If Lomachenko retired today, would he make the Hall of Fame?

[ironfist05]

speaking of ammys, I wonder what an Ammy hall of fame would look like. Stevenson, Papp, Savon, Rigondeaux and Loma all make it, but I'm curious to see what other big names get in there. Probably Zou, Kindelan, Saitov and a few others too but curious to hear the rest.

 

[SandisLL]

Is Hungary where you are from?

No. I know a number of people from Hungary, there have been different dealings with them. Some of them now are ex athletes, etc.

 

[SandisLL]

dude had a SHITLOAD of knockouts.

Papp yeah.
There were am boxers with very high KO %: like Papp and notable specimens were also these boxers;


Valeri Popenchenko - Wikipedia



Algirdas Šocikas - Wikipedia

118-10 ( 73KOs )



Vyacheslav Lemeshev - Wikipedia


I mean cos talk now is about KO wins % in ams.

 

[SuwoopBangin]

Isn't he the most accomplished amateur ever?

 

[SandisLL]

Isn't he the most accomplished amateur ever?

No, and definitely not top 3 am ever. In no case.
More than this: fight record matters nothing in ams.
He is in Rigo amateur accomplishments level and worse than Usyk in ams and in CW pros.
With 0 doubts + too cocky unlike Usyk etc boxers.
He is more cocky than bunch with notable boxers and especially if compare with Usyk, Vitali or Wlad and row with eastern and western boxers.

As am maybe top 10? during decades and nothing more.
While Salido bout should not be counted at all: Salido was overweight in weight ins and when he instead attempts to make weight in next attempt started to dehydrate?
Papachenko is ***mb to allow him to fight in this division under such circuimstances.

Lost bout in pros means that you are bum?
Then Ali is multiple times bum, btw should had been 1-2 vs Norton and Frazier, had been wobble and dropped by <190 lbs boxer! in his prime.

 

[Skandal]

Jake Paul will probably cut the line ahead of him

 

[Kowboy On Sherdog]

How many votes does Top Rank have?

Jake Paul will probably cut the line ahead of him

Needs to beat a Diaz bro or both first....

 

[Sanserif]

No, and definitely not top 3 am ever. In no case.
More than this: fight record matters nothing in ams.
He is in Rigo amateur accomplishments level and worse than Usyk in ams and in CW pros.
With 0 doubts + too cocky unlike Usyk etc boxers.
He is more cocky than bunch with notable boxers and especially if compare with Usyk, Vitali or Wlad and row with eastern and western boxers.

As am maybe top 10? during decades and nothing more.
While Salido bout should not be counted at all: Salido was overweight in weight ins and when he instead attempts to make weight in next attempt started to dehydrate?
Papachenko is ***mb to allow him to fight in this division under such circuimstances.

Lost bout in pros means that you are bum?
Then Ali is multiple times bum, btw should had been 1-2 vs Norton and Frazier, had been wobble and dropped by <190 lbs boxer! in his prime.

I am not so sure it was not smart for lomachemko Sr to allow his son to fight salido in circs where salido was so badly overweight. I think that they were gunning to try to make boxing history which appears to be the motivating factor for his whole career.

What is interesting is that after the salido fight and despite the numerous illegal tactcs used, lomachenko accepted the result. I believe that thus indicates the other reason for the fight which was that they wanted to expose lomachenko to the harsh realities of pro boxing early on ao that he could learn to adapt to dirty tactics so thta it would not hinder him in later fights. Thus was borne out in how he fought after that when he became a lot more savvy in how to defend against them.

Where I thought that lomachenko's overconfidence jeopardised him was in deciding not to postpone the fight against Lopez after hurting his shoulder.during training. The rumours I had read had him refusing to defer the fight and insisting to Carry on. Had he deferred the fight and gotten surgery, the lomachenko who had ought commey and nakatani would have likely beaten lopez handily and he would have unified all the belts and become undisputed which was his ambition. Instead his arrogance and hubris caused him to underestimate or even disrespect lopez who had trained for a long time specifically on how to fight him and made it much easier for him to beat him.
Had lomachenko beaten lopez, we would have been spared the whole lopez hype train for the last 2 years.

On his amateur record, why do you say that usyk's record is better than his? Usyk only managed to get one Olympic gold medal despite competing in 2 Olympics while lomachenko got 2 with dominating points scores. You say he is cocky - but while arrogance is not a good character attribute, how does that affect his record though which is an objective thing? Also while rigondeaux also has 2 gold medals and fought an amazing 475 times as an amateur, he did lose 12 times as an amateur vs lomachenko's solitary loss.

 

[SuwoopBangin]

No, and definitely not top 3 am ever. In no case.
More than this: fight record matters nothing in ams.
He is in Rigo amateur accomplishments level and worse than Usyk in ams and in CW pros.
With 0 doubts + too cocky unlike Usyk etc boxers.
He is more cocky than bunch with notable boxers and especially if compare with Usyk, Vitali or Wlad and row with eastern and western boxers.

As am maybe top 10? during decades and nothing more.
While Salido bout should not be counted at all: Salido was overweight in weight ins and when he instead attempts to make weight in next attempt started to dehydrate?
Papachenko is ***mb to allow him to fight in this division under such circuimstances.

Lost bout in pros means that you are bum?
Then Ali is multiple times bum, btw should had been 1-2 vs Norton and Frazier, had been wobble and dropped by <190 lbs boxer! in his prime.

Ok. Actually I see rigo has more gold medals than him and is a two time Olympian as well.
How's he worse than usyk?

 

[SandisLL]

On his amateur record, why do you say that usyk's record is better than his? Usyk only managed to get one Olympic gold medal despite competing in 2 Olympics while lomachenko got 2 with dominating points scores. You say he is cocky - but while arrogance is not a good character attribute, how does that affect his record though which is an objective thing?

Well, I'll explain: amateur record isn't pro boxing business record ( where obsessed with 0 casuals are telling: lost bout= bum , by modern casual fans criteria even Ali, Patterson, Foreman, Frazier had been called as exposed bums in internet comments ).
It doesn't matters, did you had 80-20 or 100-0 am record.
Matters: your opponents and these medals, cups you had get.

I always will value Usyk and GGG higher than Loma also cos one big reason.

Usyk had 9-0 pro record when he get world title fight as.........B side away corner boxer in Poland vs tickets seller in then undefeated Glowacki who was 2-0 in world title fights.
GGG was amateur star: World adults and junior championship Gold medalist, 2X World Cup winner, Olympic Silver medalist.

In Germany he had 18-0 pro record and 15 stoppage wins.
They didn't gave him good, well paid bouts.
Then he cut ties with Universum.
GGG had fought in US when he alredy had 23-0 pro record with 20 stoppage wins.
In short for first really decent paycheck in his life.

Since Kazahstan supports elite ams a lot, not likely he even lived better in Germany than when he was am star in Kazahstan.
GGG also looks that does have some racists bias in US against him, cos he is from Kazahstan.

Loma?
Bob gave him World title fight when he had 1-0-0 pro record.
More than this: in europe beginner pro boxer in rare cases is getting 8 round bout as pro debut fight. Cos 8 rounders not only are hard for debut lad.
Cos 8 rounder also does costs more than 6 rounder and 6 rounder more than 4 rounder.

So Loma get very fast track done by in forums called as " bad " Bob.

I'm sure that if Usyk had been signed with " bad " Bob, he might had get title fight vs Glowacki not in Poland but in US and not as B side lad vs tickets seller.

 

[SandisLL]

Ok. Actually I see rigo has more gold medals than him and is a two time Olympian as well.
How's he worse than usyk?

I never had posted that Rigo am achievements are worse than Loma's.
I had posted that approx the same.

 

[SandisLL]

Likes Usyk or no, he was an absolutely Undisputed champion in CW division because he fought vs tickets sellers, undefeated champions in their real prime shape as..............away corner boxer.
Ofc, he barely had dealt with prime Briedis, he does have long mileage under belt and so on.
Still, his achievements are damn rare case in modern pro boxing.
Usyk is great.

 

[StopDucking]

@SandisLL yes, we get it: Usyk's pro career is better than Loma's. Everybody agrees. How does it make him a more accomplished amateur fighter than Loma though? Please answer that WITHOUT bringing up their professional records. Thanks.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

@SandisLL yes, we get it: Usyk's pro career is better than Loma's. Everybody agrees. How does it make him a more accomplished amateur fighter than Loma though? Please answer that WITHOUT bringing up their professional records. Thanks.

usyk beat better amateurs but loma has only one verifiable loss. loma still beat some great fighters & does have the edge in medals so i’d say he was a better ammy but usyk’s amateur resume is incredible.

 

[StopDucking]

usyk beat better amateurs but loma has only one verifiable loss. loma still beat some great fighters & does have the edge in medals so i’d say he was a better ammy but usyk’s amateur resume is incredible.

How did you get double yellow too, my guy? Ventured into the War Room?

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

How did you get double yellow too, my guy? Ventured into the War Room?

nope. somehow got a 3-month dub for calling pat barry the p-word, which of course is 100% accurate. apparently you can’t tell the truth about sex offenders on this website unless they were murdered by a right-winger at a protest.

 

[bjl12]

nope. somehow got a 3-month dub for calling pat barry the p-word, which of course is 100% accurate. apparently you can’t tell the truth about sex offenders on this website unless they were murdered by a right-winger at a protest.

I was wondering what those yellow cards were.

Glad it isnt that weird emo rock group XD XD

 

[Sanserif]

Well, I'll explain: amateur record isn't pro boxing business record ( where obsessed with 0 casuals are telling: lost bout= bum , by modern casual fans criteria even Ali, Patterson, Foreman, Frazier had been called as exposed bums in internet comments ).
It doesn't matters, did you had 80-20 or 100-0 am record.
Matters: your opponents and these medals, cups you had get.

I always will value Usyk and GGG higher than Loma also cos one big reason.

Usyk had 9-0 pro record when he get world title fight as.........B side away corner boxer in Poland vs tickets seller in then undefeated Glowacki who was 2-0 in world title fights.
GGG was amateur star: World adults and junior championship Gold medalist, 2X World Cup winner, Olympic Silver medalist.

In Germany he had 18-0 pro record and 15 stoppage wins.
They didn't gave him good, well paid bouts.
Then he cut ties with Universum.
GGG had fought in US when he alredy had 23-0 pro record with 20 stoppage wins.
In short for first really decent paycheck in his life.

Since Kazahstan supports elite ams a lot, not likely he even lived better in Germany than when he was am star in Kazahstan.
GGG also looks that does have some racists bias in US against him, cos he is from Kazahstan.

Loma?
Bob gave him World title fight when he had 1-0-0 pro record.
More than this: in europe beginner pro boxer in rare cases is getting 8 round bout as pro debut fight. Cos 8 rounders not only are hard for debut lad.
Cos 8 rounder also does costs more than 6 rounder and 6 rounder more than 4 rounder.

So Loma get very fast track done by in forums called as " bad " Bob.

I'm sure that if Usyk had been signed with " bad " Bob, he might had get title fight vs Glowacki not in Poland but in US and not as B side lad vs tickets seller.

I understand what you are saying, but we r talking about usyk's amateur record vs lomachenko's amateur record, so I don't see what relevance is usyk's beginning as a pro boxer vs lomachenko's beginning as a pro boxer... you are comparing apples with oranges....

Since you agree that where it pertains amateur records, medals are more important than how many bouts and how many wins or losses, then you have to agree that lomachemko has a better amateur record than usyk because lomachemko is one of the very few boxers who have two Olympic gold medals whereas usyk only has one - and there are heaps of such amateur boxers. Both boxers fought two Olympics tournaments but in his second, usyk only managed to get 5th place whereas lomachemko beat everyone he faced in both Olympics and got the gold both times. In fsct lomachemko did so on two different weight divisions. Therefore outside te even smaller group of triple Olympic gold medallists, lomachenko is probably having the best amateur record of all time even if u measure it just from medals won.

In terms of ability, usyk is a truly great boxer and shares the same style as lomachemko but lomachenko is technically the superior boxer pound for pound between them. Which is no surprise since aalthough they have the same coach, lomachenko was also bred and raised from toddler onwards to be a boxer according to that coach's ideas.

 

[SandisLL]

Both boxers fought two Olympics tournaments but in his second, usyk only managed to get 5th place whereas lomachemko beat everyone he faced in both Olympics and got the gold both times.

In ams, As I already had wrote, matters also your opponents.
In ams also is not tragedy ( unlike in pro entertainment business ) to get L on record cos ams aren't designed to sell tickets and ppvs for crowd with casuals.

Usyk had lost vs Korobov, f.e , in ams, Korobov is 2 times World Championship Gold medalist, 1X World Cup winner etc.
Usyk had 1-1 vs Clemente Russo: 2X World Gold medalist, 2X Olympic Silver medalist.
Russo had spanked not only Wilder in ams, some other good boxers too.
Usyk had wins vs Beterbiev in ams and Bet in no case was caveman : he is World Championship gold and silver medalist in adults division.

It is not shame or big minus to have not ideal am record like 100-0 but maybe 80-20 sometimes is better.
If someone fights good opponents, he might learn a lot even if he had lost.
Ams are for you to learn.
It is better to have maybe 10-10 am record vs good lads rather than 10-0 with 10 vs mismatched nobodies.

Ofc, Loma's am career was very good, still I think Papp had better am resume than Loma. W-L doesn't matters in ams, unless you aren't damaged.

 

[Sanserif]

In ams, As I already had wrote, matters also your opponents.
In ams also is not tragedy ( unlike in pro entertainment business ) to get L on record cos ams aren't designed to sell tickets and ppvs for crowd with casuals.

Usyk had lost vs Korobov, f.e , in ams, Korobov is 2 times World Championship Gold medalist, 1X World Cup winner etc.
Usyk had 1-1 vs Clemente Russo: 2X World Gold medalist, 2X Olympic Silver medalist.
Russo had spanked not only Wilder in ams, some other good boxers too.
Usyk had wins vs Beterbiev in ams and Bet in no case was caveman : he is World Championship gold and silver medalist in adults division.

It is not shame or big minus to have not ideal am record like 100-0 but maybe 80-20 sometimes is better.
If someone fights good opponents, he might learn a lot even if he had lost.
Ams are for you to learn.
It is better to have maybe 10-10 am record vs good lads rather than 10-0 with 10 vs mismatched nobodies.

Ofc, Loma's am career was very good, still I think Papp had better am resume than Loma. W-L doesn't matters in ams, unless you aren't damaged.

I was not comparing their win-loss records though...I was comparing their Olympics gold medal record....