Economy Industrial High Tech (Redux)

[Deorum]

Wow, my godmother lives near the Cardinals stadium. Been there a lot, but not for 15 years now. Never realized it went so tech heavy. Back then it was mostly offices for major companies looking for cheaper places to have their employees do stuff.

Yeah, PHX went from a lowly call center hub to the Silicon Desert and a hotbed of industrial tech manufacturing. The amount of work we've had for corporate office buildings, warehouses and factories has been absolutely relentless for the last decade.

 

[ElKarlo]

Yeah, PHX went from a lowly call center hub to the Silicon Desert and a hotbed of industrial tech manufacturing. The amount of work we've had for corporate office buildings, warehouses and factories has been absolutely relentless for the last decade.

It’s a lot more so than I thought. Think Phoenix got its start by being a cheap place for banks to put their back offices.

Wish my current city would do more. Places like in Kyushu have had their local governments along with their regional train companies start investing in the infrastructure and what not and has yielded results. I’m in northern Japan and basically unless someone wants to do it, the city doesn’t do anything nor does anything to encourage any outside investment. I’m jelly

 

[Deorum]

It’s a lot more so than I thought. Think Phoenix got its start by being a cheap place for banks to put their back offices.

Wish my current city would do more. Places like in Kyushu have had their local governments along with their regional train companies start investing in the infrastructure and what not and has yielded results. I’m in northern Japan and basically unless someone wants to do it, the city doesn’t do anything nor does anything to encourage any outside investment. I’m jelly

I'll be looking forward to TSMC building a dedicated R&D center stateside as well once the CCP inevitably starts to really turn up the geopolitical heat with continued threats of taking Taiwan by force during the 2020s. It isn't just a manufacturing hub for the likes of Applied, ASML, Intel, NXP and TSMC but there are a couple multi-billion dollar SC firms actually headquartered here as well: Microchip Technology and ON Semiconductor, they fall just shy of being Top 15 in global revenue.

 

[Deorum]

Yeah 2020 was a great year for China. It would be pretty hard for Biden to be any better for China than Trump was. From leaving the TPP entirely for China to control, to the steel and aluminum tariffs, to the section 301 tariffs (lmao these never work, Reagan famously called them stupid), to siding with China over Hong Kong... I mean it’s laughable to think Trump did well in curbing China in any way.

DJT's foreign policy towards the CCP probably could've been more successful if he didn't simultaneously start a trade war with the EU, threaten East Asian allies and claim Canada was a threat to America's national security (along with tariffs placed on them).

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

DJT's foreign policy towards the CCP probably could've been more successful if he didn't simultaneously start a trade war with the EU, threaten East Asian allies and claim Canada was a threat to America's national security (along with tariffs placed on them).

Sure. That’s why leaving the TPP was so dumb though. If he hated the deal so much he should have sought to alter it to make it more favorable, not just leave our Asian allies high and dry. You need coalitions if you want influence.

 

[ElKarlo]

I'll be looking forward to TSMC building a dedicated R&D center stateside as well once the CCP inevitably starts to really turn up the geopolitical heat with continued threats of taking Taiwan by force during the 2020s. It isn't just a manufacturing hub for the likes of Applied, ASML, Intel, NXP and TSMC but there are a couple multi-billion dollar SC firms actually headquartered here as well: Microchip Technology and ON Semiconductor, they fall just shy of being Top 15 in global revenue.

Yeah I could see many Taiwanese companies hedging their bets. There’s a big threat ha hung over their heads and it’s only going to worsen

what else meshes with semis? I wonder if medical devices and other precision machines would be a good secondary field to peruse

 

[ElKarlo]

DJT's foreign policy towards the CCP probably could've been more successful if he didn't simultaneously start a trade war with the EU, threaten East Asian allies and claim Canada was a threat to America's national security (along with tariffs placed on them).

Agreed. He did say too much at once. Should’ve rallied everyone around against China and hammered them. Would’ve been great. So many could’ve moments and basically we’re going back to bending over for that Chinese money

 

[Deorum]

Yeah I could see many Taiwanese companies hedging their bets. There’s a big threat ha hung over their heads and it’s only going to worsen

what else meshes with semis? I wonder if medical devices and other precision machines would be a good secondary field to peruse

Everything, really. The state in general is gaining a foothold in aerospace. Northrop Grumman recently expanded its campus right next door to Intel's massive new fab, and its responsible for the majority of the corporation's launch vehicle design, development, manufacturing and testing; Boeing builds the AH-64 Apache here; and then there's the Raytheon operation down in Tucson...



Duh.

 

[ElKarlo]

Everything, really. The state in general is gaining a foothold in aerospace. Northrop Grumman recently expanded its campus right next door to Intel's massive new fab, and its responsible for the majority of the corporation's launch vehicle design, development, manufacturing and testing; Boeing builds the AH-64 Apache here; and then there's the Raytheon operation down in Tucson...



Duh.

Makes sense as aerospace is so high tech that it needs a lot of the same precision

look at Russia. They need a new crop of nazi scientists to get their aerospace industry world class again. Their old nazis got old and died

 

[Oceanmachine]

Do you like our "Boomers", @KnightTemplar? There's 14 active Ohio-Class nuclear submarines prowling the oceans virtually undetectable and people at the highest levels of government that don't even know where the fuck they are at any given time. The Trident II ballistic missiles they have on board re-enter the atmosphere at Mach 24 and split up into eight independent re-entry vehicles that each carry a 475 kiloton nuclear warhead. A full deployment from just one of them would let off 192 warheads in less than a minute and strike targets from distances of up to 12,000 km. So 2,688 nukes in 60 seconds or less if they all got busy. And that's just the SLBM leg of triad. The UK has a similar setup, but far less subs and no land or air based delivery systems.

Some could fit 12 MIRV.

If I was president id use them lolz. All that firepower and nobody uses the trigger except old Truman

 

[Deorum]

Makes sense as aerospace is so high tech that it needs a lot of the same precision

look at Russia. They need a new crop of nazi scientists to get their aerospace industry world class again. Their old nazis got old and died.

Oh, man. You're tempting me to nerd the fuck out on the space race era. But yeah, the foundation of the Soviet rocket program was dependent on V-2 technology and Korolev's initial R1/R2 rockets were just larger copycats with heavy assistance from engineers they had taken out of Germany as part of their own post-war spoils. Ofc he was magnificent in his own right and a worthy competitor to Wernher von Braun, who had a staggering impact not just on ICBM development and space exploration, but western culture and humanity on the whole.

 

[ElKarlo]

Oh, man. You're tempting me to nerd the fuck out on the space race era. But yeah, the foundation of the Soviet rocket program was dependent on V-2 technology and Korolev's initial R1/R2 rockets were just larger copycats with heavy assistance from engineers they had taken out of Germany as part of their own post-war spoils. Ofc he was magnificent in his own right and a worthy competitor to Wernher von Braun, who had a staggering impact not just on ICBM development and space exploration, but western culture and humanity on the whole.

Dude, everything I do I need out on. the soviets did have some decent ore wwii aviation. It’s just all their looting of Eastern Europe and northern China have them a temporary boost. They used that economic boost and threw basically all of it into the military and the Air Force. Which is why, even with the opportunity the USSR never developed a true commercial industry

 

[ElKarlo]

https://seekingalpha.com/news/36500...lking-tsmc-samsung-outsourcing-decision-nears Intel really didn’t think about this very well

 

[Deorum]

https://seekingalpha.com/news/36500...lking-tsmc-samsung-outsourcing-decision-nears Intel really didn’t think about this very well

It's just such an enormous blow to the image, reputation and standard that they built, earned and then maintained for half a century. Moore's Law comes from Intel's co-founder, it invented the world's first commercial microprocessor, has been fundamental and at the forefront of the advances in computing for decades, ditto being on the cutting edge of process technology and advanced manufacturing for decades... until now.

They'll ultimately recover, because they have to, but this sucks. They should definitely go with TSMC for contract manufacturing because even though Samsung is predominantly based around the design and production of DRAM chips, it's far more of a direct competitor.

 

[ElKarlo]

It's just such an enormous blow to the image, reputation and standard that they built, earned and then maintained for half a century. Moore's Law comes from Intel's co-founder, it invented the world's first commercial microprocessor, has been fundamental and at the forefront of the advances in computing for decades, ditto being on the cutting edge of process technology and advanced manufacturing for decades... until now.

They'll ultimately recover, because they have to, but this sucks. They should definitely go with TSMC for contract manufacturing because even though Samsung is predominantly based around the design and production of DRAM chips, it's far more of a direct competitor.

Look at IBM they have had the same problem as Intel. Went from being the pioneer of IT and cloud to being a distant 4th or so. didn’t realize Moore was an Intel employee

think Foxconn is the better partner as they are more a contract manufacturer than Samsung who is as you said a competitor.
GE, IBM and Boeing have all suffered badly from management that tried to plead Wall Street first and make good products second. While AMD, Honeywell and all the good cloud companies make good products first and foremost.
Hopefully this doesn’t mean a trend down for Intel. Wonder if there’s a small or medium acquisition that would help them out here?

 

[Deorum]

Look at IBM they have had the same problem as Intel. Went from being the pioneer of IT and cloud to being a distant 4th or so. didn’t realize Moore was an Intel employee

think Foxconn is the better partner as they are more a contract manufacturer than Samsung who is as you said a competitor.
GE, IBM and Boeing have all suffered badly from management that tried to plead Wall Street first and make good products second. While AMD, Honeywell and all the good cloud companies make good products first and foremost.
Hopefully this doesn’t mean a trend down for Intel. Wonder if there’s a small or medium acquisition that would help them out here?

The Traitorous Eight was a group of eight employees who left Shockley Semiconductor Laboratory in 1957 to found Fairchild Semiconductor. William Shockley had recruited a group of young PhD graduates with the goal to develop and produce new semiconductor devices. While Shockley had received a Nobel Prize in Physics and was an experienced researcher, his management of the group was authoritarian and unpopular. After the demand for Shockley to be replaced was rebuffed, the eight left to form their own company.

The eight who left Shockley Semiconductor were Robert Noyce, Gordon Moore, Julius Blank, Victor Grinich, Jean Hoerni, Eugene Kleiner, Jay Last, and Sheldon Roberts. On September 18, 1957, they formed Fairchild Semiconductor. The newly founded company soon grew into a leader of the industry. In 1960, it became an incubator of Silicon Valley and was directly or indirectly involved in the creation of dozens of corporations, including Intel and AMD. [note 1][note 2]

Intel Corporation is an American multinational corporation and technology company headquartered in Santa Clara, California. It is the world's largest and highest-valued semiconductor chip manufacturer on the basis of revenue. It was founded on July 18, 1968 by industry pioneers Robert Noyce and Gordon Moore (of Moore's Law), and is associated with the executive leadership and vision of Andrew Grove. The company's name was conceived as portmanteau of the words integrated and electronics, with co-founder Noyce having been a key inventor of the integrated circuit. The fact that "intel" is the term for intelligence information also made the name appropriate.

 

[Deorum]

Look at IBM they have had the same problem as Intel. Went from being the pioneer of IT and cloud to being a distant 4th or so. didn’t realize Moore was an Intel employee

think Foxconn is the better partner as they are more a contract manufacturer than Samsung who is as you said a competitor.
GE, IBM and Boeing have all suffered badly from management that tried to plead Wall Street first and make good products second. While AMD, Honeywell and all the good cloud companies make good products first and foremost.
Hopefully this doesn’t mean a trend down for Intel. Wonder if there’s a small or medium acquisition that would help them out here?

Intel hasn't lost the ability to engineer, but they've always kept production in-house (and mainly in the US at that). There are advantages to maintaining independent end-to-end control over your products, but it's a huge strain to pull off in the modern day industry and can become a significant hindrance when problems arise. It's their manufacturing that is broken, it can no longer keep up with the chips they want to produce. They have bread and butter revenue streams that'll keep them profitable for years as is, but they're inevitably either going to need to fix the problem or go full fabless.

 

[Deorum]

http://www.oregonlive.com/silicon-f...ring-crisis-puts-company-at-a-crossroads.html

August 2020

Intel has made sport of defying the doubters – deploying new materials, remaking the transistor and performing other tricks to enable continued innovation. Now, something has gone terribly wrong.

Three generations of Intel chip technology have all been hobbled by delays and setbacks. Its current 10-nanometer chips were four years late when they hit the market last winter, an eternity in the fast-paced tech sector. Then the company shocked investors last month by disclosing that its forthcoming 7nm chips, previously due in 2021, are already running a year behind.

Intel, long the world’s most advanced chip producer, now clearly trails rival Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., which has continued delivering successive chip upgrades on schedule. And in a humiliating development, Intel said it has “contingency plans” to outsource its own production to contractors like TSMC if Intel proves incapable of manufacturing its most advanced chips itself.

Manufacturing computer chips is an extraordinarily complex process, using light to imprint microscopic patterns and then etching away at the surrounding materials. It’s a laborious, exacting process repeated in multiple steps for each chip, when even the tiniest error will wreck the entire product. Defects are common, but usually manageable. Intel and other chipmakers simply discard the chips that don’t meet their performance specifications. The functioning chips are valuable enough that Intel frequently enjoys gross profit margins around 60%.

What’s happened recently is that Intel hasn’t been able to control the rate of defects in its newest chips. That means there are so many flaws in the early prototypes that it takes much longer than usual to refine the manufacturing process and reduce the number of defects to an acceptable level. To some degree, this appears to be the inevitable consequence of the minute scales at which Intel operates.

 

[DaleBoca]

CHIP’s?

 

[ElKarlo]

http://www.oregonlive.com/silicon-f...ring-crisis-puts-company-at-a-crossroads.html

August 2020

Intel has made sport of defying the doubters – deploying new materials, remaking the transistor and performing other tricks to enable continued innovation. Now, something has gone terribly wrong.

Three generations of Intel chip technology have all been hobbled by delays and setbacks. Its current 10-nanometer chips were four years late when they hit the market last winter, an eternity in the fast-paced tech sector. Then the company shocked investors last month by disclosing that its forthcoming 7nm chips, previously due in 2021, are already running a year behind.

Intel, long the world’s most advanced chip producer, now clearly trails rival Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., which has continued delivering successive chip upgrades on schedule. And in a humiliating development, Intel said it has “contingency plans” to outsource its own production to contractors like TSMC if Intel proves incapable of manufacturing its most advanced chips itself.

Manufacturing computer chips is an extraordinarily complex process, using light to imprint microscopic patterns and then etching away at the surrounding materials. It’s a laborious, exacting process repeated in multiple steps for each chip, when even the tiniest error will wreck the entire product. Defects are common, but usually manageable. Intel and other chipmakers simply discard the chips that don’t meet their performance specifications. The functioning chips are valuable enough that Intel frequently enjoys gross profit margins around 60%.

What’s happened recently is that Intel hasn’t been able to control the rate of defects in its newest chips. That means there are so many flaws in the early prototypes that it takes much longer than usual to refine the manufacturing process and reduce the number of defects to an acceptable level. To some degree, this appears to be the inevitable consequence of the minute scales at which Intel operates.

Interesting, so they finally hit a level where defects are too common And correcting it via manufacturing changes takes too long? Wow, guess they’ve got a ceiling for their ability to produce for the meantime
No one else is having this problem? AMD NXP? well there needs to be better allocated Research and development then that or start headhuntering