Crime Incels: how online extremism is changing

[Unknown Pleasures]

They did a study on this a while ago and found that most people marry someone within their same sphere of attractiveness. The idea that a bunch of average looking rich dudes were marrying supermodels wasn't that accurate, most average looking rich dudes married average chicks. And most really attractive women married really attractive men.

And that makes sense if we step back and think about it. An attractive woman doesn't have to settle for an average rich guy when she can land an attractive rich guy just as easily, lol. It's not like her competition changes, the attractive rich guy is pulling from the same pool of women as everyone else.

Not to sound gross, but I think a lot of the time there is Freudian influence where people that look like they could be siblings wind up marrying a lot of the time. When I shamelessly watch those dating shows like Bachelor, it's usually my default to guess who is going to pick who lol.

 

[Super_Nintendo]

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[Unknown Pleasures]

Definitely not 100% of them. I'm not talking about the ones that are horribly unattractive either. I am referring to the amount of females that are sub par that believe they deserve better and would rather die alone than settle for a man that is their equal. This leaves a disturbing % of dudes without women.

Honest man. I respect that.

I may have said this before on here, but I heard someone say something that made me go hmmmm. They said that in the American golden age it was apparent the average guy was willing to work as much as necessary to provide for his average wife and kids. Now, with societal shifts and online dating providing women with more power, the average woman is completely unwilling to work as much as necessary to provide for the average man, and have kids. They actually seem more keen on calling the average man a creepy incel and wishing they kill themselves.

I thought it was interesting food for thought.

 

[HOLA]

Not to sound gross, but I think a lot of the time there is Freudian influence where people that look like they could be siblings wind up marrying a lot of the time. When I shamelessly watch those dating shows like Bachelor, it's usually my default to guess who is going to pick who lol.

Many longer-term couples look like they could be siblings, for sure. Solipsists looking to fuck themselves lmao.

Fernando Pessoa had some interesting thoughts on it:

We never love anyone. What we love is the idea we have of someone. It’s our own concept - our own selves - that we love.

This is true in the whole gamut of love. In sexual love we seek our own pleasure via another body. In non-sexual love, we seek out own pleasure via our own idea. The masturbator may be abject, but in point of fact he’s the perfect logical expression of the lover. He’s the only one who doesn’t feign and doesn’t fool himself.

The relations between one soul and another, expressed through such uncertain and variable things as shared words and proffered gestures, are deceptively complex. The very act of meeting each other is a non-meeting. Two people say ‘I love you’ or mutually think it and feel it, and each has in mind a different idea, a different life, perhaps even a different colour or fragrance, in the abstract sum of impressions that constitute the soul’s activity.

etc.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

Half of single men avoid approaching women for fear of seeming creepy

https://thepostmillennial.com/half-of-single-men-avoid-approaching-women-for-fear-of-seeming-creepy

Men avoid women out of fear of being creepy. 44 percent of men said the fear of being creepy “reduces their likelihood of interacting with women” generally, which jumps to 53 percent of men who reported that they are single.

That's pretty interesting. I think I have more female friends than male friends (yes, I'm one of those people). I find it amazing how often they use the word "creepy" to describe fellas. I think dudes generally use the word "crazy" to describe undesirables of the opposite sex lol, but not nearly as much.

 

[Zazen]

That's pretty interesting. I think I have more female friends than male friends (yes, I'm one of those people). I find it amazing how often they use the word "creepy" to describe fellas. I think dudes generally use the word "crazy" to describe undesirables of the opposite sex lol, but not nearly as much.

They're only creepy if they're ugly. If he is handsome, that kind of behavior is considered cute.

 

[Misanthropist]

........

 

[evansusmc2]

Men are attracted to different women. There are some women that I find very attractive, but they might not be “society’s idea” of beauty.

Well aren't most men like this? Just as long as females aren't society's idea of Jabba.

For instance, personally, I find the typical “Miss universe” type women unattractive sexually. Too tall, big feet, too skinny … but, we are told that this is the pinnacle of beauty and what all men should aspire to …

Well yeah the chicks that are too skinny have become more and more unappealing as time goes by. Height will probably never become unattractive though.

meh, give me a short, cute girl with glasses and a bit of cushion any day of the week! Moreso, if we actually get along with each other and can have an intelligent conversation.

Somewhat of a description of my current gf without the glasses.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Generally practiced where? Do you think incels are moving to Iran or rural Pakistan?

Are you asking me what Muslim states treat their women badly? That’s a pretty healthy list

I wouldn't say Islam is generally practiced as a misogynist religion. There are certainly misogynist Muslims and certain cultures throughout the world where Islam is the dominant religion and are oppressive to women, but generally speaking, most Muslim men treat women and children well. There is obviously a reason Islam is growing and many of the converts are women.

Iran is facing criticism from Muslims and I highly doubt people will stop being Muslim once the regime falls.

An incel converting to Islam isn't going to miraculously help him obtain a submissive wife he can dominate and treat harshly. I find Muslim woman aren't exactly push-overs. Many of the Muslim women I know are very strong willed.

No I don’t think incels are moving to Muslim countries and picking up the religion. That’s a difficult thing to do and one common trait among incels is that they are unmotivated. I do however think they see these countries and think that they are doing the right things.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Are you asking me what Muslim states treat their women badly? That’s a pretty healthy list

Sure but then what's the point? Incels aren't building any actual connections to those countries or even communities of immigrants from those countries like real terrorists do such as the Islamists that flew over to Syria. There's no real incel/Islam connection beyond the fact that Andrew Tate converted to Islam. Gangbagers convert to Islam in prison all the time but we're supposed to be worried about Muslim incels? Come on now.

The whole "incel threat" is mostly a farce, especially in the wake of a crime wave where who knows how many have died. Game pits have probably killed more people than incels have, its the media looking for a story is all. I like The Economist's coverage of certain topics like the war in Ukraine but I knew this one would be a joke.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

They're only creepy if they're ugly. If he is handsome, that kind of behavior is considered cute.

There are degrees to this, but has some truth. What is more obvious is how attractive and powerful people are automatically funnier and more interesting in a lot of people's eyes. I've been to enough corporate meetings where a big shot will tell a stupid joke and get rousing laughter whereas if a low level shmuck said the same thing it would be dead silence.

 

[So Fresh]

You try and fix the incel problem by destigmatizing failure with women instead of shaming it and you reduce competition between men so the system churns out "less losers".

We're approaching almost one third of men under 30 being incels! ONE THIRD! That's huge!

But what are the female numbers? Young people have less sex anyway since generation Z. It’s not only men, it’s also women, and often it’s by choice.

 

[So Fresh]

Reading most of the comments I feel there are a few things that get misunderstood:

First it’s not necessarily about the incel-islam link, that was just an example because Tate conversed to Islam as of late. The video is explaining that you have multiple subcultures and because of the internet they are intertwining. This intertwinement can cause these groups to grow faster and thus cause more damage. So incels are intertwining with alt right, alt right is intertwining with Islam, etc, and they are all coming together using parts of every ideology to fit their own worldview.

then there are some people who basically behave like incels and spread misinformation like “women only want rich men”, “you see women walking with unattractive men just because they are rich”, “men can’t hit on women anymore because metoo and they are creepy”. Etc. These are all incel talking points and this enforces the view they have of women. You shouldn’t look at women for the solution of what to do with incels. You should look at incels.

 

[So Fresh]

Sure but then what's the point? Incels aren't building any actual connections to those countries or even communities of immigrants from those countries like real terrorists do such as the Islamists that flew over to Syria. There's no real incel/Islam connection beyond the fact that Andrew Tate converted to Islam. Gangbagers convert to Islam in prison all the time but we're supposed to be worried about Muslim incels? Come on now.

The whole "incel threat" is mostly a farce, especially in the wake of a crime wave where who knows how many have died. Game pits have probably killed more people than incels have, its the media looking for a story is all. I like The Economist's coverage of certain topics like the war in Ukraine but I knew this one would be a joke.

Well I don’t know if it’s a farce. Incel culture has been linked to multiple mass murders and terrorist attacks. The crime wave you are talking about is strictly American, this covers international problems. And it’s not so much a huge problem now, it’s more a warning for what can happen in the future and how they are trying to battle this evolution of internet “terrorism”.

I think the incel-islam connection is muddying the water a bit and the main take aways are:
- this group is growing because of the internet
- this group is becoming more extreme
- this group is intertwining with other extremist groups
- How are we gonna battle that?

 

[Super_Nintendo]

But what are the female numbers? Young people have less sex anyway since generation Z. It’s not only men, it’s also women, and often it’s by choice.

M and F between 18-30. Means younger women are shifting to partners older than 30 or what I think is happening, women are concentrating around a small subset of men.

These 2 graphics imply it's the latter, with women passing on 95% of men on Tinder and rating 80% of men as below average on Okcupid.

Here's the WaPo article. I can't read it cause it needs a paid sub.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...icans-not-having-sex-has-reached-record-high/

 

[Super_Nintendo]

Reading most of the comments I feel there are a few things that get misunderstood:

First it’s not necessarily about the incel-islam link, that was just an example because Tate conversed to Islam as of late. The video is explaining that you have multiple subcultures and because of the internet they are intertwining. This intertwinement can cause these groups to grow faster and thus cause more damage. So incels are intertwining with alt right, alt right is intertwining with Islam, etc, and they are all coming together using parts of every ideology to fit their own worldview.

then there are some people who basically behave like incels and spread misinformation like “women only want rich men”, “you see women walking with unattractive men just because they are rich”, “men can’t hit on women anymore because metoo and they are creepy”. Etc. These are all incel talking points and this enforces the view they have of women. You shouldn’t look at women for the solution of what to do with incels. You should look at incels.

Some incels definitely have a distorted view of reality, like they think the only reason they can't get a GF is only because of a lack of looks, when the reality is they're really difficult to talk to with poor social skills and struggle to support themselves.

It's not fair to dehumanize them though, "incel talking points" doesn't really address the issue and often times they can be right about some things. I agree, the solution should always be on the man himself to change, you can't and shouldn't change the world.

Also, half of single men avoid approaching women because they're afraid of being labelled creepy. This is not a talking point, it's a reality in the current climate. Metoo isn't to punish criminals anymore, it's been weaponized and used against regular men for doing basic things like talking to women or asking them out. Metoo is something women dangle over the heads of low quality men so they stick to their own lanes and never even approach them.

https://thepostmillennial.com/half-of-single-men-avoid-approaching-women-for-fear-of-seeming-creepy

 

[Nameless King]

Half of single men avoid approaching women for fear of seeming creepy

https://thepostmillennial.com/half-of-single-men-avoid-approaching-women-for-fear-of-seeming-creepy

Men avoid women out of fear of being creepy. 44 percent of men said the fear of being creepy “reduces their likelihood of interacting with women” generally, which jumps to 53 percent of men who reported that they are single.

I do have feeling like that, however how many men these days approaches women anyway. Everything goes down to online dating. Put pictures on, vague description and see what you can fish up. Bear in mind that there is generally more men than women on it.

 

[Nameless King]

What do you look for in a partner?

Someone to be myself with.

This is another thing. There is soooo much acting going on, at least in early stages of the relationship (hence divorces) people putting on an act to attract the person, showing good sides. But when relationship rolling, the guard is dropping slowly showing true colours.

Personally and ideally if I could choose, I would rather have money to pay for a girl to be and have sex exclusively with me. At least I can be ̶a̶ ̶d̶e̶g̶e̶n̶e̶r̶a̶t̶e̶ myself.

 

[tenniswhiz]

There are degrees to this, but has some truth. What is more obvious is how attractive and powerful people are automatically funnier and more interesting in a lot of people's eyes. I've been to enough corporate meetings where a big shot will tell a stupid joke and get rousing laughter whereas if a low level shmuck said the same thing it would be dead silence.

I’ve been to meetings where people have made the mistake of not knowing that some dorky looking little Chinese, Indian, or Jewish guy WAS THE BIGSHOT.

 

[panamaican]

Not to sound gross, but I think a lot of the time there is Freudian influence where people that look like they could be siblings wind up marrying a lot of the time. When I shamelessly watch those dating shows like Bachelor, it's usually my default to guess who is going to pick who lol.

Nah, that's not freudian at all. People are attracted to people who look like them. Not in a complexion way, which is what most people default to, but in a face shape and features way. And attractiveness can often be boiled down to symmetry and average sized features. As in normal sized nose, mouth, eyes, etc. abnormal features -- big nose, small mouth, eyes too close/too far apart reduces attractiveness. We get comfortable with our own features in the mirror and pictures or by looking at our parents and thus find those features more "normal" and features that diverge from our own too much as off in some way. Attraction is an interesting field from what I've read about it.