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If Aspinall was a back up-fighter for Jones-Stipe, doesn't that prove Jones was willing to face him?
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I only mentioned that Sonnen scenario to show that Jones could decline a fighter on short notice where he's not prepared for him. I said Sonnen = short notice, but the sentence below I mentioned Tom was back up fighter.
The whole point is that Jones would not be forced to fight Tom even if Tom was the official back up fighter and could decline the fight. Just goes back to what TS was thinking he was stuck fighting him.
Would Jones have fought Tom is Stipe pulled out?? We don't know that.
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If you tell the truth on Tom Aspinall, you’re a lowlife. But if you’re a yes-man and tell him everything he wants to hear, surprise surprise - you’re an upstanding citizen. This guy’s delusional; he thinks he’s God. Praise Jesus his ass got humbled!
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The crazy part is Jones vs Stipe was booked way before before Aspinall even won the interim belt. Aspinall was a relative nobody when Jones destroyed Gane and called out Stipe the same night.
Dana and the UFC made it clear they weren't going to scrap Jones vs Stipe just because they handed out an interim due to injury. Yet the fans were in some kind of silly uproar once the Aspinall hype train got going. Jones never cared for Aspinall and he wasn't even relevant until Jones was recovering from a serious injury.
The risk reward just makes no sense for Jones, he destroyed the #1 HW contender in sheer minutes and all the fraudulent fans could say was "GANE SUCKS" or "GANE WASN'T READY", despite the fact Jones was coming off a historic 3-year layoff to fight a #1 contender, not even Dominick Cruz was out that long when he came back to defeat TJ. Jones does historic never before seen feats but the haters just never stop.
Now the truth has been laid bare, that Aspinall isn't nearly as good as people believe. He is worse or on par with Gane, and that's okay. But Jones would rather fight closer to his optimal fighting weight with a real champion. Aspinall has no defenses, never won a real title, like the whole thing is really good marketing.
Dana and the UFC made it clear they weren't going to scrap Jones vs Stipe just because they handed out an interim due to injury. Yet the fans were in some kind of silly uproar once the Aspinall hype train got going. Jones never cared for Aspinall and he wasn't even relevant until Jones was recovering from a serious injury.
The risk reward just makes no sense for Jones, he destroyed the #1 HW contender in sheer minutes and all the fraudulent fans could say was "GANE SUCKS" or "GANE WASN'T READY", despite the fact Jones was coming off a historic 3-year layoff to fight a #1 contender, not even Dominick Cruz was out that long when he came back to defeat TJ. Jones does historic never before seen feats but the haters just never stop.
Now the truth has been laid bare, that Aspinall isn't nearly as good as people believe. He is worse or on par with Gane, and that's okay. But Jones would rather fight closer to his optimal fighting weight with a real champion. Aspinall has no defenses, never won a real title, like the whole thing is really good marketing.
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Jones fighting any backup of Stipe after he won the belt would have made sense.
Jones fighting unknowns like Tom in perpetuity doesn't make sense.
A win over Tom for Jones would have been meaningless
Hell look how Tom is dismissed now, and he hasnt even had the honor of losing to Jones
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Your Jones hatred flows through you so badly you can't even see that Vitor being a completely unrelated random REPLACEMENT fighter is WORSE than being a backup fighter you've known about all along.
You were wrong, move along.
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I'm assuming if they have an official "backup" opponent, then both fighters have agreed already agreed to fight that person, as part of the contact they signed for the fight, as opposed to what happened when Hendo pulled out, and Dana decided to try and throw in a random opponent who had no business fighting for the title, even on such short notice.
THAT is why I'm saying it's a poor comparison.
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The comparison was made to show that regardless of the situation, a fighter, or in this Jones can decline a fight if he doesn't have time to prepare, regardless of a back fighter or short notice fighter. It's more about Jon not taking risks in these situations and how he could have handled it if Stipe pulled out. While contract wise it's a different situation, it shows how Jones could have handled it.
An official back up opponent is named and given a contract. That back up fighter will train, make weight, do media and get paid his show money regardless if he's fighting or not. However, there is nothing contractually between Jones and Aspinal in that scenario and Jones has the fight to decline that back up fighter if he chooses so. A back up fighter contract by no means guarantees the guy will fight. I used the example with Gamort, official back up fighter for Olivera/Makavhev, and when Olivera pulled out they just threw Volk in there.
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This. He would have never fought him. Most of us were saying this at the time.
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No, I don't think so. Having someone as an official backup wasn't a thing back then, for UFC 151. It started because they had to cancel that event when Hendo tried to gut it out and hoped to improve, and didn't tell Dana until the last minute, specifically.
I'm sure if someone is designated as a backup, they receive some compensation for training and being ready, as you noted, and that the principle fighters have to agree, beforehand, to fight them if the original opponent falls through, regardless of when. Otherwise, what's the point of having a "backup" designated? Your example of Gamrot wasn't Makhachev declining, it was Dana deciding he wanted a bigger name. That was the UFC's decision, not the fighters', so, again, I think that's a bad example for the point you are making.
Do you have anything specific that shows or discusses that a fighter can decline to fight an officially designated backup?
Google AI backs up my contention that they are contractually obligated to fight the backups, but AIs are notoriously unreliable where there are gaps in information, where they will make a definitive wrong statement and gaslight when challeged, so I'm not pretending that this tidbit is anything resembling definitive proof that my belief is correct on this.
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Just because Aspinall accepted being the back up option doesn't mean Jones would have accepted the fight if Stipe had pulled out. That's what you're missing
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Your missing this means nothing other than ufc is paying Tom to be there in shape.
Jones vs Stipe had a backup in pavlovich and neither guy fought him.
Islam vs Charles 2 had a backup in Gamrot and neither guy fought him.
Jones could do whatever the fuck he wanted if stipe backed out, he has no obligation to fight tom backup or no. Thats what your missing. Jones turned down replacement fighter Chael. He could easily say "i heard stipe will be ready in a month or two so im going to wait for him since he waited for me."
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Dana/ufc got a Abu Dhabi sugar daddy to pay for things since the Francis era ended.
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Olivera/Makachev and Gamrot is a very good example. The whole point of Makachev/Olivera and Gamrot was that a back up fighter even though training and contracted, may not get the fight. I pointed out several times in this thread that the promotion can also exclude the back up fighter, in which they did there and decided on a different opponent. So its not just about a fighter declining. I also provided the example from the year prior with Jones/Stipe and Pavlovich being the official back up fighter. And when Jones got injured, the UFC just opted to make an interim fight and move Jones/Stipe to another date. They didnt even offer Stipe the Pavlovich fight, even though he was the back up fighter.
If you wanna use AI, then look up chat GPT or google AI and it will tell you they can decline the fight. But I don't use that as I know that fighters can decline to fight a back up fighter. Every fight has an individual contract, and even if there is a fighter that has a contract for being a back up, they can be declined. And I know this from first had conversations with fighters and managers in the sport.
If you wanna use google.....
A new, separate bout agreement is typically signed for the specific fight, but a full, overarching UFC contract is generally already in place for the backup fighter.
Here is how the process works:
- Existing Contract: Most UFC fighters are signed to multi-fight, exclusive contracts with Zuffa, LLC (the UFC's parent company). This contract governs their overall relationship with the promotion, including exclusivity clauses and the terms for how many fights they will take and under what general rules.
- Backup Role: When a fighter agrees to be a backup, they are essentially accepting the terms to be ready to compete on short notice if a primary fighter pulls out. They usually receive some compensation (often their "show" money) just for making weight and being available, even if they do not end up fighting.
- Bout Agreement: For each specific fight (bout), a separate agreement detailing the date, opponent, and specific purse ("show" and "win" money) is negotiated and signed. If a backup fighter steps in, they will sign the bout agreement for the new fight, often with amended financial terms to reflect the short-notice nature or a potential title fight opportunity (e.g., higher pay, potential pay-per-view points).
So a new contract has to be signed for the new fight. The other fighter can decline it from his side.
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No, not a good example, because we're not talking about whether a fighter gets the fight, we're talking about if one of the original fighters can refuse to fight the official backup. Remember, the original post suggested that by Tom being the official backup, Jones wasn't ducking him. You said, no, Jones could just refuse that matchup.
But we haven't seen an example where there was an official backup, and one of the original combatants refused that fight. We've only seen the UFC opting to do something else, instead.
Nothing you posted from your Google search has anything to do with the contractual obligations that exist or don't exist for the ORIGINAL main event fighters, in regards to fighting the backup.
News reporting at the time, when Jones injured his pec, said that Miocic wasn't given the choice of fighting Aspinall or Pavlovich for the interim title that replaced the original fight with Jones. He said he wanted to, so, again, that was the UFC's decision, and not a case of any of the fighters refusing to fight the backup.
And, no, Google AI said, specifically, that they are contractually obligated to fight the backup. And then, when I went to find my AI inquiry to grab the screenshot of it, it said, no, they're not. When I added "main event" it again said yes, they are. So, you can see my disclaimer about AI unreliability was well founded.
So, again, do you have anything SPECIFIC you can point me to saying that the main combatants can choose to decline?
But we haven't seen an example where there was an official backup, and one of the original combatants refused that fight. We've only seen the UFC opting to do something else, instead.
Nothing you posted from your Google search has anything to do with the contractual obligations that exist or don't exist for the ORIGINAL main event fighters, in regards to fighting the backup.
News reporting at the time, when Jones injured his pec, said that Miocic wasn't given the choice of fighting Aspinall or Pavlovich for the interim title that replaced the original fight with Jones. He said he wanted to, so, again, that was the UFC's decision, and not a case of any of the fighters refusing to fight the backup.
And, no, Google AI said, specifically, that they are contractually obligated to fight the backup. And then, when I went to find my AI inquiry to grab the screenshot of it, it said, no, they're not. When I added "main event" it again said yes, they are. So, you can see my disclaimer about AI unreliability was well founded.
So, again, do you have anything SPECIFIC you can point me to saying that the main combatants can choose to decline?
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This thread is fucking stupid, lol.
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Colby Covington confirmed as backup for UFC 286 main event welterweight title fight https://share.google/R7pR0oGRxa4T4RiqB
Here's another offical backup situation in which both Edwards and Usman stated they had no idea Colby was even hired to be the backup.
So again it's not required of them to have agreed to fight him since they were not even told!
It proves that Tom was ready and willing to fight Jones. Not sure the other side would have been so keen. Jon pulling out at that point would have been a terrible look if Stipe wasn't able to fight. He would have had no option.
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Jones pulled out of fighting Chael even if it resulted in the first cancellation of a modern UFC event. Pulling out of this one wouldn't make him look much more terrible, esp considering his past with drugs, hookers, roids and just being a shitty person in general.
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