Crime Incels: how online extremism is changing

[ReligiousDiscipline]

Ok but what do you think that poster was really talking about, the way it should be practiced or the way it generally is practiced? Because right now it has a reputation as being a misogynistic religion because it is largely implemented that way. Im sure that incels feel that Iran is getting a lot of things right.

I wouldn't say Islam is generally practiced as a misogynist religion. There are certainly misogynist Muslims and certain cultures throughout the world where Islam is the dominant religion and are oppressive to women, but generally speaking, most Muslim men treat women and children well. There is obviously a reason Islam is growing and many of the converts are women.

Iran is facing criticism from Muslims and I highly doubt people will stop being Muslim once the regime falls.

An incel converting to Islam isn't going to miraculously help him obtain a submissive wife he can dominate and treat harshly. I find Muslim woman aren't exactly push-overs. Many of the Muslim women I know are very strong willed.

 

[panamaican]

Yes, I think that's all correct, but would say it's not just a matter of shifting behavior (not that you are saying it is). The pie has indeed shrunk in terms of people's financial capability for marriage and children, and also shrunk culturally as there's increased stress on consumption of the prime consideration of life and family generally being under the radar, often at people's expense because it's too late. The trendlines are glaring and obvious.

I agree that there's increased focus on consumption over family although I'm not sure that the financial capability for marriage and children has shrunk. More that the perception of what is expected has shifted. Whereas before people might have been fine with a 1500 sq.ft house sending 2-4 kids to public school, now people need the 2500 sq.ft. house and the kids have to go to private school. But if someone was willing to accept the former, it's not beyond most people's financial capability. That's the consumption piece that you alluded to.

 

[Bojka]

I wonder if it would work with the specific group though. Incels mostly want traditional women. Modern women are whores, sluts, feminists, etc. So an actual prostitute is even worse.

People like to vent. They don't even necessarily understand what their issues are or what they even want and the internet merely allows for these support group echo chambers to form and you get this tribal blaming of some other group for their problems. Anyway, it would definitely help. A lot of these men probably have no experience with women at all and this could get them that in some form and then they could get over the 'hump' so to speak.

With marijuana being legalized, drug possession/use being decriminalized, it's simply ridiculous that selling/paying for sex is still criminal. That progression in our culture is way behind imo.

 

[evansusmc2]

I think every guy can get a girl.

Definitely not 100% of them. I'm not talking about the ones that are horribly unattractive either. I am referring to the amount of females that are sub par that believe they deserve better and would rather die alone than settle for a man that is their equal. This leaves a disturbing % of dudes without women.

Personally I got issues with getting a gf. But its purely down to my preferences. I want good looking girl, top shelf, end of story. Nothing average. But then how can I expect to get top shelf when I am myself average. This is where escorts come into play which I do use. So I totally dont understand that movement at all. You want a gf? Have a realistic expectations of what can you get.

Honest man. I respect that.

 

[Bojka]

I agree that there's increased focus on consumption over family although I'm not sure that the financial capability for marriage and children has shrunk. More that the perception of what is expected has shifted. Whereas before people might have been fine with a 1500 sq.ft house sending 2-4 kids to public school, now people need the 2500 sq.ft. house and the kids have to go to private school. But if someone was willing to accept the former, it's not beyond most people's financial capability. That's the consumption piece that you alluded to.

Even 1100 sq ft houses where I live are expensive as f compared to before. Even in my old neighbourhood.

 

[Nameless King]

I don't get why dudes are so obsessed with beauty.

Is it because you're only attracted to beautiful women or is it because you think beautiful women are a status symbol to impress people around you?

I'll tell you a secret, nobody is impressed with an unattractive man with an attractive woman. People will shit on that more than they will praise it no different than buying a car you can't afford. It's because they know it's a bullshit relationship, meaning those women rarely love their caretakers.

Women are the worst in that regard. You will rather see good looking guy with average girl than other way round. Unless the guy is rich.

 

[Nameless King]

Paying for sex still being illegal is beyond absurd. That's the most obvious change to make.

Its illegal on paper only. Look at all these ads. You pay for the time, not for sex. And that changes it all. And the reason it says its illegal is because there is no way to regulate it properly. How can you tell how many customers girl xyz had?

 

[Bojka]

Its illegal on paper only. Look at all these ads. You pay for the time, not for sex. And that changes it all. And the reason it says its illegal is because there is no way to regulate it properly. How can you tell how many customers girl xyz had?

You can pay someone to do pretty much anything else. You can pay someone to shovel snow for you and there's no way to regulate that.

Brothels existed for millennia. Or at least I remember reading about them in Rome in antiquity. The criminalization of them seems to have roots in religion, although I'm not sure about that.

 

[cincymma79]

That's just sad dude. My life is easier since having a wife. She has a good job, she's a great mother and wife and we both split all the expenses of our home and bills. I think living alone is tougher in today's economy. You have all those expenses but now all of that has to get paid on a single income. Adding another person into the family doesn't double the spending, you just have to pay for more food, an additional person's health insurance. That's why young people move back to their families now.

I agree it’s sad but that’s the reality. Women have around 3/4 of the consumer debt and file for divorce about 3/4 of the time. They have no incentive to stay in the relationship since they can just take half of your shit when they leave. It’s a golden parachute.

 

[panamaican]

Even 1100 sq ft houses where I live are expensive as f compared to before. Even in my old neighbourhood.

Sure, everything's more expensive but they're a lot more affordable than the 2500-6000 options. And it's not just about the house, it's the whole array of things that people have gradually shifted from the "nice but not necessary" category into the "gotta have or I'm failing at life" category.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I wouldn't say Islam is generally practiced as a misogynist religion. There are certainly misogynist Muslims and certain cultures throughout the world where Islam is the dominant religion and are oppressive to women, but generally speaking, most Muslim men treat women and children well. There is obviously a reason Islam is growing and many of the converts are women.

Iran is facing criticism from Muslims and I highly doubt people will stop being Muslim once the regime falls.

An incel converting to Islam isn't going to miraculously help him obtain a submissive wife he can dominate and treat harshly. I find Muslim woman aren't exactly push-overs. Many of the Muslim women I know are very strong willed.

You're exactly right, if these incels think that simply by converting they are going to find some submissive wife with low standards then they are going to be severely disappointed. In some Muslim subcultures the women are more stuck up and materialist if anything. That's because while a romantic, individualist Western girl might be impressed by your sense of humor and look past your mediocre job, some trad South Asian or Arab girl isn't going to do the same.Her and her family are going to be looking for a man with a high status career in medicine, engineering, or tech and in general they are going to prefer to marry among themselves.

There are of course Muslim girls who aren't like that but they fall into two camps generally; Westernized camp and the devout camp. For the former girls you're going to run into the same issues a man would pursuing a non-Muslim Western girl. For the devout girls, yes they might look past your mediocre job but they are going to expect that you are a devout, practicing Muslim so you better get used to waking up before the crack of dawn and fasting for a month and you better work on your Arabic pronunciation.

 

[Hatorade]

Women are the worst in that regard. You will rather see good looking guy with average girl than other way round. Unless the guy is rich.

From my experience, you will rarely if ever see a good looking guy with an unattractive woman unless she's a woman he has children with that became unattractive.
The sugar Mama thing is extremely rare with a good looking guy. In that scenario, it's usually an average looking guy with a fat chick that pays the bills.

You will see attractive women with unattractive men all the time, but yes, it's usually for stability/wealth. Those are rarely happy relationships though. Sometimes those relationships are just simply a relationship with a large age Gap. Like like a 40year-old guy got with a 25 year old girl, but it's 10 years down the road, in the 35-year-old girl is still attractive, but the dude is old. Those relationships are often sad if the younger woman keeps her looks, because a lot of guys start to really get old at 50, and attractive women don't want to f*** an old man unless he's got money.

 

[Bojka]

Sure, everything's more expensive but they're a lot more affordable than the 2500-6000 options. And it's not just about the house, it's the whole array of things that people have gradually shifted from the "nice but not necessary" category into the "gotta have or I'm failing at life" category.

My mom's 1100 sq ft house is worth about 5 times as much as it was 30 years ago. And it's an old house. I don't know what it's like in your area, but nation wide in Canada this is beyond a crisis. I'm not in Vancouver or Toronto either. I'm in one of the more affordable regions.

 

[ReligiousDiscipline]

You're exactly right, if these incels think that simply by converting they are going to find some submissive wife with low standards then they are going to be severely disappointed. In some Muslim subcultures the women are more stuck up and materialist if anything. That's because while a romantic, individualist Western girl might be impressed by your sense of humor and look past your mediocre job, some trad South Asian or Arab girl isn't going to do the same.Her and her family are going to be looking for a man with a high status career in medicine, engineering, or tech and in general they are going to prefer to marry among themselves.

There are of course Muslim girls who aren't like that but they fall into two camps generally; Westernized camp and the devout camp. For the former girls you're going to run into the same issues a man would pursuing a non-Muslim Western girl. For the devout girls, yes they might look past your mediocre job but they are going to expect that you are a devout, practicing Muslim so you better get used to waking up before the crack of dawn and fasting for a month and you better work on your Arabic pronunciation.

The major problem (which is painfully evident on Sherdog) is many people have absolutely no understanding of religion and the cultural, philosophical, theological, political, historical, social and traditional complexities and nuances that surround it. The only things they know about religion come from goofballs like Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins who have no idea what they are talking about and nonsense through the mainstream media and social media.

You have to be a complete idiot to think an incel will thrive in Islam.

 

[panamaican]

My mom's 1100 sq ft house is worth about 5 times as much as it was 30 years ago. And it's an old house. I don't know what it's like in your area, but nation wide in Canada this is beyond a crisis. I'm not in Vancouver or Toronto either. I'm in one of the more affordable regions.

I don't know what point you're trying to make. If you're making the point that the house is more expensive than before, okay. I never argued with that. I simply said it's a reasonable size and cheaper than going bigger. The first part someone might argue with, the 2nd part is pretty straightforward.

 

[Bojka]

I don't know what point you're trying to make. If you're making the point that the house is more expensive than before, okay. I never argued with that. I simply said it's a reasonable size and cheaper than going bigger. The first part someone might argue with, the 2nd part is pretty straightforward.

Well it is more than twice what it was before, accounting for 3% per year inflation. And wages have not kept up with inflation. So it's a double whammy. These two things combined are making it very difficult for many to afford a house. That's the point I'm making.

 

[panamaican]

From my experience, you will rarely if ever see a good looking guy with an unattractive woman unless she's a woman he has children with that became unattractive.
The sugar Mama thing is extremely rare with a good looking guy. In that scenario, it's usually an average looking guy with a fat chick that pays the bills.

You will see attractive women with unattractive men all the time, but yes, it's usually for stability/wealth. Those are rarely happy relationships though. Sometimes those relationships are just simply a relationship with a large age Gap. Like like a 40year-old guy got with a 25 year old girl, but it's 10 years down the road, in the 35-year-old girl is still attractive, but the dude is old. Those relationships are often sad if the younger woman keeps her looks, because a lot of guys start to really get old at 50, and attractive women don't want to f*** an old man unless he's got money.

They did a study on this a while ago and found that most people marry someone within their same sphere of attractiveness. The idea that a bunch of average looking rich dudes were marrying supermodels wasn't that accurate, most average looking rich dudes married average chicks. And most really attractive women married really attractive men.

And that makes sense if we step back and think about it. An attractive woman doesn't have to settle for an average rich guy when she can land an attractive rich guy just as easily, lol. It's not like her competition changes, the attractive rich guy is pulling from the same pool of women as everyone else.

 

[panamaican]

Well it is more than twice what it was before, accounting for 3% per year inflation. And wages have not kept up with inflation. So it's a double whammy. These two things combined are making it very difficult for many to afford a house. That's the point I'm making.

Okay. My point wasn't that it's easy to buy a house. Would you agree that it's easier to afford your mother's house than a house 2.5x bigger?

 

[Bojka]

Okay. My point wasn't that it's easy to buy a house. Would you agree that it's easier to afford your mother's house than a house 2.5x bigger?

Read your first post that I responded to. You said: "I'm not sure that the financial capability for marriage and children has shrunk. More that the perception of what is expected has shifted. Whereas before people might have been fine with a 1500 sq.ft house sending 2-4 kids to public school, now people need the 2500 sq.ft. house and the kids have to go to private school."

My argument is that it isn't just peoples' expectations that are at fault. It is simply much more expensive to pay for the same things as families had 30 years ago. Even a much older version of the same thing.

 

[Super_Nintendo]

You try and fix the incel problem by destigmatizing failure with women instead of shaming it and you reduce competition between men so the system churns out "less losers".

We're approaching almost one third of men under 30 being incels! ONE THIRD! That's huge!