If Max beats Ilia, does GOAT FW rankings change?

[Mr. Shickadance]

There is an obvious way to know if the fighters are better now. One extremely obvious way to tell is if the fighters now are dispatching of the fighters then. Tale as old as time

Not really because they aren’t fighting them in their prime.

 

[RonDante]

Undeniable proof.

This is why I have Berbick > Ali on my GOAT boxing list.

Already think substance said what needed to be said though in a logical way.

I also think a lot of people HERE (sherdog weirdos) didn't actively even watch WEC or MMA before TUF, Brock, ZUFFA, Connor -- whatever "popular" growth in the sport happened, so the revisionist reviews on shit is completely skewed by recency bias.

Ali was 39, aldo was 29, and I wasn’t just talking about aldo I meant all those fighters

Also boxing has been around for hundreds of years, while mma hasn’t. It’s only begun to get into the mainstream

Thanks for considering what I said in good faith

And no, the majority of sherdoggers are middle aged men who think fedor is the goat

 

[RonDante]

Not really because they aren’t fighting them in their prime.

Is their prime over just when they start losing to the next generation?

 

[Mike]

How would Aldo be #1 by your logic. I assume you would put Volk over Max still because of Volks wins over him - Max has the better resume Max beat Aldo much worse than Volk ever beat Max resume isn't much less than Aldo if it even really is .

Aldo has the longest reign and most defenses. I don't go by the Highlander logic some use here where whoever won last absorbed all the losers accomplishments upon victory. Yes he lost to Volk and Max but had more defenses and a longer reign than either.

Weidman isn't above Silva at mw either.

 

[RonDante]

Aldo has the longest reign and most defenses. I don't go by the Highlander logic some use here where whoever won last absorbed all the losers accomplishments upon victory. Yes he lost to Volk and Max but had more defenses and a longer reign than either.

Weidman isn't above Silva at mw either.

More defenses against weaker competition

 

[Mike]

More defenses against weaker competition

Sure if we go by this new breed logic that every generation is better just because it's newer. I don't. For example hw and ww have been regressing for years.

Are Hominick and Gamburyan great defenses? No, but Edgar and Mendes x2 each sure are. You have to look at entire resumes not just cherry pick the best or worst wins

 

[RonDante]

Sure if we go by this new breed logic that every generation is better just because it's newer. I don't. For example hw and ww have been regressing for years.

Are Hominick and Gamburyan great defenses? No, but Edgar and Mendes x2 each sure are. You have to look at entire resumes not just cherry pick the best or worst wins

Welterweight is definitely better, not by leaps and bounds but it is, light heavyweight and heavyweight is probably the same

And yes us volk people are looking at the whole resume, which includes losses aswell, not that losses is the only reason volk is ahead of aldo, just that it’s one of the reasons

 

[Mike]

Welterweight is definitely better, not by leaps and bounds but it is, light heavyweight and heavyweight is probably the same

And yes us volk people are looking at the whole resume, which includes losses aswell, not that losses is the only reason volk is ahead of aldo, just that it’s one of the reasons

WW is definitely not better lmao. Usman had 2 defenses each against Mas and Colby. I assume you're counting all of Aldo's late career losses against him. If that's the case, then Volk is most likely going to go on a slide and start losing more often now too.

Hell he just lost 3 of his last 4 getting knocked out in 2 of them.

 

[RonDante]

WW is definitely not better lmao. Usman had 2 defenses each against Mas and Colby. I assume you're counting all of Aldo's late career losses against him. If that's the case, then Volk is most likely going to go on a slide and start losing more often now too.

Hell he just lost 3 of his last 4 getting knocked out in 2 of them.

Usman had bad defences so the division as a whole is worse?
Gilbert, Belal, Luque, Shavkat, JDM, Brady, wonderboy a few years ago, Garry, even Neal, these guys would almost definitely be ranked top 10 a decade ago

Aldos losses at featherweight are bad becuase he immediately went on a title run at bantamweight arguably getting 4 top 10 wins

Volks losses to islam aren’t a factor becuase they were at lightweight, and if he does go on a skid and has no success from here on, it can be excused more becuase if someone as good as volk was isn’t winning anymore, then you know he’s done

 

[Mike]

Usman had bad defences so the division as a whole is worse?
Gilbert, Belal, Luque, Shavkat, JDM, Brady, wonderboy a few years ago, Garry, even Nyeal, these guys would almost definitely be ranked top 10 a decade ago

Aldos losses at featherweight are bad becuase he immediately went on a title run at bantamweight arguably getting 4 top 10 wins

Volks losses to islam aren’t a factor becuase they were at lightweight, and if he does go on a skid and has no success from here on, it can be excused more becuase if someone as good as volk was isn’t winning anymore, then you know he’s done

The top of the division including who is ranked and fighting for titles is absolutely reflective of the depth. Masvidal alone getting two shots without having to skip a strong contender in the process is ridiculous. Aldo's losses are bad because he wasn't completely shot when he started losing, rather he declined slowly? I'm sorry that doesn't make any sense, saying a long reigning champ LOSES points for contiuing to rack up ranked wins after losing the belt.


Don't say that to Max fans lmao. To many of them that's why he's goat fw despite losing to Volk 3x

 

[RonDante]

The top of the division including who is ranked and fighting for titles is absolutely reflective of the depth. Masvidal alone getting two shots without having to skip a strong contender in the process is ridiculous. Aldo's losses are bad because he wasn't completely shot when he started losing, rather he declined slowly? I'm sorry that doesn't make any sense, saying a long reigning champ LOSES points for contiuing to rack up ranked wins after losing the belt.


Don't say that to Max fans lmao. To many of them that's why he's goat fw despite losing to Volk 3x

Except Colby and masvidal didn’t deserve their rematches, masvidal didn’t even deserve his first fight, so it wasnt the top contender being bad

 

[Mike]

Except Colby and masvidal didn’t deserve their rematches, masvidal didn’t even deserve his first fight, so it wasnt the top contender being bad

No they didn't deserve it. There also wasn't all that much of an uproar beyond people calling it out as bullshit. Because the line wasn't being skipped, there's no strong contenders emerging to the point that a champ could spend an entire reign doing silly bullshit and it was NBD.

 

[GOATtalks]

Not really because they aren’t fighting them in their prime.

Conor beat prime Aldo and Mendes
Max beat prime Aldo x2, Lamas, Cub
Volk beat prime Aldo and Mendes
Ortega beat prime Frankie and Cub

 

[RonDante]

No they didn't deserve it. There also wasn't all that much of an uproar beyond people calling it out as bullshit. Because the line wasn't being skipped, there's no strong contenders emerging to the point that a champ could spend an entire reign doing silly bullshit and it was NBD.

Do you think the current top 10, not the top 10 of over 4 years ago when usman and colby fought, is better or worse than the top 10 of a decade ago?

 

[Megatronlee]

Max is still goat

 

[GOATtalks]

Except Colby and masvidal didn’t deserve their rematches, masvidal didn’t even deserve his first fight, so it wasnt the top contender being bad

Masvidal definitely deserved his first title fight. He finished 3 top10 opponents consecutively- Till, Askren and Nate

 

[Mike]

Do you think the current top 10, not the top 10 of over 4 years ago when usman and colby fought, is better or worse than the top 10 of a decade ago?

Worse. Garry hasn't done very much and is nearly top 5. Burns is still #4. Colby never fights and loses a title shot when he does, he's #5. There's always a guy or two in the top ten that seems out of place but here it's almost half the top ten.

 

[Mike]

Masvidal definitely deserved his first title fight. He finished 3 top10 opponents consecutively- Till, Askren and Nate

Nate and Askren top ten? Yo pass that spliff over here buddeh.

 

[Mr. Shickadance]

Is their prime over just when they start losing to the next generation?

Nope but it just becomes more glaring when they do, aldo was declining before Conor but it was even more so after, but I wouldn’t say aldo was super out of his prime when he lost to Conor , but Conor was too scared to rematch him so we’lol never really know. Also the mendes Conor fought was on short notice.

Conor beat prime Aldo and Mendes
Max beat prime Aldo x2, Lamas, Cub
Volk beat prime Aldo and Mendes
Ortega beat prime Frankie and Cub

aldo was not prime when he fought max or volk, neither was mendes when he fought volk , Frankie wasn’t prime either , cub wasn’t prime when fighting Ortega. I guess you haven’t been watching for awhile so I’ll forgive your ignorance, now I’m done with this conversation youngin’

 

[Mike]

Nope but it just becomes more glaring when they do, aldo was declining before Conor but it was even more so after, but I wouldn’t say aldo was super out of his prime when he lost to Conor , but Conor was too scared to rematch him so we’lol never really know. Also the mendes Conor fought was on short notice.

aldo was not prime when he fought max or volk, neither was mendes when he fought volk , Frankie wasn’t prime either , cub wasn’t prime when fighting Ortega. I guess you haven’t been watching for awhile so I’ll forgive your ignorance, now I’m done with this conversation youngin’

Not subtle enough. Ortega beating prime Frankie is obvious bait and trolling.