Idris Elba rumored to be next Bond

[MikeMcMann]

This was your quote were you made it clear you would not accept any change to Bond. He had to be white and British.

You then changed to 'just white', once it was pointed out to you he has already not been British.

Suddenly you fOund a new tolerance. Lol

The creator of James Bond made him white and british. If that changes it won't be the "real" James Bond even if you like to think it is.

Deal with it.

 

[Willy Womack]

The problem is most creators in Hollywood these days seem to be either hacks or chickenshits. They want to make more diverse stories but they're far too cowardly to create original works with diverse characters (they won't invest in something even slightly risky), or they lack the skill to make these new stories good. This leads to a bunch of subpar reboots with diversity shoved in, both as a means of pushing an agenda and also as a shield against criticism. This crap got old for me a while ago. Make stuff of quality or go fuck yourself for all I care.

 

[elreece]

This was your quote were you made it clear you would not accept any change to Bond. He had to be white and British.

You then changed to 'just white', once it was pointed out to you he has already not been British.

Suddenly you fOund a new tolerance. Lol

Man you so triggered by this.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Man you so triggered by this.

I love the guys showing the most emotion over this and stating how 'they won't accept it' while stamping their feet like children saying others are triggered. Lol. Project much?

 

[elreece]

I love the guys showing the most emotion over this and stating how 'they won't accept it' while stamping their feet like children saying others are triggered. Lol. Project much?

Im just saying you seem very angry about this whole thing

 

[Sansnom]

This was your quote were you made it clear you would not accept any change to Bond. He had to be white and British.

You then changed to 'just white', once it was pointed out to you he has already not been British.

Suddenly you fOund a new tolerance. Lol

How many times did i tell you that the viewers don't know whether the actor portraying James Bond is actually british or not because an accent can be acted on screen. I never said he HAD to be british. I said James Bond is a british white male.

I'm done arguing with you. You are clearly thick headed as fuck.

 

[Mike]

The problem is most creators in Hollywood these days seem to be either hacks or chickenshits. They want to make more diverse stories but they're far too cowardly to create original works with diverse characters (they won't invest in something even slightly risky), or they lack the skill to make these new stories good. This leads to a bunch of subpar reboots with diversity shoved in, both as a means of pushing an agenda and also as a shield against criticism. This crap got old for me a while ago. Make stuff of quality or go fuck yourself for all I care.

Of course they're not going to just discard stagnating ips to make brand new ones. They will reboot to fit the times and the audience. This is common across all forms of media.

Where were all these complaints a generation ago when nearly every ethnic character was recast as a white male?

 

[Willy Womack]

Of course they're not going to just discard stagnating ips to make brand new ones. They will reboot to fit the times and the audience. This is common across all forms of media.

Where were all these complaints a generation ago when nearly every ethnic character was recast as a white male?

I wasn't alive a generation ago so I can't speak on it. I'm all for authenticity, however (for example- Sinbad portrayed by an Arab as opposed to Patrick Wayne). Apocalypto wouldn't have benefited from a diverse cast either.

Anyway, it appears that those who think they're rebooting to fit the times and the audience are actually mistaken and out of touch. Also, perhaps stagnating ips are stagnating for a reason (I doubt that reason is a lack of diversity, btw).

 

[Mike]

I wasn't alive a generation ago so I can't speak on it. I'm all for authenticity, however (for example- Sinbad portrayed by an Arab as opposed to Patrick Wayne). Apocalypto wouldn't have benefited from a diverse cast either.

Anyway, it appears that those who think they're rebooting to fit the times and the audience are actually mistaken and out of touch. Also, perhaps stagnating ips are stagnating for a reason (I doubt that reason is a lack of diversity, btw).

Whether you were around to see it or not, the point was such recasts are as old as media itself. Across movies, books, comics, etc.

How are we out of touch merely for pointing out this is a very standard thing? Throughout this long conversation the people on your side of the debate can only argue based on feelings, while we provide example after example.

The whitewashing also wasn't limited to previous generations. The ghost in the shell movie, gods of egypt, the Dragonball movie, all of the adapted Japanese horror films, Avatar (the one based on the cartoon)

The examples of recent whitewashing in film are numerous.

 

[Willy Womack]

I didn't see a single one of those movies you just listed. I dont care to either. You're not paying attention, bub. I'm no hypocrite. I don't support "whitewashing" in stories and if you'd read my previous post with any degree of comprehension you might've caught that. Your argument is basically "plenty of movies were whitewashed so it's ok if they do the opposite now". It's the same damn thing. Quality is the priority, nothing else. Authenticity and (usually) respect of the source material is an important aspect of quality.

Waaa about it all you want but people speak with their dollars. I wonder how many of those movies you listed made a decent profit?

And I never said you were out of touch for pointing out whitewashing, dumb dumb. Reread the post again for Christ's sake.

 

[HARRISON_3]

This turned into a very long thread.

 

[Mike]

I'd respect it more If people straight up said I don't like change. Instead of making the same repetitive false arguments that are easy to disprove with tons of examples.

You know it still comes down to this. I wish you guys would just admit it. Not wanting a character you like to drastically change isn't racist, doesn't make you a bad person, etc. It's just not a logical argument. You guys back this gut feeling up with objectively false points, and that's why this keeps going on.

1. Changing races of characters is not new, in any form of media. These changes are done to cater to whatever demographic results in the most profits

2. It's not some SJW plot to cater to minorities out of identity politics, see point #1. The only difference is movies are playing to a far more diverse audience than a generation ago. The people making these decisions want to maximize profit, nothing more.

3. You can look at any point in time, and more characters were being white washed than changed to minorities. Far, far more. In fact changing ANY character from white to non white is a relatively new phenomenon.

4. When you refuse to acknowledge the above points out of ignorance, or because the white washing was in your favor, it hurts the legitimacy of your point. Just admit you don't want the character to change because you personally do not like change. Tying it to some anti white agenda makes you look completely ridiculous given the actual history of the film industry.

 

[Mike]

I didn't see a single one of those movies you just listed. I dont care to either. You're not paying attention, bub. I'm no hypocrite. I don't support "whitewashing" in stories and if you'd read my previous post with any degree of comprehension you might've caught that. Your argument is basically "plenty of movies were whitewashed so it's ok if they do the opposite now". It's the same damn thing. Quality is the priority, nothing else. Authenticity and (usually) respect of the source material is an important aspect of quality.

Waaa about it all you want but people speak with their dollars. I wonder how many of those movies you listed made a decent profit?

And I never said you were out of touch for pointing out whitewashing, dumb dumb. Reread the post again for Christ's sake.

In fact you didn't list any actual reasoning why we are supposedly out of touch. You made a blanket statement with no logical argument at all. It's interesting that I make these posts with many actual factual examples to back my point, without any name calling or insults, and get responses like this.

But you guys aren't emotional about the topic, we are.





Also our point isn't two wrongs make a right. Our point is this is literally how all media has always worked. Yet we only see outrage now, when suddenly white characters are effected for the first time.

 

[Willy Womack]

In fact you didn't list any actual reasoning why we are supposedly out of touch. You made a blanket statement with no logical argument at all. It's interesting that I make these posts with many actual factual examples to back my point, without any name calling or insults, and get responses like this.

But you guys aren't emotional about the topic, we are.





Also our point isn't two wrongs make a right. Our point is this is literally how all media has always worked. Yet we only see outrage now, when suddenly white characters are effected for the first time.

*Affected.

Who is our? I'm talking to you. Likewise you keep referring to me as "you guys". You responded to my original post with a "central point" that is irrelevant. Are you one of the creators in Hollywood that's shoehorning diversity into films to virtue signal and avoid criticism? If you're not then I don't know why you're saying "we" as if I was talking to you. The out of touch comment has nothing to do with you (funny, btw, how you conveniently ignore everything in my posts but that one comment). I admit ad hominems are immature but you don't seem to have proficient reading comprehension.

As I've said before, quality is the priority. Whether old characters were whitewashed doesn't matter if the film is good . If a new Bond with a black lead is good it won't matter. I myself prefer authenticity, but I won't lose sleep either way.

A good sign of creators being out of touch, by the way, is a financial disappointment. We'll see what happens going forward but there are examples enough (including all the shitty films you mentioned earlier).

What do you care anyway if whites want to see the white character Bond played by a white? Do you have proof that nobody complained about whitewashing in films back in the day? They have for decades. When exactly did they start? You say we only hear about it now that whites are affected? Prove it. That's a load of horseshit.

Bond movies have been shit for a while now anyway. If they make Bond black while changing nothing else with hopes of revitalizing the series then that does little to disprove my claims of hackery and creative bankruptcy. Whether it's happened before doesn't matter. Plenty of shit movies were made before and plenty of franchises died before. If they (or am I supposed to include you in this?) have any balls and talent they'll make NEW diverse stories and characters, preferably written by diverse people. They probably won't though because they're cowardly hacks. The new line of Marvel comics, and their horrendous sales, are a fine example.

 

[Mike]

*Affected.

Who is our? I'm talking to you. Likewise you keep referring to me as "you guys". You responded to my original post with a "central point" that is irrelevant. Are you one of the creators in Hollywood that's shoehorning diversity into films to virtue signal and avoid criticism? If you're not then I don't know why you're saying "we" as if I was talking to you. The out of touch comment has nothing to do with you (funny, btw, how you conveniently ignore everything in my posts but that one comment). I admit ad hominems are immature but you don't seem to have proficient reading comprehension.

As I've said before, quality is the priority. Whether old characters were whitewashed doesn't matter if the film is good . If a new Bond with a black lead is good it won't matter. I myself prefer authenticity, but I won't lose sleep either way.

A good sign of creators being out of touch, by the way, is a financial disappointment. We'll see what happens going forward but there are examples enough (including all the shitty films you mentioned earlier).

What do you care anyway if whites want to see the white character Bond played by a white? Do you have proof that nobody complained about whitewashing in films back in the day? They have for decades. When exactly did they start? You say we only hear about it now that whites are affected? Prove it. That's a load of horseshit.

Bond movies have been shit for a while now anyway. If they make Bond black while changing nothing else with hopes of revitalizing the series then that does little to disprove my claims of hackery and creative bankruptcy. Whether it's happened before doesn't matter. Plenty of shit movies were made before and plenty of franchises died before. If they (or am I supposed to include you in this?) have any balls and talent they'll make NEW diverse stories and characters, preferably written by diverse people. They probably won't though because they're cowardly hacks. The new line of Marvel comics, and their horrendous sales, are a fine example.

Insults are immature but here's some more. Followed by criticism of one incidental typo in a long post I made on my phone. Such intellectual debate.

Our meaning people on my side of the debate. That's not incredibly obvious.... somehow? Ok. And I have poor reading comprehension. Alright.

I didn't ignore the point you made. I just pointed out it's a purely emotional point disguised as a logical one, and the logic doesn't make a lot of sense. We didn't see anywhere near this kind of backlash when it was business as usual with Hollywood whitewashing nearly every ethnic role.

They're not going to just create an entirely new Ip every single time out. They're going to adapt existing franchises as often as possible because they have enormous investment in those properties. Again, really obvious. Don't know why that even has to be clarified, it's so obvious.

As far as caring if white people want a white bond. No, I don't really care. But if you're going to use logically inconsistent arguments people are going to point it out. It's not a new SJW thing, it's not some attack on Bond or whites. It's business as usual. If you guys would admit that and stop using all these other weak reasons why it's wrong or inauthentic this conversation would have been over awhile ago. Hollywood doesn't give a shit about those things and never has.

 

[MikeMcMann]

...

Im just saying you seem very angry about this whole thing

Again, funny hearing that from the ones who are clearly emotional over this topic (we won't stand for this.... WAAAA).

Project much?

 

[MikeMcMann]

How many times did i tell you that the viewers don't know whether the actor portraying James Bond is actually british or not because an accent can be acted on screen. I never said he HAD to be british. I said James Bond is a british white male.

I'm done arguing with you. You are clearly thick headed as fuck.

Backtrack now as you will. Bond does not have to be as you define him. He has changed and will continue to change almost certainly if the Bond mythology goes on another 60 years. If Idris was 15 years younger he would almost certainly get the role now. A future 'Idris' will get the Bond role. Let that sink in and stew in your triggered tears while crying out "Noooo, he is not white!'

 

[MikeMcMann]

You know it still comes down to this. I wish you guys would just admit it. Not wanting a character you like to drastically change isn't racist, doesn't make you a bad person, etc. It's just not a logical argument. You guys back this gut feeling up with objectively false points, and that's why this keeps going on.

1. Changing races of characters is not new, in any form of media. These changes are done to cater to whatever demographic results in the most profits

2. It's not some SJW plot to cater to minorities out of identity politics, see point #1. The only difference is movies are playing to a far more diverse audience than a generation ago. The people making these decisions want to maximize profit, nothing more.

3. You can look at any point in time, and more characters were being white washed than changed to minorities. Far, far more. In fact changing ANY character from white to non white is a relatively new phenomenon.

4. When you refuse to acknowledge the above points out of ignorance, or because the white washing was in your favor, it hurts the legitimacy of your point. Just admit you don't want the character to change because you personally do not like change. Tying it to some anti white agenda makes you look completely ridiculous given the actual history of the film industry.

Nailed it.

And they won't deal with it. When I wrote a similar point by point post upthread of course the reply was 'i'm not reading that...', lol. That was despite him reading longer posts before or after. So of course he read it. He just could not answer the points so he had to deflect and hide.

This is not about their very minority opinions that Bond cannot be black. They can hold that opinion and remain in a tiny minority. It is about all the factual inaccuracies they have to lie to themselves to try and convince themselves they have any logical basis for their opinions and it is not just all ignorance and emotion which it is.

 

[revoltub]

Man and i thought a blonde bond triggered people.

 

[I Am Legion]

Forgetting that he is black....Idris doesn’t look the part. First off he is 46 but looks 56. He has rough features, not classically handsome. He is also heavy looking. The source material based Bond on Hogan Carmichael, an American singer. Narrow face, long skinny nose and dark hair. Think Pierce Brosnan and Timothy Dalton. I am a huge fan of Idris and am watching Luther now. He just isn’t James Bond. Take the snowflake crap out of it...no one looks at the guy and thinks James Bond. Plenty of white actors that would be a poor choice as well. I don’t think Superman would be a great choice either...In Mission Impossible he looked HUGE.