Crime Incels: how online extremism is changing

[PBAC]

I've been noticing a lot lately that I tend to get along with attractive wealthy women. I usually take people as they are and tend/tended to date around a bit but all I'm noticing every time I lower my standards it seems to go to their heads. When they are attractive and wealthy they are less demanding and have less to prove to anyone so hey are easier for me to talk to as opposed to someone who is trying to pick me apart. I guess it's sort of like being physically well-built but allowing people to walk over you. They start to think they are tougher than they are because you let them away with it. Same shit with girls on dating apps getting more attention. In reality, they're also being raped because the mods control who they match with.

 

[Ichibanner]

What do you look for in a partner?

Someone to be myself with.

This is another thing. There is soooo much acting going on, at least in early stages of the relationship (hence divorces) people putting on an act to attract the person, showing good sides. But when relationship rolling, the guard is dropping slowly showing true colours.

I think your above statement is spot on.

From my own experience I've dealt with this exact scenario. I meet a woman and the dating phase is great. We do things together socially, watch scary movies or action flicks along with romantic comedies or suspense thrillers, head to the race track and cars shows, and attend craft fairs along with going to the beach or simply going for walks. The sex is quite often and good.

Time goes on and she feels comfortable enough to say no to watching movies that I'm interested in. Going out and being social isn't anything she wants to do. I get told that I should go with my like-minded friends to car races or car shows. She feels "rushed" when I participate in her interests so she'd rather go alone or with friends. The same woman that had adventurous sex in public appears to have lost any semblance of sex drive.

One day you wake up and feel like a dog that's been chained up in the back yard and forgotten about. You wonder how the relationship got to that point.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I think your above statement is spot on.

From my own experience I've dealt with this exact scenario. I meet a woman and the dating phase is great. We do things together socially, watch scary movies or action flicks along with romantic comedies or suspense thrillers, head to the race track and cars shows, and attend craft fairs along with going to the beach or simply going for walks. The sex is quite often and good.

Time goes on and she feels comfortable enough to say no to watching movies that I'm interested in. Going out and being social isn't anything she wants to do. I get told that I should go with my like-minded friends to car races or car shows. She feels "rushed" when I participate in her interests so she'd rather go alone or with friends. The same woman that had adventurous sex in public appears to have lost any semblance of sex drive.

One day you wake up and feel like a dog that's been chained up in the back yard and forgotten about. You wonder how the relationship got to that point.

I think tbh the key is not to get too involved in each others interests in the first place. Most couples that I know who I'd say are in healthy relationships have their thing that's theirs that they do without their partner. I've always felt trapped if a partner wants to participate in my hobbies. When I want to go to BJJ I do that because it's my thing, I wouldn't want a partner to come with me, I'd prefer they do their thing that they enjoy and then we can talk about how much fun we had later. Spending too much time together is a bad thing imo.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Anyway people can definitely get girls if they have appropriate standards. I work in welfare and I see people who are overweight alcoholics with barely any teeth and no job who can still get girls. They don't get girls who I'd consider attractive, but they're not attractive themselves so it is what it is.

 

[skold]

It's a cycle with incels.. the more time they spend online listening to Andrew Tate and some other red-pilled garbage, the more detached from society (and reality) they become. Their social skills deteriorate and soon they can't interact with normal people anymore (let alone girls). As a result the only people they are able to interact with are other incels online, reinforcing their delusions.

 

[Satur9]

Just another example of people with unrealistic expectations due to, imho, the internet. No worse for society than the hordes of whores who want the top 5 percentile of men, and who bring nothing to the table. Making babies and becoming single mothers for life, or, just becoming old cranky, depressed cat women.

We are going to be in for some serious societal problems in 20 years. People are delusional

 

[Islam Imamate]

Well I don’t know if it’s a farce. Incel culture has been linked to multiple mass murders and terrorist attacks. The crime wave you are talking about is strictly American, this covers international problems. And it’s not so much a huge problem now, it’s more a warning for what can happen in the future and how they are trying to battle this evolution of internet “terrorism”.

I think the incel-islam connection is muddying the water a bit and the main take aways are:
- this group is growing because of the internet
- this group is becoming more extreme
- this group is intertwining with other extremist groups
- How are we gonna battle that?

What group? Who is the leader of the incels? What is their command structure like? These are rhetorical questions because its not a group at all, just a large internet mass of people who are together alone. Sure there have been attacks here and there but in the grand scheme of things they are rare and not a real security issue. Some reports suggest up to a third of men under 30 are incels and yet we've seen maybe a handful of attacks over the last decade, they're by and large a harmless herd.

The incel issue is serious but not as a security issue but rather as a social issue. Clearly something is wrong here and its not just with incels and about sex. Young people also have fewer friends with a significant portion reporting having no friends at all. Even women have reported lower and lower levels of satisfaction over the decades. And of course there's the plummeting birth rate we see in the West. The incel thing is obviously a symptom of a wider social malaise that were experiencing but people on the left are more interested in associating incels with the right and making them out to be some boogeyman for which we need to expand the ever expanding security apparatus to deal with.

 

[7even]

I think every guy can get a girl. Personally I got issues with getting a gf. But its purely down to my preferences. I want good looking girl, top shelf, end of story. Nothing average. But then how can I expect to get top shelf when I am myself average. This is where escorts come into play which I do use. So I totally dont understand that movement at all. You want a gf? Have a realistic expectations of what can you get.

Islam seems to be the way to go if you hate women. I'm seeing that too lately, Islam is looked upon as a masculine religion whereas Christianity has gone soft by accepting gays and stuff. I bet he loves the countries that restrict women's rights. It's really sad that this is the man that is influencing millions of young boys.

I really don't know what you do with these people. They have a huge victim mentality and instead of self-improvement they choose to blame all women for not sleeping with them. They feel entitled to sex and it just doesn't work that way. I think for one, these people need to stop living terminally online lives. They need to go out there into the real world and start talking to people. I think traveling really helped me break out of my shell. It forces you into uncomfortable situations at times, especially if you go alone as I did while I was very young. It gives you some confidence that you can do things on your own. I don't know the solution, but I do know that sitting in front of a computer all day, every day and complaining about women is not one of them.

The problem I have with the Incel threads is people always shift the blame to men. Do you agree that standards from women are unrealistically high? It’s easy for women to get sex from men that are out of their league, since men would fuck anything. This turns them into an alpha widow. It’s not just looks either. Financial status and social status also play a part when it comes to a man’s sexual market value.

 

[My Spot]

What group? Who is the leader of the incels? What is their command structure like? These are rhetorical questions because its not a group at all, just a large internet mass of people who are together alone. Sure there have been attacks here and there but in the grand scheme of things they are rare and not a real security issue. Some reports suggest up to a third of men under 30 are incels and yet we've seen maybe a handful of attacks over the last decade, they're by and large a harmless herd.

The incel issue is serious but not as a security issue but rather as a social issue. Clearly something is wrong here and its not just with incels and about sex. Young people also have fewer friends, with a significant portion reporting having no friends at all. Even women have reported lower and lower levels of satisfaction over the decades. And of course there's the plummeting birth rate we see in the West. The incel thing is obviously a symptom of a wider social malaise that were experiencing but people on the left are more interested in associating incels with the right and making them out to be some boogeyman for which we need to expand the ever expanding security apparatus to deal with.

I wish he'd at least be honest and say who he's really talking about (evil white males).

 

[cincymma79]

Just another example of people with unrealistic expectations due to, imho, the internet. No worse for society than the hordes of whores who want the top 5 percentile of men, and who bring nothing to the table. Making babies and becoming single mothers for life, or, just becoming old cranky, depressed cat women.

We are going to be in for some serious societal problems in 20 years. People are delusional

I work in a predominantly female field and hearing them talk about how to get a guy is hilarious. They just tell each other to lie. I steer into that storm now. Girl from yesterday is very overweight. They all are, of course. She said that guys don’t usually pay for her food on dates, well no shit. A: how much does that cost. B: you’re fat they’re not going to put in much effort. Then they talked about how a guy should pay. My time to shine. Oh no you don’t. You wanted to be equal. That includes when the bill comes and when the bullets fly. You pay your half. Especially with inflation. These young guys can’t afford to pay for you and themselves

 

[panamaican]

Some incels definitely have a distorted view of reality, like they think the only reason they can't get a GF is only because of a lack of looks, when the reality is they're really difficult to talk to with poor social skills and struggle to support themselves.

It's not fair to dehumanize them though, "incel talking points" doesn't really address the issue and often times they can be right about some things. I agree, the solution should always be on the man himself to change, you can't and shouldn't change the world.

Also, half of single men avoid approaching women because they're afraid of being labelled creepy. This is not a talking point, it's a reality in the current climate. Metoo isn't to punish criminals anymore, it's been weaponized and used against regular men for doing basic things like talking to women or asking them out. Metoo is something women dangle over the heads of low quality men so they stick to their own lanes and never even approach them.

https://thepostmillennial.com/half-of-single-men-avoid-approaching-women-for-fear-of-seeming-creepy

They're afraid of being labelled creepy because they don't know how to approach women without being, well, creepy.

They don't understand how the social dynamics change how to approach women. That approaching a woman in the bookstore is different from approaching her at a house party. They don't know how to read the social cues that say a woman is open to being approached. Or how to determine if she's open to being approached by that specific guy, prior to making their approach. They don't know how to start casual conversation or how to determine within a sentence or two if they should break off the conversation and move on.

That's not "metoo", that's a generation of guys who've learned how to approach women through the sterile environment of the internet (emails, DMs, and texts) and haven't been taught that real life is very, very different.

 

[Satur9]

I work in a predominantly female field and hearing them talk about how to get a guy is hilarious. They just tell each other to lie. I steer into that storm now. Girl from yesterday is very overweight. They all are, of course. She said that guys don’t usually pay for her food on dates, well no shit. A: how much does that cost. B: you’re fat they’re not going to put in much effort. Then they talked about how a guy should pay. My time to shine. Oh no you don’t. You wanted to be equal. That includes when the bill comes and when the bullets fly. You pay your half. Especially with inflation. These young guys can’t afford to pay for you and themselves

Yea, they are bound to be old and lonely. Not all, but a lot. We are seriously heading toward a rude awakening when it comes to dating. I say this as someone who never had a problem, but, I see it all the time. We are being sold BS, and sell it to each other. Then complain when we are lonely. It’s sad to see. Many want the perks that come from traditional standards of dating, but do not want to put in the effort it traditionally took for those results.

 

[tramendous]

Islam seems to be the way to go if you hate women. I'm seeing that too lately, Islam is looked upon as a masculine religion whereas Christianity has gone soft by accepting gays and stuff. I bet he loves the countries that restrict women's rights. It's really sad that this is the man that is influencing millions of young boys.

I really don't know what you do with these people. They have a huge victim mentality and instead of self-improvement they choose to blame all women for not sleeping with them. They feel entitled to sex and it just doesn't work that way. I think for one, these people need to stop living terminally online lives. They need to go out there into the real world and start talking to people. I think traveling really helped me break out of my shell. It forces you into uncomfortable situations at times, especially if you go alone as I did while I was very young. It gives you some confidence that you can do things on your own. I don't know the solution, but I do know that sitting in front of a computer all day, every day and complaining about women is not one of them.

Christianity hasnt just "gone soft", it stopped being Christian. Islam gives people the faith the assurances and a consistent source of morality from God that appeals to what they know and feel deep inside them. Nothing to do with "hating women" since women convert too. Its also more coherent than Christianity. No disrespect to Christians, just my view on it.

 

[Zazen]

Christianity hasnt just "gone soft", it stopped being Christian. Islam gives people the faith the assurances and a consistent source of morality from God that appeals to what they know and feel deep inside them. Nothing to do with "hating women" since women convert too. Its also more coherent than Christianity. No disrespect to Christians, just my view on it.

Curious what you mean by “stopped being Christian.”

 

[uppercutbus]

I’ve noticed a lot of lefties with an unhealthy obsession with “incels”. Not sure why.

And they always keep associating it with their political enemies (see skold), although I think that's the point.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

M and F between 18-30. Means younger women are shifting to partners older than 30 or what I think is happening, women are concentrating around a small subset of men.

These 2 graphics imply it's the latter, with women passing on 95% of men on Tinder and rating 80% of men as below average on Okcupid.

Here's the WaPo article. I can't read it cause it needs a paid sub.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...icans-not-having-sex-has-reached-record-high/

The OK cupid thing is insane to me. Only 7% of men are above average.... I guess 13% maybe if you want to split the 12% middle bucket in half.

And yet there's like this big movement of how women being fat and overweight is no big deal, they are as beautiful and attractive as anyone else kind of thing. When there's no male equivalent. That probably leaks into how least attractive women put themselves in a higher attraction bucket and score men lower.

I know I throw out the words social engineering a lot, but it seems too obvious to me to be anything else.

 

[cincymma79]

Yea, they are bound to be old and lonely. Not all, but a lot. We are seriously heading toward a rude awakening when it comes to dating. I say this as someone who never had a problem, but, I see it all the time. We are being sold BS, and sell it to each other. Then complain when we are lonely. It’s sad to see. Many want the perks that come from traditional standards of dating, but do not want to put in the effort it traditionally took for those results.

It should be basic math. If you’re average that’s ok. Most people are average. Every condition you add means substantially fewer options. Let’s ignore the actual numbers here and just go hypothetical. Imagine you only want a redhead and hair color is evenly distributed. That’s blonde redhead brunette. 1/3. You eliminated 2/3 of the dating pool for yourself. Most women are fives (though todays five is like a three twenty years ago). They want a guy who’s six foot, so already down to about 16% of men. Then they ad other conditions. You’re getting down to 1 or 2% of men and those guys can have anybody they want, they’re not taking a five or even a six.

 

[cincymma79]

The OK cupid thing is insane to me. Only 7% of men are above average.... I guess 13% maybe if you want to split the 12% middle bucket in half.

And yet there's like this big movement of how women being fat and overweight is no big deal, they are as beautiful and attractive as anyone else kind of thing. When there's no male equivalent. That probably leaks into how least attractive women put themselves in a higher attraction bucket and score men lower.

I know I throw out the words social engineering a lot, but it seems too obvious to me to be anything else.

The fat nasty ones will dye their hair pink and get their lips done. Anything other than getting in a goddamned treadmill and eating less.

 

[Ichibanner]

I think tbh the key is not to get too involved in each others interests in the first place. Most couples that I know who I'd say are in healthy relationships have their thing that's theirs that they do without their partner. I've always felt trapped if a partner wants to participate in my hobbies. When I want to go to BJJ I do that because it's my thing, I wouldn't want a partner to come with me, I'd prefer they do their thing that they enjoy and then we can talk about how much fun we had later. Spending too much time together is a bad thing imo.

I see your point. But, some of us want partners to share a lot of activities with, especially if the relationship is long term. My experience was having a partner that eventually wanted to sit around and do things that aren't "couples" activities. Jewelry making, sewing, etc. She became boring and not involved in the majority of my life outside of eating together, watching some tv together, or falling asleep in the same bed.

I'm okay with having guy time, in fact, I feel like I need that break and enjoy hanging out with my "boys". Having a woman who's opting out of the things that used to be shared activities was the problem. You date and things are going well then one day you wake up to find that your relationship is closer to being that of a roommate.

 

[cincymma79]

I see your point. But, some of us want partners to share a lot of activities with, especially if the relationship is long term. My experience was having a partner that eventually wanted to sit around and do things that aren't "couples" activities. Jewelry making, sewing, etc. She became boring and not involved in the majority of my life outside of eating together, watching some tv together, or falling asleep in the same bed.

I'm okay with having guy time, in fact, I feel like I need that break and enjoy hanging out with my "boys". Having a woman who's opting out of the things that used to be shared activities was the problem. You date and things are going well then one day you wake up to find that your relationship is closer to being that of a roommate.

That and the crushing tmj they all develop