If Lomachenko retired today, would he make the Hall of Fame?

[Cariñito]

In ams, As I already had wrote, matters also your opponents.
In ams also is not tragedy ( unlike in pro entertainment business ) to get L on record cos ams aren't designed to sell tickets and ppvs for crowd with casuals.

Usyk had lost vs Korobov, f.e , in ams, Korobov is 2 times World Championship Gold medalist, 1X World Cup winner etc.
Usyk had 1-1 vs Clemente Russo: 2X World Gold medalist, 2X Olympic Silver medalist.
Russo had spanked not only Wilder in ams, some other good boxers too.
Usyk had wins vs Beterbiev in ams and Bet in no case was caveman : he is World Championship gold and silver medalist in adults division.

It is not shame or big minus to have not ideal am record like 100-0 but maybe 80-20 sometimes is better.
If someone fights good opponents, he might learn a lot even if he had lost.
Ams are for you to learn.
It is better to have maybe 10-10 am record vs good lads rather than 10-0 with 10 vs mismatched nobodies.

Ofc, Loma's am career was very good, still I think Papp had better am resume than Loma. W-L doesn't matters in ams, unless you aren't damaged.

Usyk lost to Shawn Porter in the ammies.

 

[aries]

Usyk lost to Shawn Porter in the ammies.

And Canelo lost twice as an amateur to nobodies.

 

[Cariñito]

And Canelo lost twice as an amateur to nobodies.

What a fool. Were talking about how Loma is more accomplished than Usyk in the amateurs.

You yelling "Canelo lost twice as an amateur to nobodies" is a blurted remark of an idiot.

 

[SandisLL]

Usyk lost to Shawn Porter in the ammies.

What cos this?
I do know that for mainstream fans good is to have record like this: 100-0-0 pro, 100-0-0 ams and at least 500-0-0 on da tech streetZ.
Otherwise you might be called a bum and like this.
I don't have 0L record in ams or on da Tech Street and anyway.
In the same ams I had TKOed lad I had been supposed to loss vs him via wide decision and had lost vs lad who supposedly was worse than I.
Is this shame? You are learning, damn.

Most hardest beatup in my life I had get from lad I had W record in this bout, win on cards, KB.
No one in my life had beat me so hard, cos in what shape I was after 2 months, God help. And I never was get down in this bout.

Yeah, and in am KB and boxing I had higher TKO/RSC/KO wins ratio than Usyk or Loma, does this matters?
I had approx 40% wins ratio via stoppages in ams, mainly cos they didn't continued next round.
Yup, and I also had stoppage loss: 1 in boxing, 1 in KB ( low kick alowed ), where I was not down even once: in one case this was inability to do next round, next case cos they throwed towel in the ring.

I never had felt shame cos this.

 

[aries]

What a fool. Were talking about how Loma is more accomplished than Usyk in the amateurs.

You yelling "Canelo lost twice as an amateur to nobodies" is a blurted remark of an idiot.

You've brought up the Shawn Porter loss in plenty of other threads to disparage Usyk, it was as irrelevant then as it is now, forgive me for pointing that out, idiot.

 

[Cariñito]

You've brought up the Shawn Porter loss in plenty of other threads to disparage Usyk, it was as irrelevant then as it is now, forgive me for pointing that out, idiot.

Not in this thread. Were talking ammies, and someone mentioned how Usyk did better in the ammies than Loma and pointed out who he beat. So I mentioned how he lost to Porter.
It's as relevant as it could be.

 

[ssx]

Arturo Gatti and Barry McGuigan are in...Loma gets in easily.

 

[aries]

Not in this thread. Were talking ammies, and someone mentioned how Usyk did better in the ammies than Loma and pointed out who he beat. So I mentioned how he lost to Porter.
It's as relevant as it could be.

It was at the early point of his ammie career, he was 20 and fought at 165lb, he's now 220lb. Pretty much everyone has losses early on especially when they are fighting far from their optimum weight. Getting beaten by Porter who is 6 weight classes below him now might seem like a big deal but it's not when you know that Usyk was a skinny bean pole at that age who had a lot more growing to do. And add to that during the 1 year period around when he fought Porter he lost 6 out of 8 contests, it was not a good time for Usyk. He only lost 15 total fights out of 350 fights in total. Context is everything if you are going to be comparing records.

Personally I think Loma has a better ammie record but bringing up the loss to Shawn Porter doesn't really affect it either way.

 

[Jonny Ninja]

It was at the early point of his ammie career, he was 20 and fought at 165lb, he's now 220lb. Pretty much everyone has losses early on especially when they are fighting far from their optimum weight. Context is everything if you are going to be comparing records.

and they are 3 round fights! Taking losses in the Amis is absolutely inevitable due to the short fights and the fact that the best fighters actually fuckin fight each other. Usually multiple times
2

 

[aries]

and they are 3 round fights! Taking losses in the Amis is absolutely inevitable due to the short fights and the fact that the best fighters actually fuckin fight each other. Usually multiple times
2

Yeah great points. It makes it even more astounding that Lomachenko only ever lost once in nearly 400 fights.

 

[SandisLL]

Taking losses in the Amis is absolutely inevitable due to the short fights and the fact that the best fighters actually fuckin fight each other.

This. In ams the best doesn't have choice unlike in pros: tournament format and you fight with boxers in row or go home.
This also ir reason why L in ams sometimes is greater achievement than win in ams.

Usyk had euro bronze medal etc and no one ever had claimed that he is unbeatable am.

Usyk had L vs Korobov, who then was am star in his peak: World and Euro champ, Korobov was 300-12 in ams, World Cup winner, 2X World gold medalist, euro gold medalist.
Usyk had L vs Mekhonstsev : Olympic Gold medalist, 1X World Gold, 1X World bronze and 2X Euro Gold medalist.
Usyk was 1-1 vs am star in Russo.
Usyk had beat am star in Beterbiev 2X ( twice ).
Usyk's am record looks that is 335-15.

It is relatively easy to rack even 10-0-0 pro record if fights are done vs mismatched short notice bums.
It isn't to fight vs fresh Bet or Korobov, Russo in normal shape and so on.

 

[SandisLL]

There also is a bit difference between pros and ams.
World pro champs doesn't fight for euro pro title if they currently are reigning as world champs.

In amateurs? Not rarity that ammy world champs are fighting in euro championship.

 

[SandisLL]

Am boxing or KB is different rather than pro how career is developed.
In pros if boxer is considered as valuable or at least is good for tickets selling any manager/ boxer's promoter will do all the best get him fights where he might get this 10-0 and better record.
Including all the tricks: most common is short notice for mismatched opponents, this works better if opponent is from aboard and does have short notice. A lot of different tools here might be used.

While I don't consider ams superior than pros, in some countries high level ams are getting support to train, some premium $ for medals and cups, etc.
Some ams does have sponsors and some: gov support + sponsors.

In ams career is started in local area: city level tournaments etc.
Then country level tournaments.
National championship.

Next level is international tournaments level, where participants are from 3-5-15 and more countries.
Wins there will gave higher " credit " , " ranking " than to win nationals.

Next level are continental championships. Like Pan American , Euro, Asian.

Olympic qualifiers.
World Cup.
Pinnacle in am boxing is Olympic Games, however in years, where Games aren't done, pinnacle is World Championship. 1 year Games, 3 years World Championship. Cycle repeats.

In ams anyone should climb up this road to get considered as am boxing star. Like from 1st grade in school till PhD level in education.