until just earlier this month with the price slash. Anyone buying AMD (not upgrading) over Intel during this past 9+ months was either obtuse or fanboyish. As I said, Intel has offered the best CPU value at every single price point-- an unprecedented market reality in the past 12 years.

This refresh also appears to be a pitiful scramble, bring nothing more than an L3 cache band-aid to the table, but it's good for gamers AMD is finally again making an effort to compete with more aggressive pricing, and we'll see if AMD's claims about performance boons ring true.

 

[rob mafia]

Zen 3 isn't the Zen 3 Refresh. So 300-series motherboard owners will be able to upgrade to inferior gaming CPUs with an inferior standalone value. Very cool for them, but this changes nothing about what I've said about Intel's superior value over this past year.

I like this passage from Tom's Hardware in particular. I read it to myself thinking, "There might as well be an echo in here."

AMD didn't react until just earlier this month with the price slash. Anyone buying AMD (not upgrading) over Intel during this past 9+ months was either obtuse or fanboyish. As I said, Intel has offered the best CPU value at every single price point-- an unprecedented market reality in the past 12 years.

This refresh also appears to be a pitiful scramble, bring nothing more than an L3 cache band-aid to the table, but it's good for gamers AMD is finally again making an effort to compete with more aggressive pricing, and we'll see if AMD's claims about performance boons ring true.

the bios update is for all zen 3s.

lolz @ arguing the price slash was this month - when they were mentioned so many, many months ago. with links (to purchase) you were deleting. while arguing that they cost more than they did.

 

[Madmick]

AMD didn't themselves slash prices on Zen 3 until last month-- as mentioned in the Tom's Hardware article Jeff just linked published 10 hours ago.


The occasional price drops at various resellers prior to that were countered by superior sales on competing Rocket Lake processors, or still failed to outperform the value curve of Alder Lake processors. And the Zen 3 refresh isn't a true refresh at all-- as I just pointed out.

 

[rob mafia]

AMD didn't themselves slash prices on Zen 3 until last month-- as mentioned in the Tom's Hardware article Jeff just linked published 10 hours ago.


The occasional price drops at various resellers prior to that were countered by superior sales on competing Rocket Lake processors, or still failed to outperform the value curve of Alder Lake processors. And the Zen 3 refresh isn't a true refresh at all-- as I just pointed out.

lolz @ "occasional" when they were consistent/constant... for about a year.

 

[PEB]

I don't really care as much about performance but Intel's 13 gen but more importantly 14 gen are going to expose AMD architectural direction weakness vs Intel's design goals. AMD already could be having problems with their chiplet designs as well as Nvidia. Intel is progressing more favorably with their stacking design and have specifics patents that gives them an edge in that regard.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...%7Calways-on&linkId=100000094062584#gs.txzyg4

 

[rob mafia]

I don't really care as much about performance but Intel's 13 gen but more importantly 14 gen are going to expose AMD architectural direction weakness vs Intel's design goals. AMD already could be having problems with their chiplet designs as well as Nvidia. Intel is progressing more favorably with their stacking design and have specifics patents that gives them an edge in that regard.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/intel-components-research-looks-beyond-2025.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&CID=iosm&icid=100002749961528%7Calways-on&linkId=100000094062584#gs.txzyg4

...do you even believe this?

the intel link doesn't even put the spotlight on foveros, giving it basically one sentence.

 

[PEB]

...do you even believe this?

the intel link doesn't even put the spotlight on foveros, giving it basically one sentence.

• Researchers at the company have outlined solutions for the design, process, and assembly challenges of hybrid bonding interconnect, envisioning a more than 10x interconnect density improvement in packaging. At the Intel Accelerated event in July, Intel announced plans to introduce Foveros Direct, enabling sub-10-micron bump pitches, providing an order of magnitude increase in the interconnect density for 3D stacking. To enable the ecosystem to gain benefits of advanced packaging, Intel is also calling for the establishment of new industry standards and testing procedures to enable a hybrid bonding chiplet ecosystem.
• Looking beyond its gate-all-around RibbonFET, Intel is mastering the coming post-FinFET era with an approach to stacking multiple (CMOS) transistors that aims to achieve a maximized 30% to 50% logic scaling improvement for the continued advancement of Moore’s Law by fitting more transistors per square millimeter.
• Intel is also paving the way for Moore’s Law advancement into the angstrom era with forward-looking research showing how novel materials just a few atoms thick can be used to make transistors that overcome the limitations of conventional silicon channels, enabling millions more transistors per die area for evermore powerful computing in the next decade.

 

[rob mafia]

• Researchers at the company have outlined solutions for the design, process, and assembly challenges of hybrid bonding interconnect, envisioning a more than 10x interconnect density improvement in packaging. At the Intel Accelerated event in July, Intel announced plans to introduce Foveros Direct, enabling sub-10-micron bump pitches, providing an order of magnitude increase in the interconnect density for 3D stacking. To enable the ecosystem to gain benefits of advanced packaging, Intel is also calling for the establishment of new industry standards and testing procedures to enable a hybrid bonding chiplet ecosystem.
• Looking beyond its gate-all-around RibbonFET, Intel is mastering the coming post-FinFET era with an approach to stacking multiple (CMOS) transistors that aims to achieve a maximized 30% to 50% logic scaling improvement for the continued advancement of Moore’s Law by fitting more transistors per square millimeter.
• Intel is also paving the way for Moore’s Law advancement into the angstrom era with forward-looking research showing how novel materials just a few atoms thick can be used to make transistors that overcome the limitations of conventional silicon channels, enabling millions more transistors per die area for evermore powerful computing in the next decade.

congrats, you evaded the really simple question (i'll take that as a "no") while proving my point - foveros gets basically one whole sentence.

 

[Clifford_Harris]

...so intel's wrong, then?

congrats on walking into a pick your poison scenario that i didn't even set up.

A negative non-GAAP cashflow is the same as negative income?

Okeydokey, let's make a bet on whether or not intel is profitable for the 2022 year when their earnings are released next year.

 

[rob mafia]

A negative non-GAAP cashflow is the same as negative income?

technically, no. capex is calculated differently than opex.

in the context of 'intel's sitting on piles of cash' that was the basic premise of a few certain someones... yes.

 

[elreece]

@rob mafia what do you do for work? Just curious you seem to be pretty up to date with tech news and the space.

I have no thoughts on intel V AMD debate going on just wanted to know if this is a professional interest or just a hobby.

 

[Smokes]

I can’t read the whole thread but can someone explain it and dumb it down for me. I was under the impression that Intel is good great cause they about to spend like 100 Billion or something building a massive manufacturing plant in US and Europe in the next few yrs. They even promised 4 Billion to the building here in Rio Rancho NM.

so how are they fucked? Do they not have the 100 Billion?

 

[Madmick]

I can’t read the whole thread but can someone explain it and dumb it down for me. I was under the impression that Intel is good great cause they about to spend like 100 Billion or something building a massive manufacturing plant in US and Europe in the next few yrs. They even promised 4 Billion to the building here in Rio Rancho NM.

so how are they fucked? Do they not have the 100 Billion?

LOL, don't overthink it, a resident hater is making a public fool of himself trying to complicate the easily, plainly graspable truth you've just laid out.

They just announced $19bn more new building in Germany two days ago. That brings up the total to $90bn in Europe alone (actually probably closer to $100bn, I'm just too lazy to add it up). That's in addition to the over $40bn they've spent expanding manufacturing in the USA.

 

[Clifford_Harris]

technically, no. capex is calculated differently than opex.

in the context of 'intel's sitting on piles of cash' that was the basic premise of a few certain someones... yes.

Oh ok.

I asked you specifically when Intel posted a loss for net income, and you replied talking about some speech that Intel's CEO made where he was talking about negative cashflow not negative income.

Yet for some inexplicable reason you dumped making the bet about Intel having negative net income for this year.

 

[rob mafia]

Oh ok.

I asked you specifically when Intel posted a loss for net income, and you replied talking about some speech that Intel's CEO made where he was talking about negative cashflow not negative income.

Yet for some inexplicable reason you dumped making the bet about Intel having negative net income for this year.

it's as if i already covered that, or something. it's as if i even answered in a technical sense vs realistic/contextual sense, too. weird.

oh, wait. i did.

@rob mafia what do you do for work? Just curious you seem to be pretty up to date with tech news and the space.

I have no thoughts on intel V AMD debate going on just wanted to know if this is a professional interest or just a hobby.

a bit of both. it was a hobby, i guess. after about 8 series of 30dte intc puts bought a few days before ERs... i guess it's been a professional interest.

 

[rob mafia]

I can’t read the whole thread but can someone explain it and dumb it down for me. I was under the impression that Intel is good great cause they about to spend like 100 Billion or something building a massive manufacturing plant in US and Europe in the next few yrs. They even promised 4 Billion to the building here in Rio Rancho NM.

so how are they fucked? Do they not have the 100 Billion?

correct. they're taking on debt (and seem to be relying on future govt handouts/bailouts). they're operating in the red and promising delusional plans of "unquestioned leadership" while literally paying their competitor to fab for them.

it's 99% hubris, as intel sat with their hands up their asses and spent $200B rewarding themselves with buybacks (and therefore) bonuses, instead of buying euv from the one company that makes them. while intel fucked off for years, tsm and samsung loaded up on euv... and amd/nvidia streamlined their businesses to horizontal. the result was edited into the first post - intel has shrank over the last 3 years while the sector doubled.