I rewatched Heat last night for the first time in probably 20 years. Let's talk about it.

[Guestx]

Recently I watched Den of Thieves, which keeps getting compared to Heat, and that lead to @FierceRedBelt and I discussing the various merits of the film, as well as where it may fall short.

I hadn't seen Heat in a very long time. Maybe 20 years. But last night I decided to give it another look and see how well it holds up.

Ultimately, I walked away feeling like it's a great film, but also an imperfect one.

The story is very much in Michael Mann's wheelhouse and obviously the cast and performances are amazing. This is when Pacino and DeNiro were still in top form, and guys like Val Kilmer and Tom Sizemore weren't yet shadows of their former selves.

Likewise, there are many genuinely thrilling and well-staged scenes, such as the bank-heist-gone-wrong, the meeting in the diner between Vincent and Neil, and the final confrontation between those two characters.

Technically, the movie is nearly perfect. But is it just me, or does the movie feel "cold?"

I realized while watching it last night that, while the film is so well-made in so many ways, that I was not emotionally invested in it. I didn't really care about any of the characters and didn't empathize with them. Probably the closest I got to giving a shit what happened to any of them was feeling bad for Neil's girlfriend and caring a little that Natalie Portman's dad doesn't give a shit about her.

And as I see it, all of this combined with the visual look of the film (lots of stark blacks and whites with relatively little color) and soundtrack choices add up to a movie that holds the viewer at arms length.

There also were a few other things that didn't seem to quite match the quality of the rest of the film, such as the scene where Chris goes to see his wife and she waves him away. He gets stopped by the police and, despite the fact that they know EXACTLY who they're looking for, they let him go because he had a fake ID. That felt like Michael Mann cutting some corners to me.

All in all, I think it's a great film, but also one that left me feeling a little emotionally dead inside. And I think that's why I haven't rewatched it in so long.

What do you guys think? How do you feel about Heat? Is this really the GOAT crime film as some seem to think or are my criticisms on point?

It you want a rating, I'll give it an 8.5/10.

 

[BisexualMMA]

One of the best casts ever assembled. When Tom Noonan, William Fichtner and Hank Azaria are maybe 15th on the depth chart, that's a serious group of actors.

It's a great movie but not above criticism in a couple places.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I found myself less and less interested as it went on. Heist scene shoot-out was great though.

 

[jojoRed]

The sound design is just, on another level to every other movie. No movie has ever captured to sound of how the cracks, whips and deafening sound of gunfire ever like this movie accomplished. With each burst of gunfire, you damn well wanna duck to avoid it even though you know its a movie. Its a true masterpiece in sound design. Movies have taken inspiration from this but theyve never truly captured that "gun sound" and its been 23 years since it released.




As for the movie feeling "cold", its the color palette. IMO it represents the smooth cool nature of the characters if we're trying to be pretentious analytical critics but its damn well great movie.

 

[MMA since 1993]

in my humble opinion, it has be a top 5 crime drama. Possible contender to for G.O.A.T crime drama.

 

[minute bull]

As the years go by, Hanna looks better and better while McCauley falls further and further into liquor store cowboy with a BORN TO LOSE tattoo across the forehead. I also love watching how everyone else is leaning, ducking, or standing off in the distance in order to not make it obvious how short the main players are. Ashley Judd is almost upside down in certain scenes opposite Neil. That's hard for some DeNiro fans, but it's true. It's also true HEAT is the Hollywood version of Mann's previous LA TAKEDOWN, and honestly they're about even in terms of overall execution.

I watch the movie mentally replacing Kilmer with Keanu Reeves, who was originally supposed to be, and makes more sense as, Chris Shiherlis. I can tell how JOHN WICK's moves seek to be superior than that infamous Kilmer gif, as Wick is constantly shooting/reloading/shooting without cutting away.

 

[Zer]

I rewatched it pretty recently too and it's definitely a top shelf film. I can understand people finding it emotionally dead but I completely empathized with the characters and the ending always brings a tear to my eye. I see it as a film about the self-destructive nature of dudes. McCauley and Hanna both so invested in their work that they can't lead a life outside of it. The respect, the bond they develop even though they're pitted against each other goes to show how desperately lonely they are but it can only end in one of them killing the other

 

[jojoRed]

I watch the movie mentally replacing Kilmer with Keanu Reeves, who was originally supposed to be, and makes more sense as, Chris Shiherlis. I can tell how JOHN WICK's moves seek to be superior than that infamous Kilmer gif, as Wick is constantly shooting/reloading/shooting without cutting away.

Say what you will about Kilmer but imo he was perfect, Keanu just doesnt have that slimy bank robber type feel to him if you get what Im saying. Also Kilmer's character isnt some professional cartoonistic hitman, there's realism to missing, not reloading properly in the heat of fire etc. People dont always stay John Wick cool in firefights.

 

[Guestx]

It's a great movie but not above criticism in a couple places.

You're all about characters and a movie making you FEEL something.

How do you feel about the characters in this films? Do you empathize with them? Does the movie resonate with you emotionally?

 

[CrimsonFan]

Its a good movie, but doesnt hold a candle to the Godfather, Scarface, Goodfellas, and such.

 

[HUNTERMANIA]

Honestly surprised with all the movie threads from you the past several years that you hadn't seen this in 20 years. One of the GOAT.

Going to see Den of Thieves tonight simply bc you said it was being compared to Heat by people, lol. That's how great this movie is, IMO.

 

[Guestx]

I found myself less and less interested as it went on. Heist scene shoot-out was great though.

The shoot-out is definitely excellent but while I was watching it I had to wonder how realistic it was in the sense that I wasn't sure if cops would actually engage in a shoot out in a crowded area like that.

I mean, it's kind of like in a high-speed chase, when the speed gets to dangerous levels the cops are told to back up to protect civilians. I'd think it would be the same way in a situation like this. The guys who robbed the bank just want to get away. I suspect that in real life the cops would let them do that instead of blasting automatic fire everywhere as if there aren't a ton of regular people standing around.

 

[Guestx]

Honestly surprised with all the movie threads from you the past several years that you hadn't seen this in 20 years. One of the GOAT.

It's definitely been a long time. It's been one of those movies where I'm always like, "Yeah, that's a great movie!" but I don't really feel like watching it again.

Going to see Den of Thieves tonight simply bc you said it was being compared to Heat by people, lol. That's how great this movie is, IMO.

Den of Thieves definitely takes a lot of inspiration from Heat, though I think it also does a good job of carving out its own identity. I enjoyed it.

I actually have a Den of Thieves thread around here somewhere. If you do go watch it, dig that thread up and give me your thoughts.

 

[BisexualMMA]

You're all about characters and a movie making you FEEL something.

How do you feel about the characters in this films? Do you empathize with them? Does the movie resonate with you emotionally?

Yeah, I identified quite well with Pacino, DeNiro and Dennis Haysbert. There were plenty of good impactful moments like Danny Trejo's last scene with DeNiro, DeNiro being torn momentarily about revenge against Kevin Gage (Waingro) and then torn momentarily about leaving Amy Brenneman, who was also easy to empathize with.

 

[minute bull]

Say what you will about Kilmer but imo he was perfect, Keanu just doesnt have that slimy bank robber type feel to him if you get what Im saying.

No doubt.

It's just that, as written, Chris is supposed to be a much younger guy, a guy looking up to Neil a la GSP and RoMac. His spiritual successor is Vincent from COLLATERAL. I like when Keanu plays anti-Neo characters, because it's so rare for him to emote onscreen. I like the idea of his cold countenance staring down Charlene, and I wonder, "Holy shit, can Keanu do the Menace-Face?" He was menacing in THE GIFT, and it was great. They're relationship feels more organic if both of them were young people; Kilmer might be twice Judd's age. Keanu would be a cooler cowboy, tho.

Related, I do the same thing, mentally replacing Cameron Diaz with Rihanna in the movie THE COUNSELOR.

 

[HUNTERMANIA]

It's definitely been a long time. It's been one of those movies where I'm always like, "Yeah, that's a great movie!" but I don't really feel like watching it again.



Den of Thieves definitely takes a lot of inspiration from Heat, though I think it also does a good job of carving out its own identity. I enjoyed it.

I actually have a Den of Thieves thread around here somewhere. If you do go watch it, dig that thread up and give me your thoughts.

mmm... don't spoil it, but did you enjoy The Town ? How do you think that compared to Den of Thieves --- I absolutely loved that in theater. One of my best theater experiences.


also lol @ the idea of keanu being able to play kilmer's character at all. That would have been a disaster.

 

[Guestx]

mmm... don't spoil it, but did you enjoy The Town ? How do you think that compared to Den of Thieves --- I absolutely loved that in theater. One of my best theater experiences.

I did enjoy The Town a lot and would say it's a little better movie than Den of Thieves.

I think I ended up giving Den of Thieves a 7.5. It's not a masterpiece, but it is a well-made crime thriller and Gerard Butler gives an excellent performance.

 

[jojoRed]

Fuck did it feel like movies in the 90s, early 2000s were much better than the drivel we get now?

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

The shoot-out is definitely excellent but while I was watching it I had to wonder how realistic it was in the sense that I wasn't sure if cops would actually engage in a shoot out in a crowded area like that.

I mean, it's kind of like in a high-speed chase, when the speed gets to dangerous levels the cops are told to back up to protect civilians. I'd think it would be the same way in a situation like this. The guys who robbed the bank just want to get away. I suspect that in real life the cops would let them do that instead of blasting automatic fire everywhere as if there aren't a ton of regular people standing around.

Well, there's this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

 

[Guestx]

Fuck did it feel like movies in the 90s, early 2000s were much better than the drivel we get now?

Coming off the year that just gave us Blade Runner 2049, no, not necessarily.

I think there were good movies then and there are good movies now.