HW GOAT?

[HHJ]

He looked scared of Fedor from the beginning.

Thats how it goes bud. He should have been.

 

[Gosu]

DC of course. The most skillful and well-rounded HW

 

[kenetics]

Have you heard about this new kid on the block? DC? He can mix some strikes with some TDS. Lol

Fedor vs CroCop is one of the most overrated fights of all time. I’ve seen it multiple times and I still don’t get the hype. CroCop fought horribly. Only moving laterally to one side into Fedor’s power punches. No feints, no set ups, only naked strikes, mostly kicks against a grappler. Not a good gameplan. He was a complete novice on the ground as well. He looked scared of Fedor from the beginning.

Fedor through his signature wild looping punches. There was a million openings for counters which Mirko didn’t use. Someone like Adesanya would make him pay for shots like that.

And they weren’t even true HW’s. Just two LHW without a weight cut. Hell, they could’ve both probably make MW as well.

Oh ya . We still waiting for the new HW breeds right? I've been hearing that for years . All the HW now are from the past. Stipe and Francis beat alot of old HW that were fighting for an average of 12yrs.....

 

[kenetics]

Remember when he fought nog the third time. He would fly in with a overhand right,bodylock nog and throw him to the mat,then go for a flying stomp,get some gnp in,and then leap back out and then stand there,making Nog get up and do it to him all over again. At HW we have not seen ANYONE capable of this.

The closets was probably prime DC from strike force. I think DC physically was the best then not in the UFC.

 

[kenetics]

Stipe, Werdum, JDS, Cain and soon Ngannou. Stipe is clearly at the top.

I do not rank myths from the old era of one dimensional MMA, or fighters who are considered the greatest even though they never beat one great well rounded HW and started losing once they faced well rounded great fighters of the modern era.

Stipe fought aged HW during his run . I'm not blaming him and he did what he had to do but none of those guys besides a green Francis were ALL old and we're already fight 10 yrs + and had multiple losses.

 

[kenetics]

How about Curtis Blaydes and Rozenstruick? And he fought one of the best versions of Overeem. Everyone he beat were top contenders, except for Cain. Cain is the only win that really doesn’t do much to his legacy.

He didn’t beat Stipe in their 2nd fight because Stipe got old, but because how much Francis evolved. You must be blind not see that.

And your concept of prime is absolutely wrong as well. The idea that you are your absolutely best at the very beginning of your career and then it goes down hill from there is stupid. Why train at all? It’s impossible to improve, right?

Look at Blachowicz- 38 years old, 36 pro fights and 14 years as a pro. Best he’s ever been.

Charles Oliviera- 31 years old, 40 pro fights and 13 years as a pro. Best he’s ever been.

Glover- 41 years old, 39 pro fights, 19 years as a pro. Fights for the title next.

Lewis- 36 y.o., 33 pro fights, 11 years pro.
Best he’s ever been.

Masvidal- 36 y.o., 50 pro fights, 18 years pro. Just fought for the title.

Patricio Pitbull- 33 y.o., 36 pro fights, 17 years pro. Possibly the best FW in the world.

A could go on and on with examples like these. Those aren’t exceptions, those are the rule. Fighters aren’t in their best form at 25 with 10 pro fights and 4 years in the game as Sherdog wants to believe so badly. All that “9+ years as a pro”, “30+ pro fights” and “32 is past prime” bullshit that is floating around Sherdog is statistically wrong and just an excuse why Pride fighters flopped outside of Japan.

Umm overeem has been ko and subbed multiple times before Francis best him..

Blaydes got a glass chin....

Rozenstruick .... Come on..lol

 

[HaulParris]

Its between Fedor, Stipe and Werdum for me. Heavyweight is the hardest division to rate as far as GOATs go.

I agree

 

[morrisondafalln]

Dumbest post ever...


What about during the 10 years before this fight? Did Fedor do anything noteworthy?

Or was this his debut?


In other words, you are a donkey.

 

[Boomb]

Fedor, because his run in Pride was a thing of beauty. He didn't exploit his opponents weaknesses but he beat them at their strength.

 

[L0ki]

Werdum is awesome, tho I don't see him as a candidate.

And beating the GOAT doesn't make the GOAT. It's not a title. It's a composite of an over all legacy that needs to be about as perfect as it gets.

That said, Fabricio is definitely on the all time top 10 heavies.


Interesting to see Stipe listed so much.

Definitely an impressive resume that puts him in the all time, tho I don't think he has enough for the top spot.

It will be interesting to see how he bounces back from where he's currently at.

 

[tehMoose]

Fedor obviously, no one comes close

 

[GOATtalks]

Old isn't better than young, lol. There can be a time period with good older fighters. Like when the new gen doesn't produce the same talent it used to. Like in the HW and LHW divs in the last 10 years. Very few special new guys. That doesn't mean getting old means you're peaking. That's just stupid.

Experience is better than inexperience, more skill is better than less skill. It takes time for full MMArtist to develop as there is so many fields to cover. I wrote here on numerous occasions how fighters in their 30’s are way more successful than guys in their mid 20’s. I’ve always supported that by facts. Look at the champs now even:

Ngannou is 34
Jan 38
Izzy 31
Usman 34
Oliviera 31
Volkanovski 32
Aljo 31
Figgy 33

Not a single fighter in their 20’s is the champ right now.

 

[GOATtalks]

Thats how it goes bud. He should have been.

I like that you didn’t disagree, that it was a shitty performance from a technical stand point

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

On resume its Fedor. 30+ fights,a decade undefeated, consensus no1 HW for like 6-7 years, many peoples P4P no1 for years too, all as a small sub 6ft chubby HW.

In terms of ability though - if you had him run the gauntlet vs Cain, JDS, DC and Reem i'm not sure he wins more than he loses.

 

[HHJ]

I like that you didn’t disagree, that it was a shitty performance from a technical stand point

I just think he was just not prepared for Fedor to come at him with almost reckless abandon. Him being on the backfoot so much gassed him out. The fight was essentially over when they went to the ground. Fedor knew how to wear him out like Khabib wore Conor out. I also think he was nervous. Too worried about the takedown. But these are the things that make Fedor great. Just like Khabib is great. Fedor MADE Mirko not fight well because he took him out of his element.

Hell,another great like Anderson almost lost to similar tactics Chael used,but he managed to somehow persevere.

 

[GOATtalks]

Oh ya . We still waiting for the new HW breeds right? I've been hearing that for years . All the HW now are from the past. Stipe and Francis beat alot of old HW that were fighting for an average of 12yrs.....

No, they are not. You’re just proving how detached from the reality you really are.



Here’s the current top10. You see any old guys here?
And HW’s have gotten way bigger, more athletic and more athletic on average. Look at guys like Ngannou, Stipe, Blaydes, Gane, Volkov. All at least 6’4, 240-280 pounds lean ripped beast. They also are way more technical than people give them credit for. Gane is the most technical fighter I’ve ever seen at HW. His movement, footwork, feints, stance switches, the variety of punches, kicks, knees, elbows mixed in with slick submissions is something I’ve never seen before at HW.
Stipe and now also Ngannou are complete well rounded beasts. Blaydes is elite wrestler with solid striking. Volkov is super technical for a HW as well. Jairzinho is a world class kick-boxer.
You’re just throwing around baseless, false claims and that’s it.

 

[GOATtalks]

I just think he was just not prepared for Fedor to come at him with almost reckless abandon. Him being on the backfoot so much gassed him out. The fight was essentially over when they went to the ground. Fedor knew how to wear him out like Khabib wore Conor out. I also think he was nervous. Too worried about the takedown. But these are the things that make Fedor great. Just like Khabib is great. Fedor MADE Mirko not fight well because he took him out of his element.

Hell,another great like Anderson almost lost to similar tactics Chael used,but he managed to somehow persevere.

Sure, I agree completely with what you wrote. I don’t get why people call it the most technical HW fight of all time though.

 

[HHJ]

Sure, I agree completely with what you wrote. I don’t get why people call it the most technical HW fight of all time though.

Well thats not the particular phrase i would use but the standup portions were phenomenal to watch,even today. And if you were watching live back then,you couldnt even breathe. Once Mirko screwed up and slipped and fell into Fedor,and got taken down tho,that was the end for him. I think people are amazed at how fast they both are,especially Fedor. We dont see HW's move like that today.

 

[GOATtalks]

Umm overeem has been ko and subbed multiple times before Francis best him..

Blaydes got a glass chin....

Rozenstruick .... Come on..lol

Charles Oliviera has been submitted and KOed multiple times.
Dustin Poirier as well.
Jan Blachowicz also.
Robert Whittaker.
Gaethje.
Even Jiri Prochazka.

Does it mean they all suck now? Lol

Blaydes have only lost to 2 men, who have 23 TKO/KO UFC wins combined. Lewis holds UFC KO record and Ngannou has a 100% finishing rate. Blaydes doesn’t have a glass chin. He holds wins over Volkov, JDS, Overeem, Hunt, Oleinik and he’s an elite HW. Nice try sucker!

Jairzinho has 76-8-1 (64 KO) record in kick boxing and held numerous world titles. He beat JDS, Overeem and Arlovski . He’s only lost to Ngannou and Gane. He’s one of the best strikers to ever compete at HW.

You’re super biased in your approach and it shows.

 

[GOATtalks]

Well thats not the particular phrase i would use but the standup portions were phenomenal to watch,even today. And if you were watching live back then,you couldnt even breathe. Once Mirko screwed up and slipped and fell into Fedor,and got taken down tho,that was the end for him. I think people are amazed at how fast they both are,especially Fedor. We dont see HW's move like that today.

First of all they weren’t truly HWs.

6’2 225lbs CroCop and 6’ 230lbs chubby Fedor, were 2 LHW without a weight cut. We have had MW’s bigger than that. That’s way they seemed fast.

Secondly, Gane moves better than both of them and he’s a 6’4 245lbs shredded true HW