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I am unnerved by modern vehicles.

As far as styling /looks are concerned American cars are butt ugly nowadays. I hope American sedans make a come back but seems like a remote possibility. However, I have a friend who works at a Ford dealership and he says a lot of people still state they would rather buy a sedan than a truck or SUV or crossover.
 
I have heard of him, although I've never spent a lot of time on his stuff. Good call.

'Humans are the reproductive organs of Technology'.💀

Taking the bigger picture we've basically got the emergence of superhuman AI, Transhumanism, and the absorption of Man into/subordination of Man to Machine.

You would also have to do all your sums with pen and paper lol. Been a long time since I've done that for anything not very simple. It's shocking how much skill has been lost in so short a time.

Anyway a rough consumption figure for a diesel train is 4 gallons per mile (40lbs). Diesel doesn't go off too much, left exposed to air, unless maybe we're thinking about scenarios many decades or more after the breakdown of civilisation. It can be cleaned up and the pipes it's been sitting in cleaned if necessary. There should be plenty left around for a while, although once that ran out that would be it for the foreseeable future.

I'm not really into Post-Apocalyptic fiction so maybe it's passed me by, but I don't remember seeing people portrayed struggling to get obsolete technology going after a nuclear war very often. It was in Z for Zechariah IIRC, they had an old abandoned tractor and made a water mill or something. But that's the only example I remember.

Anyway when you think it through, there are probably quite a lot of older diesel engines about which would run after EMPs. Moving them where you wanted, connecting them to what you wanted to power, and starting them would take effort and ingenuity, but seems plausible if you had enough people, and at least one who could figure out how to do so.

You can power most things with a (previous generation) diesel engine. Air tools from a compressor for instance. You could also forge metal on a small scale, burning compressed gas. Until it ran out. Then back to coal and the bellows. If you had no coal or gas I can't see how you would get steel hot enough. Mining coal old school-style in such a scenario could get grim.

So we've got potentially

old diesel engines
steam engines
oxyacetylene etc. cutting and welding
air tools
basic forging
maybe some kind of wind or water mills

That's actually pretty good. However I think in this scenario survivors would tend to 'revert' technologies through the decades. People wouldn't be able to keep things running forever. In a 'best case' scenario they might end up at early 18th century technology.

Along waterways you cound transport goods like this

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You would want gas or coal to do their shoes though. If a horse like that eats 10lbs of oats a day (vague figure), and you get two tons of oats an acre (vague figure, taking into account conditions, and warmer climes will give a better yield), one acre of oats gives you 448 horse-days of work a year, gross. With the decreased population there would happily be no shortage of grass and hay. So horsepower would seem practical.
Another Carrington Event could cause a similar situation. Which is inevitable, although who knows when.

It also occured to me that if things got really bad people could go back to using oxen to pull things lol. They are hardier than horses, although not as strong, and need less food (quantity and quality) and care. Taste nicer as well, should things come to that.

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Rose colored glasses.

Modern cars are sooooo comfortable, safe, and easy to deal with compared to cars of the past.
 
Not buying for reliability.

Give me

A. The Judge ......... Pontiac GTO 1969
B. 1967 GTO
C. 1970 Chevelle SS
I was close to pulling the trigger on a chevelle SS. Ended up with a challanger hellcat. It’s not as cool but I can daily drive it without tinkering and it’s not bad on gas if you don’t step on it
 
Well, many people like that shit, like you, so just because I hate it it doesn‘t mean that I can‘t see the demand for it.

No manual windows are a pain. Generally I would be fine with going back to analog technology in car i.e. circuits and manual switches.
I think you mean intuitive controls that are physical and I partially agree, however I'm not opposed to the idea of redesign from scratch approaches, which may or may not work.

do I need a physical key?
do I need a switch for the temperature? Should AC be standard?

obviously some stuff would make no sense, like exiting the car by going inside of a touch menu, but if a company wants to dream big and make seemless operations, I'm open for it. I like having tactile buttons for the radio....... but then radio stations is no longer a source of media anymore, times have changed, and a keyboard might be more useful. On the flip side, are infotainment systems even necessary if people are on their phones because they are far superior for that function?

we're in this stage where auto manufacturers make terrible UI's but if they were terrific, how would the public accept them compared to tactile buttons?

some of it can be really convenient like child lock doors in the menu. I imagine most folks really do not like turning the physical switches for child locks on each door, but if you can do it digitally, not so bad. FORCING many of the controls into the menu can be cumbersome and it also can have the advantage that less frequent controls should placed into a certain location rather than have a physical control, like display brightness/kph vs mph, cant tell you how many times my wife accidentally ran into that display brightness control and can no longer see the dash <lol>

it's the classic case of android vs iphone, sometimes less is more, sometimes more is more :)
 
I think you mean intuitive controls that are physical and I partially agree, however I'm not opposed to the idea of redesign from scratch approaches, which may or may not work.

do I need a physical key?
do I need a switch for the temperature? Should AC be standard?

obviously some stuff would make no sense, like exiting the car by going inside of a touch menu, but if a company wants to dream big and make seemless operations, I'm open for it. I like having tactile buttons for the radio....... but then radio stations is no longer a source of media anymore, times have changed, and a keyboard might be more useful. On the flip side, are infotainment systems even necessary if people are on their phones because they are far superior for that function?

we're in this stage where auto manufacturers make terrible UI's but if they were terrific, how would the public accept them compared to tactile buttons?

some of it can be really convenient like child lock doors in the menu. I imagine most folks really do not like turning the physical switches for child locks on each door, but if you can do it digitally, not so bad. FORCING many of the controls into the menu can be cumbersome and it also can have the advantage that less frequent controls should placed into a certain location rather than have a physical control, like display brightness/kph vs mph, cant tell you how many times my wife accidentally ran into that display brightness control and can no longer see the dash <lol>

it's the classic case of android vs iphone, sometimes less is more, sometimes more is more :)
Please allow me to completely disagree here. There is the road safety component. I cannot accept digital functions for stuff like AC. I have been in a car whose menu was so insane intuitive that it became a hazard on the highway.

Then, stuff like hand brake. These mechatronic switches are NOT intuitive. If you press them are they on? Or is it when you pull them? Typically you pull a hand break. I think that the car in the pond is a frequent occurence with these shit buttons. I know I have had my car drifting because I thought the hand break was on. Just imagine your car going down a hill with children in it.

Sorry good sir but fuck all that. Safety first. A car is not an Ipad.
 
Yes I hate this. Fuck modern cars. All that digitrash is forced upon us. For as long as I can I will buy second hand vehicled with a real handbreak and manual transmission.
What are you driving in Germany ? A volks ? BMW ? I love those German cars
 
What are you driving in Germany ? A volks ? BMW ? I love those German cars
My previous car was a VW 2.0L diesel. That think was amazing. Drove like a sports car. An engineering prodigy even if relatively cheap car. But shit broke all the time. Now I drive a Toyota. Let me tell you , it drives like absolute shit. And NGL shit has broken down in it too. Fuck cars.
 
Dorks who can't do things invent technology that can he
Not buying for reliability.

Give me

A. The Judge ......... Pontiac GTO 1969
B. 1967 GTO
C. 1970 Chevelle SS
I'm all over a 69 442 Hurst Olds......

simpsons-dreamy.gif
 
My previous car was a VW 2.0L diesel. That think was amazing. Drove like a sports car. An engineering prodigy even if relatively cheap car. But shit broke all the time. Now I drive a Toyota. Let me tell you , it drives like absolute shit. And NGL shit has broken down in it too. Fuck cars.
A car is never a good investment lol, i have a Audi A4 that i love but damn i know when it will break...i will have to invest good $$$ to repair it...but i love the comfort. also...i don't want to change the car, i prefer a paid car that i just have to put repairs in it.
 
Please allow me to completely disagree here. There is the road safety component. I cannot accept digital functions for stuff like AC. I have been in a car whose menu was so insane intuitive that it became a hazard on the highway.

Then, stuff like hand brake. These mechatronic switches are NOT intuitive. If you press them are they on? Or is it when you pull them? Typically you pull a hand break. I think that the car in the pond is a frequent occurence with these shit buttons. I know I have had my car drifting because I thought the hand break was on. Just imagine your car going down a hill with children in it.

Sorry good sir but fuck all that. Safety first. A car is not an Ipad.
oh yes, this is a valid point, tactile buttons allow you to feel without taking your eyes off the road

however, it's not completely foolproof either. Like I mentioned, the dimmer dial for the display on my toyota can be completely shut off, rendering your dash completely useless. This is a physical dial and it's confusing on two fronts, first, where is the control, secondly what does the control even look like. If you're going to look for the control while driving, all is lost. Similar to AC, you shouldnt have to turn away like that, however for the flip side is that with AC, you basically set to 68-70 and you can forget it. If you're like me, then you may not even use it, but I can see that being a valid point.

I see some digital items that can work out really well
folding mirrors - digital only for car wash, works well
childlocks - digital only works great
windows - physical toggle, likely wont get better
there are things that I dont care for but you will get varying answers depending on who you ask
bluetooth
radio
cd/dvd player
entertainment system
interior light switches
electronic handbrakes vs good old fashion pull
lane assist, some folks swear by that tech
security features
safety features
heated seats

modern cars can have a crap ton of features, and a crap ton of buttons, knobs, can be confusing. You also have to consider that self driving cars are already here, may folks on the roads dont need to keep their eyes on the roads anymore, a centralized console can make sense for them.
 
I know a guy with a Tesla that drinks and drives. Actually the car drives, he just sits in it. Never swerves, never speeds, gets him home safe. Fucking insanity. I drove the new Electric Charger. It looks like the beater 69 I had. Mine had no PS, no PB, and was rear wheel with a 318. In the snow and rain I was all over. This new EV was a rocket, and basically did everything for you.

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I do not share many of your sentiments, but I would definitely prefer that key functions of the car were not operated through a touchscreen. Some manufacturers make you tap the screen to change the AC unit settings. It is unsafe!
975nchb1xgnlj621l6ldh0k0ilui6jdj.jpg
 
They wept for humanity, those two, not for themselves. They could not bear that this should be the end. Ere silence was completed their hearts were opened, and they knew what had been important on the earth. Man, the flower of all flesh, the noblest of all creatures visible, man who had once made God in his image, and had mirrored his strength on the constellations, beautiful naked man was dying, strangled in the garments that he had woven. Century after century had he toiled, and here was his reward. Truly the garment had seemed heavenly at first, shot with colours of culture, sewn with the threads of self denial. And heavenly it had been so long as it was a garment and no more, man could shed it at will and live by the essence that is his soul, and the essence, equally divine, that is his body. The sin against the body — it was for that they wept in chief; the centuries of wrong against the muscles and the nerves, and those five portals by which we can alone apprehend — glozing it over with talk of evolution, until the body was white pap, the home of ideas as colourless, last sloshy stirrings of a spirit that had grasped the stars.
“Where are you?” she sobbed.
His voice in the darkness said, “Here.”
“Is there any hope, Kuno?”
“None for us.”
 
I drove a rental on vacation and it annoyed the shit out of me, while also making me appreciate my truck which

has regular fucking keys

Doesn't beep at me to annoy me into putting on a seat belt

Has mostly buttons instead of touch screens taking my eyes off the road.

____________________

Ideally my next truck is just another truck the same year or OLDER.

Most of the updates in the last 5-10 years suck.
 
Some countries have it in the small print in the electric car purchase paperwork that in the event of an emergency the government or military can commandeer your car or geofence you into a certain area. Picture Covid but your card money doesn't work 10 miles away your home (why cash is king), you're not allowed to take the train or the bus, your car literally won't drive you outside of your fence and will drive itself back to your fence if it detects it's not "supposed" to be there. The EU was tabling the idea of making it mandatory for all new cars to have cameras observing the inside of the car "for your security" by 2030 or something like that. The US too but I believe it was tabled for the moment. So now you've got AI facial recognition and microphones spying on all the conversations and comings and goings in your life.

Anyway the point is that they're stuffing the cars with tech because it gives them more surveillance and more control. Always more tech, never less. They're like the Cylons, they hate analog shit because they can't use it against you.
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Having finally taken the time to think this scenario through, after it bobbing to the surface of my consciousness from time to time for ages, it turns out there's a lot of think about. More than enough for a separate thread. I'll have to write a Post-Apocalyptic novel!

If all normal electrics were broken, where would some survive?

(I should say it's disputed whether all electrics would be permanently broken by carpet EMPing, although most (credible) opinion leans that way. You get some absolute imbecile opinions when you look things up on the internet these days, as everyone is using it loads. I found people saying diesel engines' spark plugs need batteries, which would be taken out by an EMP, for instance.)

down mines or similar
obviously some military stuff, which is shielded, or on a submarine. Although submarines can be attacked, including by nuclear torpedoes and depth charges.
inside bank vaults, or probably mega corporations have some shielded rooms
on ships far out at sea
perhaps in very remote areas on land (Arctic Siberia etc.), if there are no explosions close enough
maybe in the bunkers of preppers who have spent a lot of money on legit shielding

I remembered that the British Army had stayed with an old engine model for its Land Rovers, as it is more robust/simple/easy to maintain and repair in field conditions etc. I checked and indeed they are still using a 1994 model engine, which will work without electrics.

Land_Rover_Defender_Netherlands_Marine_Corps_-_Flickr_-_Joost_J._Bakker_IJmuiden.jpg


Tanks' armour gives them a good degree of protection from EMP, but it would be overpowered by a close- or powerful-enough blast. I think researchers are also developing EMP tank rounds and artillery shells.

I know Challenger 2 tanks, which is the current British Army tank, although they are about to be replaced, have manual backup systems so the gunner can aim and fire if the electric systems are broken. However the (diesel) engine won't work without electrics.

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I checked two other random Army vehicles to see if their engines would run without electrics, and they won't.

Mastiff Protected Patrol vehicle

armyhq-2017-017-op-shader-4-rifles-403-tj.jpg


Heavy Equipment Transporter (HETS)

het-story-1.jpg


We're not in the Cold War with the USSR any more, and the British Army isn't exactly the top dog it once was, but even the Army not having EMP-proof vehicles is rather dismaying.

I suppose if you had some electric items which worked, the thing to do would be to set up some kind of water mill which charged big batteries. You could run cables a limited distance from there (to light buildings for instance) and carry smaller batteries back and forth. You would run out of diesel for a generator sooner or later, even if you could maintain it to keep it working. You could charge batteries with windmills, or a horse walking on a treadmill, or a person pedalling an exercise bike lol, but clearly a water mill would be better.

Again though this technology would eventually fail because people wouldn't be able to maintain/repair it, and your survivors would just have to do without electricity. You would be glad to have the mill turn saw blades for your firewood though. Cutting and chopping wood by hand is laborious.

19768150_5371f62fb4_b.jpg


I also realised that once paraffin and the candles people found were used up, there would be a great demand for candlemaking. Food and firewood are obvious, but people would be going through loads of candles in the hours of darkness.

Jean_Baptiste_Santerre_-_Girl_with_a_Candle_late_17th_or_early_18th_century_-_%28MeisterDrucke-716644%29.jpg


Or when going into buildings with little or no natural light, in the daytime. I expect people could figure out how to make them again, from beeswax or animal fat, using cotton wicks. Mediaeval torches I think worked along the same principle, rushes drawing up animal fat. Again never depicted in any fiction I've come across. I suppose most readers/viewers would be bored by this kind of detail.
 
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