Idris Elba rumored to be next Bond

[FierceRedBelt]

I mean if your point is we used to do things differently not long ago, then sure. Just about everything was done differently not long ago. When I was a little kid interracial relationships were still frowned upon. Like.... 30 years ago. Things change quickly.

I don't have any beef with someone saying a first generation citizen is English.

I do have beef with saying that hundreds, or even thousands, of years of ancestral ties to that land means nothing.

 

[BisexualMMA]

I don't have any beef with someone saying a first generation citizen is English.

I do have beef with saying that hundreds, or even thousands, of years of ancestral ties to that land means nothing.

What do these ties mean to you, and how is that meaning to be effectively implemented in the world?

 

[Mike]

I don't have any beef with someone saying a first generation citizen is English.

I do have beef with saying that hundreds, or even thousands, of years of ancestral ties to that land means nothing.

All that stuff means whatever people want it to mean. It does nothing for me, but if it's important to someone else I have nothing against it. As long as they don't use it to be a bigot of some sort.

 

[FierceRedBelt]

What do these ties mean to you, and how is that meaning to be effectively implemented in the world?

Nothing outside of a cultural description.

My father was raised by an American mother and an immigrant father. His cultural upbringing was very different than my mother who was raised by two Americans. It certainly means a lot when describing a person but nearly nothing legally.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Nothing outside of a cultural description.

My father was raised by an American mother and an immigrant father. His cultural upbringing was very different than my mother who was raised by two Americans. It certainly means a lot when describing a person but nearly nothing legally.

Yes, it is an important element of describing your father. Is it an important element of describing your grandchildren?

 

[FierceRedBelt]

All that stuff means whatever people want it to mean. It does nothing for me, but if it's important to someone else I have nothing against it. As long as they don't use it to be a bigot of some sort.

So if you walked into a room with first generation Kenyan American and a 20th generation African American you'd expect them to both a similar representation of African American culture?

 

[Graves The Elder]

Idris who?
I say we need a quadraplegic, transgender agent of color to evolve the Bond
character, s/he/it could drive a solar powered wheelchair that when pursued
would leave in it's wake non-biodegradable waste and buttery crisps emblazoned
with a rainbow design and whales or seals or some other endangered critter on them.

 

[FierceRedBelt]

Yes, it is an important element of describing your father. Is it an important element of describing your grandchildren?

My grandchildren would be the first generation shielded from it and that's when it would start to mean very little to who they are.

It takes about 100 years for immigrant populations to completely integrate into their host nations culture. The short cut to this of course is to intermarry but even then, like in the case of my father, a lot of weird stuff can still carry on.

 

[Mike]

So if you walked into a room with first generation Kenyan American and a 20th generation African American you'd expect them to both a similar representation of African American culture?

Nah Because people are individuals. I don't even like looking at people like that. I'm half black, so just black 99% of the time. And half my life has been people telling me I'm not black enough. Other black people give me dirty looks and treat me like an uncle tom because I don't "act" black enough. Ok.... I wasn't raised in a black neighborhood around black people though.


I think people should be free to be whoever they want to be. All that talk eventually leads to stay in your lane, you're too much this or not enough of that. It's arbitrary and stupid to me.


I've worked around a lot of African immigrants, went to school with them. Lived around them. Some come over and pick up "black" culture, some don't. Probably depends on the environments they're exposed to. As long as they're happy, more power to them. Nobody "owns" such abstract concepts. It would be ok if these attempts at ownership didn't frequently come down to trying to govern the behavior of others, but that's how it typically plays out.

 

[FierceRedBelt]

What does that matter?

Is someone who direct ancestors for 900 years as English as someone who direct ancestors for 1000? What about 800 years? What about 700 years? 600? 500? ...

Please rank and give me some measure of their Britishness that is quantifiable and that could actually be explained for every hundred year increment from 1000 to newly born there?

I saw that as I hope it shows it is a silly distinction to try and make. They are all british if born there, period but if you disagree please break it down as I ask above.

As I said above to Bhop I doubt such comments ever come up with Brits like Hugh Grant even if the person has no clue if he is first generation Brit or 10th. It seems this distinction that he is 'less than' only starts being argued when it is an ethnic first generation Brit. And if he was a 10th generation then he would not be as Brit as a 30 generation guy.

It becomes insignificant when you're past grandparents because you've not been directly raised by someone with a foreign culture.

But if you want to get super silly about it I'll join you. If you could find someone of direct Roman ancestry who never intermixed with the native English population he'd be somewhat less of a part of English ancestry than someone who's lineage predates that. But you see how silly that is? Right? If you can't remember an ancestor wasn't English you're splitting hairs at that point.

I've never even been to England so I'm not sure if phenotype plays into the experience. It's very possible the white English way of life is very different than the black English way of life.

 

[Mike]

The highly individual nature of this stuff makes it not worth caring about for me. You probably couldn't find a person less interested in their "heritage" I don't have strong relationships with any of my family, or know much about my family history at all. So everything that I am, has been shaped by my experiences. Never worry about being a representative of "my people", because I have no people.

As a result I look at people defined by their skin pigment, or where there grandfather was born, and it just seems kind of weak to me. You are defined by what you do. Not your skin color, or ancestors, or being a 2nd generation this or 10th generation that. IMO, the stronger your sense of self, the less you need such labels. All that extensive labeling is for people that aren't secure, for whatever reason, in who THEY are.

You don't control your color or where you were born, so why take pride in that? YOU didn't have anything to do with it. Take pride in who YOU have decided to be.

 

[MikeMcMann]

It becomes insignificant when you're past grandparents because you've not been directly raised by someone with a foreign culture.

But if you want to get super silly about it I'll join you. If you could find someone of direct Roman ancestry who never intermixed with the native English population he'd be somewhat less of a part of English ancestry than someone who's lineage predates that. But you see how silly that is? Right? If you can't remember an ancestor wasn't English you're splitting hairs at that point.

I've never even been to England so I'm not sure if phenotype plays into the experience. It's very possible the white English way of life is very different than the black English way of life.

ok it seems you have your own very subjective set of rules for what makes a true brit. You are entitled to that but each person will likely have their own slightly different view.

I again ask if this question gets raised over Hugh Grant even if no one knows his ancestry? I've never seen it raised for him or Cumberland or Holland, etc, etc, etc, but in this case where you have an ethnic born in England who looks, speaks and has all the mannerisms of a true old school Brit gentlemen suddenly then defining a 'true Brit' via many generations becomes important. suddenly a distinction is needed.

 

[FierceRedBelt]

ok it seems you have your own very subjective set of rules for what makes a true brit. You are entitled to that but each person will likely have their own slightly different view.

I again ask if this question gets raised over Hugh Grant even if no one knows his ancestry? I've never seen it raised for him or Cumberland or Holland, etc, etc, etc, but in this case where you have an ethnic born in England who looks, speaks and has all the mannerisms of a true old school Brit gentlemen suddenly then defining a 'true Brit' via many generations becomes important. suddenly a distinction is needed.

I don't have an answer for the Grant question but if he sat down and told me how he was the prototypical representation of English culture but his mother is Russian, or something like that, I'd find it pretty silly.

It sounds like you're asking, why none whites are treated differently even when a white could be just as foreign? Because people naturally have a pre-established idea for what things are and the white people aren't throwing off the red flags the black people are.

Can a black man trace his ancestry back to the first man to walk on English soil? Sure and is it kinda fucked that some Swiss guy would be considered more English than him by the average person within a generation? Sure, but people suck, and that doesn't make it true.

 

[FierceRedBelt]

The highly individual nature of this stuff makes it not worth caring about for me. You probably couldn't find a person less interested in their "heritage" I don't have strong relationships with any of my family, or know much about my family history at all. So everything that I am, has been shaped by my experiences. Never worry about being a representative of "my people", because I have no people.

As a result I look at people defined by their skin pigment, or where there grandfather was born, and it just seems kind of weak to me. You are defined by what you do. Not your skin color, or ancestors, or being a 2nd generation this or 10th generation that. IMO, the stronger your sense of self, the less you need such labels. All that extensive labeling is for people that aren't secure, for whatever reason, in who THEY are.

You don't control your color or where you were born, so why take pride in that? YOU didn't have anything to do with it. Take pride in who YOU have decided to be.

I appreciate your response.

I do agree that your actions should be much more important than what you look like. But much like you've said your life experience is effected by the way you look; whether that's race, height, fitness, or having an attractive face. I'm never going to walk into a room and get as positive of a response as Brad Pitt would. It's just the way it is and it does end up being a part of who we are.

I know people aren't typically going to be super receptive of me when I walk into a room and I need to earn people's affection before I can make a connection. But that has a lot to do with how I look physically and how I present myself. College aged black girls and middle aged Asian women are extremely receptive to me compared to all other women; I suspect that's because I'm a white guy who isn't too attractive.

 

[Phlog]

I'd assume I'm the one you're talking about. Are you saying that having long standing ancestral ties to a place means nothing? That's absurd to me. We're not talking about rights as citizen but how long it typically takes someone to become a part of the host population's culture and to a lesser extent genetics.

I don't care about James Bond, the sjw's, or their opposing groups.




Native American's are the true American's which makes the average Mexican much more American than the average American.


But on a serious note you need to stop applying your American views on the rest of the world. America is a science experiment that was started on annexed land and the European and Asian nations are not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

The soil birth right thing is very much a new world thing.

No it isn't.

I'm living in England, have done all my life. I have parents from different countries but I'm white and because of that people have zero problem considering me English.

I went to private schools, I played croquet with the upper class, lived in a medieval Manor house, I even got baby sat by the mother of the Duchess of Cambridge (Kate Middleton) when I was a child.

I never in my life was considered to be anything other than English and yet I have zero ancestry here. It's not even soil birthright as I wasn't actually born here.

All that it takes is to be brought up in it.

What you are suggesting, possibly without knowing it, is that if I were black I would not be considered English and THAT, ladies and gentlemen, as my evidence indeed proves is a result of racism and nothing else. That might make it true none the less however, we are after all, all subject to implicit racism.

 

[FierceRedBelt]

No it isn't.

I'm living in England, have done all my life. I have parents from different countries but I'm white and because of that people have zero problem considering me English.

I went to private schools, I played croquet with the upper class, lived in a medieval Manor house, I even got baby sat by the mother of the Duchess of Cambridge (Kate Middleton) when I was a child.

I never in my life was considered to be anything other than English and yet I have zero ancestry here. It's not even soil birthright as I wasn't actually born here.

All that it takes is to be brought up in it.

What you are suggesting, possibly without knowing it, is that if I were black I would not be considered English and THAT, ladies and gentlemen, as my evidence indeed proves is a result of racism and nothing else.

Where did you get all that from? I said an ancestral tie to the land isn't meaningless.

And how is saying a black man has less of a chance of having an Ancestral tie to England racist? That's no more racist than saying a white guy is unlikely to trace his ancestry back to prehistoric Japan. You're allowed to question people and it doesn't make you a monster.

And if you weren't born in England you certainly are less English than Idris. This conversation has devolved into something weird if being English just means living in England and it's racist to suggest anything otherwise.

 

[number 9]

O yes a black guy exactly what I think of when someone says James Bond.

Fucking PC bullshit.

Yea wtf is this shit... when the fuck this happened? Prob shouldn't had clicked this shitty thread... ts agreeing to such blasphemy

Just doesn't feel right... James muthafuckin bond cannot be black, Indian, Asian, Dominican, Brazilian etc etc... that shit just does not feel right

Just keep the character how it's always been...

 

[Phlog]

Where did you get all that from? I said an ancestral tie to the land isn't meaningless.

And how is saying a black man has less of a chance of having an Ancestral tie to England racist? That's no more racist than saying a white guy is unlikely to trace his ancestry back to prehistoric Japan. You're allowed to question people and it doesn't make you a monster.

And if you weren't born in England you certainly are less English than Idris. This conversation has devolved into something weird if being English just means living in England and it's racist to suggest anything otherwise.

What I meant is that to the English, as far as they know and care, I am English. Were I to play Bond no one would be saying I'm not English etc. It's not Idris Elba's Englishness that is getting people's panties in a bunch, it's the colour of his skin.

There have been black Englishmen since the 17th century to my knowledge, you can have been black and English longer than your country existed.

 

[Phlog]

What the fuck are we going to do as a species, at least in the West about living together in peace?

This whole race thing is so tiring. A constant refrain. To get to a place where you could be against a black James Bond and make a thread yet bot have anyone mention racism would be amazing. Where we see race and it means something but no one's fucked by it. Is that even possiblelop

 

[number 9]

What I meant is that to the English, as far as they know and care, I am English. Were I to play Bond no one would be saying I'm not English etc. It's not Idris Elba's Englishness that is getting people's panties in a bunch, it's the colour of his skin.

There have been black Englishmen since the 17th century to my knowledge, you can have been black and English longer than your country existed.

So what are you saying... you agree with this cast? I didn't go through all the pages, but this shit got nothing to do about racism and everything to do about just keeping the character the way he is since the 50's