In ONE FC successfully defending a takedown counts for scoring should the UFC follow suit?

The problem I have is that you can have 10 seconds of striking exchanges, then the wall and stall the rest of the 5 minute round with nothing but takedown attempts, but supposedly if a few strikes connect those are supposed to be the primary judging activity. The round is basically 1 fighter stopping takedowns from another, defensive grappling should score points, but also takedowns and grappling should score something especially if it's 90% of the round.

Moments like Jones taking down DC just kind of blow people's minds, even if he didn't hold him down and hit him, it's pretty monumental and its crazy it doesn't technically score anything until he baby taps DC from GNP. Judging criteria should evolve over time because it's still a young sport and attempt to keep updating it until we get fighters that go for activity. Boxing fucked up with jabs dominating their criteria and mma has a chance to favor action. Reward excitement and effort and discourage stalling.
 
HHJ said:
GO watch kickboxing
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It's not that we dont want to see grappling but 15 mins of failed grappling attempts winning you a fight ala Bautista vs aldo is abhorrent to watch for a laymen. It's also hard for that laymen to understand why the guy who has been spamming takedowns that all get stuffed, should win a fight.

If a stuffed takedown doesn't earn you points, thats fine. but why should failing to take someone down a whole fight have you the winner? throwing punches that don't land doesn't win you a fight. Why should this?

I'm not really for or against either side but understand the argument both sides make. Maybe a redefinition of effective grappling needs to be explored.
 
RockyLockridge said:
If a stuffed takedown doesn't earn you points, thats fine. but why should failing to take someone down a whole fight have you the winner? throwing punches that don't land doesn't win you a fight. Why should this?
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Because the grappling is still accomplishing something. It's still controlling the other person and dictating how the fight is going. If you force someone to be on the defensive the whole time, that is something. No one wants to see a fight like Merab vs Aldo, but Aldo couldn't do nothing about it. If the ref wanna break it up fine, but no way you just give the fight to Aldo for nothing.

Fighters need to learn how not to end up dominated for an entire fight in this way.
 
HHJ said:
Because the grappling is still accomplishing something. It's still controlling the other person and dictating how the fight is going.
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Throwing punches that don't land is still accomplishing something. it's controlling the space between the opponent and missed punches, forcing them to dodge the punches thus dictating how the fight is going. If you force someone to dodge punches and move on the defensive the whole time, that is something. ect ect
 
Poatan fluffers really have gone full retard after this result. This is called the bargaining stage of grief.

Now they want to ruin MMA (the kind people actually watch) further and bring in the dumbest change possible to the unified rules just so their favorite kickboxer can be protected.
 
Söze Aldo said:
That would be ideal but there does seem to be a scoring or judging bias that always goes to the guy holding the other guy against the cage vs the guy succesfuly preventing that takedown.

The Aldo vs Merab fight was a huge example of that.
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I feel like an even round should be an even round ….not pressure to score a winner ….if that means more draws ….it is what it is ……
 
r-harper-1 said:
I feel like an even round should be an even round ….not pressure to score a winner ….if that means more draws ….it is what it is ……
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Judges hate scoring rounds 10-10 even when deserved. If a round is mostly one guy pushing a guy against the cage because the other guy is negating his ability to fully take him down, they've essentially neutralized each other, and should be scored as a draw.
 
Dr Fong said:
Poatan fluffers really have gone full retard after this result. This is called the bargaining stage of grief.

Now they want to ruin MMA (the kind people actually watch) further and bring in the dumbest change possible to the unified rules just so their favorite kickboxer can be protected.
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Im probably the biggest Poatan fan in here and Magomed was clearly the better fighter that night, but that was because of his punching. Not grappling
 
Luthien said:
Have you seen the atrocious card happening this weekend ?!
200w.gif
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Yeah you can't tell the UFC Apex cards apart anymore, they all blend into one, thats how unremarkable they are. Fights for fights sake. Its a shame

I was watching UFC 17 last tuesday, just had a craving to watch it, damn it was so good. You will never seen someone like Andre The Chief Roberts in MMA anymore, the only American fighter to ever fight in UFC, so awesome to see that furious power. God bless the chief, only US fighter ever to compete. I was watching his fight against Harry Moskowitz on UFC 17 card, he beat the crap out of Harry and then screamed at him afterwards to "Get up" , beautiful moment.

Its a beautiful bygone era and different world isn't it.
 
It should have always been this:

A takedown or control counts for nothing. Zero.

Getting a takedown and having control puts you in a better position to damage your opponent.

If you get a takedown and do nothing with it, then it was worth nothing, and should not be scored or considered.
 
HI SCOTT NEWMAN said:
Yeah you can't tell the UFC Apex cards apart anymore, they all blend into one, thats how unremarkable they are. Fights for fights sake. Its a shame

I was watching UFC 17 last tuesday, just had a craving to watch it, damn it was so good. You will never seen someone like Andre The Chief Roberts in MMA anymore, the only American fighter to ever fight in UFC, so awesome to see that furious power. God bless the chief, only US fighter ever to compete. I was watching his fight against Harry Moskowitz on UFC 17 card, he beat the crap out of Harry and then screamed at him afterwards to "Get up" , beautiful moment.

Its a beautiful bygone era and different world isn't it.
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lol Did you write Roberts' Wiki page? It's almost empty. All it has is his record!
 
I think damage should be the only thing that matters.

Which would mean a takedown only gives you points if it does damage.

So if they gently roll to the mat, no points, but if they're slammed or thrown or tripped to where it does damage then you get points.

Holding someone down or against the fence should not give you points. That's just putting you in position to cause damage, but you still have to actually cause the damage.
 
per teh tread title, "Absolutely NOT!!!."

That's a recipe for stalling to a win on the same level as "Lay & Pray."

Can you imagine a strategy where all you have to do is run & avoid TD's to win.

{<huh}
 
Myrddin Wild said:
per teh tread title, "Absolutely NOT!!!."

That's a recipe for stalling to a win on the same level as "Lay & Pray."

Can you imagine a strategy where all you have to do is run & avoid TD's to win.

{<huh}
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Whether you agree with it or not, in practice ONE scores it this way to actually increase the action in fights, by creating repercussions for attempting takedowns that don't go anywhere.
 
Söze Aldo said:
Whether you agree with it or not, in practice ONE scores it this way to actually increase the action in fights, by creating repercussions for attempting takedowns that don't go anywhere.
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There are also other key differences in the scoring that might attribute to your perceived "increase in action"... though I would argue that your pov here is not universally accepted as fact. The more "holistic" scoring method, for example... (as apposed to the 10 point must system) is one such difference that ensures someone can't just win 2 roundz & then coast during the 3rd round, it also doesn't reward "close rounds" & so you really have to make an impact as a whole in order to win.

I can see how your pov here would slow people down from spamming for TD's just for the sake of it... & also incentivize a standup fighter to engage in the action more knowing he will be given a very small credit for stuffing a TD... but I do agree wit teh unified roolz, that there's something fundamentally wrong with rewarding for defense. (which I expressed in my post that you quoted.)

Those defenses are scored very far back on the hierarchy of ONE FC's scoring criteria: Highest scoring nod goes in this order: near knockouts or submissions first, then damage, striking combinations and ring generalship, earned takedowns or takedown defense, and finally aggression. It's only if other factors are close that TDD even comes into play.

It's not nothing, but I'm not sure how much that really effects things. It is however, a much more used criteria than the Unified rools which require an "indistinguishable round of striking/grappling" before things like area control etc... are even calculated at all.

Conversely, ONE FC actually considers "area control" (ie... ring generalship) as a more important scoring criteria than a fooking TD... & that TDD is just as highly regarded as a TD itself. This seems very flawed to me, but if your perceived "higher action" is indeed true, it could be due to the fact that they score higher for the fighters to stay in the pocket, & so it's hard to pinpoint whether TDD scoring is in fact what gives it your perceived higher action.

I'd say I'm enjoying the discussion, but that I'm very skeptical of your pov about the impact of that particular thing .
 
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