HW GOAT?

[ArchGoat]

werdum for me lol. he tapped out one of the nogs, submitted fedor, submitted cain, gg.

Don't forget that he also has the best Trollface

 

[GOATtalks]

Fedor’s win streak and longevity is impossible to compare to modern days, because he fought in completely different format. Ngannou is KOing top10 guys in seconds, of course he could mix in some Zulu’s or Japanese cans and fight like 6 times per year and beat all records. Also looking at Fedor’s wins and dismissing his loses is disingenuous. And I’m not even talking about his late career loses, but his SF run is definitely part of his legacy. If Francis beats Lewis, Jones, Gane and one more after that, he’s the GOAT and no one else will even come close

 

[Deleted member 504083]

If Francis beats Lewis, Jones, Gane and one more after that, he’s the GOAT and no one else will even come close

The only time Ngannou fought a legit top fighter who was still in his prime:

werdum for me lol. he tapped out one of the nogs, submitted fedor, submitted cain, gg.

Because all those guys were still in their prime....

 

[cheesus]

It's Fedor, let's move on.

 

[bartleby929]

The only time Ngannou fought a legit top fighter who was still in his prime:

Because all those guys were still in their prime....

werdum was as much in his prime as those guys when he fought them

 

[Post 2 Decision]

Fedor
Stipe
Werdum
Big Nog

 

[GOATtalks]

The only time Ngannou fought a legit top fighter who was still in his prime:

Because all those guys were still in their prime....

How about Curtis Blaydes and Rozenstruick? And he fought one of the best versions of Overeem. Everyone he beat were top contenders, except for Cain. Cain is the only win that really doesn’t do much to his legacy.

He didn’t beat Stipe in their 2nd fight because Stipe got old, but because how much Francis evolved. You must be blind not see that.

And your concept of prime is absolutely wrong as well. The idea that you are your absolutely best at the very beginning of your career and then it goes down hill from there is stupid. Why train at all? It’s impossible to improve, right?

Look at Blachowicz- 38 years old, 36 pro fights and 14 years as a pro. Best he’s ever been.

Charles Oliviera- 31 years old, 40 pro fights and 13 years as a pro. Best he’s ever been.

Glover- 41 years old, 39 pro fights, 19 years as a pro. Fights for the title next.

Lewis- 36 y.o., 33 pro fights, 11 years pro.
Best he’s ever been.

Masvidal- 36 y.o., 50 pro fights, 18 years pro. Just fought for the title.

Patricio Pitbull- 33 y.o., 36 pro fights, 17 years pro. Possibly the best FW in the world.

A could go on and on with examples like these. Those aren’t exceptions, those are the rule. Fighters aren’t in their best form at 25 with 10 pro fights and 4 years in the game as Sherdog wants to believe so badly. All that “9+ years as a pro”, “30+ pro fights” and “32 is past prime” bullshit that is floating around Sherdog is statistically wrong and just an excuse why Pride fighters flopped outside of Japan.

 

[1pedestrian]

It’s still Fedor.

 

[MCS]

Fedor beat his rivals when he was young and they were young, too. It's not Stipe's fault he got the aging HW div, but that is the reality. He beat near 40-year-olds. Nog and Werdum beat top HW's closer to their prime as well. But Stipe's record is still impressive as a whole, so he's top 5 by default.

 

[kenetics]

Just to get an idea of what the modern consensus looks like.

Exactly like it sounds: your HW GOAT pick.

I still have it as Fedor. He's still pretty clearly on that throne.

Dunno who is in contention, though I definitely like Ngannou. Exciting as all Hel and well spoken. Although, he still has some tests ahead of him.

I think if Francis faces some deep waters competition and absolute wars, like Shodo did against Cro Cop, Nog and Fujita, then it will definitely be telling.

On the flip side, Francis might get it just by Hulk smash tactics, though one would think the strategy won't work too long.

You already mentioning Francis lol. Dude got beat by someone like lewis who is probably the least skilled HW. DC rolled lewis up with a bad back easily too .

If lewis beat Francis again... It's going to be real bad for Francis.

I still need to see Francis ground game and his striking defence improve. He tends to swing real wild and leave himself open to get ko himself.

 

[kenetics]

Fedor beat his rivals when he was young and they were young, too. It's not Stipe's fault he got the aging HW div, but that is the reality. He beat near 40-year-olds. Nog and Werdum beat top HW's closer to their prime as well. But Stipe's record is still impressive as a whole, so he's top 5 by default.

This. People seem to miss that context.

 

[GOATtalks]

Fedor beat his rivals when he was young and they were young, too. It's not Stipe's fault he got the aging HW div, but that is the reality. He beat near 40-year-olds. Nog and Werdum beat top HW's closer to their prime as well. But Stipe's record is still impressive as a whole, so he's top 5 by default.

Stop this false narrative. Read my post above.

Fighters can be at their best in mid 30’s and most of them still are.

Stipe beat the best fighters and he did it because he was better than them

 

[GOATtalks]

You already mentioning Francis lol. Dude got beat by someone like lewis who is probably the least skilled HW. DC rolled lewis up with a bad back easily too .

If lewis beat Francis again... It's going to be real bad for Francis.

I still need to see Francis ground game and his striking defence improve. He tends to swing real wild and leave himself open to get ko himself.

You mean unlike the technically sound, defensively responsible Fedor? Lol

 

[HHJ]

Fedor beat his rivals when he was young and they were young, too. It's not Stipe's fault he got the aging HW div, but that is the reality. He beat near 40-year-olds. Nog and Werdum beat top HW's closer to their prime as well. But Stipe's record is still impressive as a whole, so he's top 5 by default.

This.

Stipe happened to come along when there was little glory to be had. There is nothing he could do about that.

 

[kenetics]

You mean unlike the technically sound, defensively responsible Fedor? Lol

Prime Fedor could blend fast striking with takedowns seemingly. Until this day we haven't seen a HW do that.

Fedor stand up against prime cro cop was technical as hell and his ground game was decent.


You're not really going to compare prime Francis skills to some one like prime fedor my guy.

Again lewis should've of never beat Francis if he was that good. If he losses again to lewis, Francis immediately out of any conversation just like that .

 

[3rdAccount]

Just to get an idea of what the modern consensus looks like.

Exactly like it sounds: your HW GOAT pick.

I still have it as Fedor. He's still pretty clearly on that throne.

Dunno who is in contention, though I definitely like Ngannou. Exciting as all Hel and well spoken. Although, he still has some tests ahead of him.

I think if Francis faces some deep waters competition and absolute wars, like Shodo did against Cro Cop, Nog and Fujita, then it will definitely be telling.

On the flip side, Francis might get it just by Hulk smash tactics, though one would think the strategy won't work too long.

I have Stipe and Fedor at the top.

 

[HHJ]

Prime Fedor could blend fast striking with takedowns seemingly. Until this day we haven't seen a HW do that.

Fedor stand up against prime cro cop was technical as hell and his ground game was decent.


You're not really going to compare prime Francis skills to some one like prime fedor my guy.

Again lewis should've of never beat Francis if he was that good. If he losses again to lewis, Francis immediately out of any conversation just like that .

Remember when he fought nog the third time. He would fly in with a overhand right,bodylock nog and throw him to the mat,then go for a flying stomp,get some gnp in,and then leap back out and then stand there,making Nog get up and do it to him all over again. At HW we have not seen ANYONE capable of this.

 

[MCS]

Stop this false narrative. Read my post above.

Fighters can be at their best in mid 30’s and most of them still are.

Stipe beat the best fighters and he did it because he was better than them

Old isn't better than young, lol. There can be a time period with good older fighters. Like when the new gen doesn't produce the same talent it used to. Like in the HW and LHW divs in the last 10 years. Very few special new guys. That doesn't mean getting old means you're peaking. That's just stupid.

 

[GOATtalks]

Prime Fedor could blend fast striking with takedowns seemingly. Until this day we haven't seen a HW do that.

Fedor stand up against prime cro cop was technical as hell and his ground game was decent.


You're not really going to compare prime Francis skills to some one like prime fedor my guy.

Again lewis should've of never beat Francis if he was that good. If he losses again to lewis, Francis immediately out of any conversation just like that .

Have you heard about this new kid on the block? DC? He can mix some strikes with some TDS. Lol

Fedor vs CroCop is one of the most overrated fights of all time. I’ve seen it multiple times and I still don’t get the hype. CroCop fought horribly. Only moving laterally to one side into Fedor’s power punches. No feints, no set ups, only naked strikes, mostly kicks against a grappler. Not a good gameplan. He was a complete novice on the ground as well. He looked scared of Fedor from the beginning.

Fedor through his signature wild looping punches. There was a million openings for counters which Mirko didn’t use. Someone like Adesanya would make him pay for shots like that.

And they weren’t even true HW’s. Just two LHW without a weight cut. Hell, they could’ve both probably make MW as well.

 

[TheBulge]

Stipe, Werdum, JDS, Cain and soon Ngannou. Stipe is clearly at the top.

I do not rank myths from the old era of one dimensional MMA, or fighters who are considered the greatest even though they never beat one great well rounded HW and started losing once they faced well rounded great fighters of the modern era.