Tech "intel's f-----"

[rob mafia]

Actually the labs an fans can be put up pretty quickly thanks to advances in robotics and engineering improvements though the prices for the equipment is sky-high now. Manufacturing processes have improved by a lot but Manufacturing to sub 10nm takes considerable engineering an costs.

it's not just prices... although, that's one of my points - tsmc's 5nm fab cost $~18B. intel just claimed to be building 2 fabs for $20B, which doesn't seem realistic.

but more importantly, all the euv lithography machines come from asml. and asml's been booked solid for... years? and since tsmc/samsung have already been expanding, we know they're getting the next buttload of them. we also know from asml's financials that intel hasn't been ordering them.

i don't think it's even possible for them to build a new fab in a year or whatever. even their own estimates (which have been crap) put it in late 2023/2024, and even that seems to be pushing it.

 

[PEB]

it's not just prices... although, that's one of my points - tsmc's 5nm fab cost $~18B. intel just claimed to be building 2 fabs for $20B, which doesn't seem realistic.

but more importantly, all the euv lithography machines come from asml. and asml's been booked solid for... years? and since tsmc/samsung have already been expanding, we know they're getting the next buttload of them. we also know from asml's financials that intel hasn't been ordering them.

i don't think it's even possible for them to build a new fab in a year or whatever. even their own estimates (which have been crap) put it in late 2023/2024, and even that seems to be pushing it.

The reason for the cost disparity could be the size of the production lines. Intel also may have decided two factories vs one is to keep their own lines separate. Intel owns tons of patents to that may get them access to manufacturing hardware for lower costs. People have to remember Fairchild created the semiconductor process an Intel acquired some of these patents. Of course patents expire but contracts made with partners continue to be enforced. That's why AMD could have never been acquired by Samsung Intel would have killed it. Pretty much all the lithography equipment comes from 1 US based company.

 

[PEB]

More Intel info.

"
Intel's new chief executive has told the BBC it is not "palatable" that so many computer chips are made in Asia.

The majority of processors are currently manufactured in the region, with Taiwan's TSMC and South Korea's Samsung the dominant players.

US-based Intel plans to set up a new division to make chips for other companies based on their own designs.

Until now, its focus had been on manufacturing its own chips in its factories across the world.

Pat Gelsinger has said Intel will invest $20bn (£14.6bn) in two new fabrication plants in the US state of Arizona, in addition to a major expansion of an existing Irish facility in County Kildare.

"Having 80% of all supply in Asia simply isn't a palatable manner for the world to have its view of the most critical technology," Mr Gelsinger said.

"Every smartphone, every telemedicine, every remote worker, every remote education, every autonomous vehicle, every aspect of humanity is becoming more digital.

"And when it becomes digital, it runs on semiconductors.

"This is the heart of every aspect of human existence going forward. And the world needs a more balanced supply chain to accomplish that. We're stepping in.""


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/technology-56512430

 

[rob mafia]

More Intel info.

"
Intel's new chief executive has told the BBC it is not "palatable" that so many computer chips are made in Asia.

The majority of processors are currently manufactured in the region, with Taiwan's TSMC and South Korea's Samsung the dominant players.

US-based Intel plans to set up a new division to make chips for other companies based on their own designs.

Until now, its focus had been on manufacturing its own chips in its factories across the world.

Pat Gelsinger has said Intel will invest $20bn (£14.6bn) in two new fabrication plants in the US state of Arizona, in addition to a major expansion of an existing Irish facility in County Kildare.

"Having 80% of all supply in Asia simply isn't a palatable manner for the world to have its view of the most critical technology," Mr Gelsinger said.

"Every smartphone, every telemedicine, every remote worker, every remote education, every autonomous vehicle, every aspect of humanity is becoming more digital.

"And when it becomes digital, it runs on semiconductors.

"This is the heart of every aspect of human existence going forward. And the world needs a more balanced supply chain to accomplish that. We're stepping in.""


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/technology-56512430

...no idea why you posted this. or why you said more info, when there isn't any.

 

[PEB]

...no idea why you posted this. or why you said more info, when there isn't any.

Simple it contains statements by Pat over why the US needs to become more independent with chip production. These statements confirm why Intel is ramping up production in the US. Pat also talked about Ireland investment on expansion. Previously there was no mention I saw where they stated that Pat talked about Ireland expansion and reasoning for US expansion.

 

[rob mafia]

Simple it contains statements by Pat over why the US needs to become more independent with chip production. These statements confirm why Intel is ramping up production in the US. Pat also talked about Ireland investment on expansion. Previously there was no mention I saw where they stated that Pat talked about Ireland expansion and reasoning for US expansion.

have you been in a cave for the past 2 years?

why do you think tsmc and samsung are already building fabs in the usa?




edit: and more and more, the skeptic in me is wondering if this is all just an extension of the begging the us govt for money/intervention that bob swan did.

Besides Intel, the Biden administration may be close to lending a hand following their new review of the industry. President Biden said in late February he will push for $37 billion in funding to increase chip manufacturing in the country.

Said Gelsinger of the potential government support, "It's a major, major statement by the administration. The winds are flowing in the right direction. Our strategy that we announced is simply to align with those directions in a very substantial way."

 

[PEB]

TSMC and Apple are getting closer an closer together not good for others as they work on 4nm technology and ahead.

 

[rob mafia]

for the lulz, thought i'd bump this with an update since the wr thread proved someone's still salty.

market caps at time of thread's origins to now (top 10 of soxx + tsmc)

intel:
2021 $217.00 B
2020 $204.16 B
2019 $256.75 B

nvidia:
2021 $503.08 B
2020 $323.24 B
2019 $144.00 B

amd:
2021 $134.09 B
2020 $110.42 B
2019 $53.65 B

tsmc:
2021 $598.98 B
2020 $488.12 B
2019 $286.57 B

txn:
2021 $174.20 B
2020 $150.66 B
2019 $119.57 B

broadcom:
2021 $199.45 B
2020 $178.07 B
2019 $125.71 B

qualcomm:
2021 $167.66 B
2020 $172.29 B
2019 $100.84 B

marvell:
2021 $49.48 B
2020 $31.93 B
2019 $17.81 B

kla:
2021 $50.07 B
2020 $39.99 B
2019 $27.94 B

asml:
2021 $323.29 B
2020 $205.12 B
2019 $124.00 B

analog devices:
2021 $62.73 B
2020 $54.58 B
2019 $43.76 B




so intel lost 15% of their market cap in 2 years while everyone else saw massive gains. but what the hell did i know, amirite?

and the soxx was at $213.79 on 10/4/19. it's now at $444

intel lost 15% when the average (including intel's dead weight) gained 108%

 

[PEB]

for the lulz, thought i'd bump this with an update since the wr thread proved someone's still salty.

market caps at time of thread's origins to now (top 10 of soxx + tsmc)

intel:
2021 $217.00 B
2020 $204.16 B
2019 $256.75 B

nvidia:
2021 $503.08 B
2020 $323.24 B
2019 $144.00 B

amd:
2021 $134.09 B
2020 $110.42 B
2019 $53.65 B

tsmc:
2021 $598.98 B
2020 $488.12 B
2019 $286.57 B

txn:
2021 $174.20 B
2020 $150.66 B
2019 $119.57 B

broadcom:
2021 $199.45 B
2020 $178.07 B
2019 $125.71 B

qualcomm:
2021 $167.66 B
2020 $172.29 B
2019 $100.84 B

marvell:
2021 $49.48 B
2020 $31.93 B
2019 $17.81 B

kla:
2021 $50.07 B
2020 $39.99 B
2019 $27.94 B

asml:
2021 $323.29 B
2020 $205.12 B
2019 $124.00 B

analog devices:
2021 $62.73 B
2020 $54.58 B
2019 $43.76 B




so intel lost 15% of their market cap in 2 years while everyone else saw massive gains. but what the hell did i know, amirite?

Every one thought AMD was dead in the water in 2011. People wrote them off at 1.25 cents a share but who knew? Tech companies go through cycles where they take risks an hire new talent to revive the company. Intel is the 2nd oldest microprocessor company an holds easily the largest IP library. Remember AMD is beholden to Intel over X86 patents. This race is hardly over an Intel already has plenty of believes.

 

[rob mafia]

Every one thought AMD was dead in the water in 2011. People wrote them off at 1.25 cents a share but who knew? Tech companies go through cycles where they take risks an hire new talent to revive the company. Intel is the 2nd oldest microprocessor company an holds easily the largest IP library. Remember AMD is beholden to Intel over X86 patents. This race is hardly over an Intel already has plenty of believes.

...k, maybe you guys can get in your time machine and change the results.

 

[jefferz]

Every one thought AMD was dead in the water in 2011. People wrote them off at 1.25 cents a share but who knew? Tech companies go through cycles where they take risks an hire new talent to revive the company. Intel is the 2nd oldest microprocessor company an holds easily the largest IP library. Remember AMD is beholden to Intel over X86 patents. This race is hardly over an Intel already has plenty of believes.

And Intel is beholden to AMD for x64. Both need each other to survive.

 

[Madmick]

I saw that this morning. I suppose it isn't that surprising. That's why AMD slashed prices on their CPUs mid-June. It's why they're dropping processors like that R7-5700G at such insanely low MSRP presently. You don't cut prices unless things aren't selling. It does mean the price cuts won't be temporary, and they won't be restoring the MSRP of the original Zen 3 lineup. Their share of the desktop CPU market already decreased 2.3% between Q1 and Q2 this year. Since it looks like they're dropping again in Q3, that means their desktop CPU market share of new sales will be less than 20%, currently.

But even below MSRP they're making a tidier profit than ever before, and they continue to attract buyers with disposable income since they offer the best raw gaming CPUs in the world.

 

[rob mafia]

I saw that this morning. I suppose it isn't that surprising. That's why AMD slashed prices on their CPUs mid-June. It's why they're dropping processors like that R7-5700G at such insanely low MSRP presently. You don't cut prices unless things aren't selling. It does mean the price cuts won't be temporary, and they won't be restoring the MSRP of the original Zen 3 lineup. Their share of the desktop CPU market already decreased 2.3% between Q1 and Q2 this year. Since it looks like they're dropping again in Q3, that means their desktop CPU market share of new sales will be less than 20%, currently.

But even below MSRP they're making a tidier profit than ever before, and they continue to attract buyers with disposable income since they offer the best raw gaming CPUs in the world.

it was largely by design. supply constrained with the best products, they increased their margins. the timing of the price cuts is also in-line with their increased wafer supply from tsmc.


edit: lolz @ the last 4 posts being moved here.

 

[Madmick]

Wrong. The increased wafer supply coincided with their processors finally being obtainable online at MSRP. I know you're gonna blah blah blah about irrelevant Microcenter prices that aren't available to the vast majority of the North American population. Meanwhile, in the real world, across unofficial online aftermarket resellers, here was the average pricing of Zen 3 processors. There were articles in the tech sphere about this. The gamut of Zen 3 processors hadn't dropped below this threshold until two months after headlines about the renegotiated agreement between AMD and TSMC. Meanwhile, as one can observe, the 5800X dropped to this threshold two months before the announcement.

Obviously the timing of the announcement had no impact on the decline in the price AMD CPUs command.

This had nothing to do with supply issues, and everything to do with Intel flat out kicking their ass on value throughout the first half of this year.

"By design". LOL. An interesting strategy to lose market share without increasing your prices.

 

[Madmick]

Remember kids...

"Intel is fucked!"

 

[rob mafia]

Wrong. The increased wafer supply coincided with their processors finally being obtainable online at MSRP

*facepalm*

amazing, since the thread you just moved the posts from chronicled the 5900x/5950x constantly at msrp, the 5800x ~always (since at least january) UNDER msrp, and the 5600x constantly popping up at msrp/being sold out and repeat for months, but being easily found at msrp since ~2-3 months before the increased wafers.

hence, the various postings/links/pics (even of my freakin' cart) from micro center, best buy, antonline (which you have ninja deleted EVERY post about, for reasons unknown), etc.

but for more lulz, the next sentence was:

I know you're gonna blah blah blah about irrelevant Microcenter prices that aren't available to the vast majority of the North American population. Meanwhile, in the real world, across unofficial online aftermarket resellers, here was the average pricing of Zen 3 processors here

which is hilarious, since i never argued anything about "average" prices and "average" prices being higher than msrp doesn't mean that they weren't available at msrp - but that they were also sold above msrp - which no one denied. derp.

"By design". LOL. An interesting strategy to lose market share without increasing your prices.

fucking backwards, as usual. you fucked up the tense and seemed to forget that they raised the prices for launch. and gained market share, even. more importantly, gained margin.

there's a reason why you have to resort to moving goalposts (ie: that the 5700g was better than the 5800x because the 5800x is $449 [it's not. it's $349] to moving goalposts alllll the way to suggesting that we should actually sell our GPUs/CPUs to buy/use a 5700g because it's a negative cost [lolz!] ) and then ninja deleting all of it (including a post the next day to @SaiWa with an antonline [official amd retailer, btw] link gfor $349 5800Xs with free shipping) and etc - you're just wrong. you were wrong 2 nights ago, you were wrong last night, and you'll probably delete this shit, too - because you're still wrong. and you can't handle it/people knowing, so you censor the shit out of this sub.

(and i have screenshots of most of it, if anyone's interested).

 

[rob mafia]

Remember kids...

"Intel is fucked!"

umm... yes, and lolz @ even posting this... these charts are showing intel losing share consistently, especially in the most important segment - server. during unprecedented demand. and with having a fab.

 

[Madmick]

umm... yes, and lolz @ even posting this... these charts are showing intel losing share consistently, especially in the most important segment - server. during unprecedented demand. and with having a fab.

It shows Desktop CPU share increased.

 

[rob mafia]

It shows Desktop CPU share increased.

...while server (the most important) decreased. as well as mobile.



it's as if epyc takes priority from desktop, or something...

 

[Madmick]

...while server (the most important) decreased. as well as mobile.



it's as if epyc takes priority from desktop, or something...

Concession accepted.