Huge, ripped muscles = cannot be gained naturally

[bhp02]

If you look at all the natural guys training mma they are all lean and cut. You would have to lift super heavy and eat a hell of a lot to keep size on ya

natural = passing the tests

 

[Sjb1888]

Its been confirmed that in the case of Cung Le, it was assumed by some due to the workout pump and lighting, that Cung was juicing, but it was not proven.

Cung is still waiting for an apology from the UFC

Spoiler

All natty bro

Hw was juicing, stop being so naive.

 

[thetan]

At HW, a body like Stipe and/or Arlovski (his body today, not 10 years ago) are probably the most realistic body types men of that size can gain naturally... I'm not saying they are natty, but those body types definitely are.

Brock, Ubereem, Kongo, etc. Just cannot be attained naturally in a sport like MMA, let alone just walking around. With the amount of conditioning MMA fighters do, it's just not possible to stay that size.

Body types like Bisping, Mousasi, Weidman, MacDonald, Wonderboy, Magny, IMO are pretty much what the human body SHOULD look like at their natural physical peak.

 

[Pankratios]

It's possible but very difficult and you have to have more than just good genetics.

 

[Namek]

He tested positive for abnormally elevated level of HGH.

How can a 42-year-old get elevated level of HGH without taking synthetic growth hormone?

Did he just have a second puberty in his fourties?

Why does Overeem's head look real on his body?

There is a saying that an idiot is born everyday. You're a living proof that this saying has a lot of truth to it.
There are people who are ignorant because of lack of education and opportunity for learning. It's not their fault.

You, on the other hand, are willfully ignorant by choice.
You don't want to see the truth.

You obviously can't read. I posted evidence that he never tested for elevated HGH levels, that in fact his levels were LOW. But the lab didn't know how to test and didn't understand how to read the tests. This is fact. It was validated as such by the biggest expert on PED use in the world. It was no technicality, the lab didn't know what it was doing and posted false results. You going on and on about how he tested positive proves that you have an agenda and don't want to look at the facts.

I don't know if Cung Le ever used anything but HE DID NOT TEST POSITIVE FOR HGH ON THAT TEST. Which is why they rescinded the suspension. I wrote it in all caps in an effort to help you understand.

An idiot is someone who can't grasp simple logic and lacks comprehension skills. Since I posted facts and you still go on and on stating things that are inaccurate proves you either cannot read or cannot understand what is said. So you draw your own conclusion from that... if you can.

 

[MMAart]

You obviously can't read. I posted evidence that he never tested for elevated HGH levels, that in fact his levels were LOW. But the lab didn't know how to test and didn't understand how to read the tests. This is fact. It was validated as such by the biggest expert on PED use in the world. It was no technicality, the lab didn't know what it was doing and posted false results. You going on and on about how he tested positive proves that you have an agenda and don't want to look at the facts.

I don't know if Cung Le ever used anything but HE DID NOT TEST POSITIVE FOR HGH ON THAT TEST. Which is why they rescinded the suspension. I wrote it in all caps in an effort to help you understand.

An idiot is someone who can't grasp simple logic and lacks comprehension skills. Since I posted facts and you still go on and on stating things that are inaccurate proves you either cannot read or cannot understand what is said. So you draw your own conclusion from that... if you can.

Read the article you post, specifically this paragraph:

"Instead, the Hong Kong lab took a reading of Le's total hGH concentration, which by itself cannot determine if the subject has used exogenous hGH or not"​

In plain English, this means:

1. Le's total HGH concentration was abnormally high.

2. But because HGH is NATURALLY produced in the human body, this test cannot say whether the HGH was injected (exogenous) or not... even though it defies human physiology that a 40-year old male can produce abnormally high level of HGH.

They needed ANOTHER test (isoform test) to technically determine whether the HGH was injected or natural.

The Hong Kong lab was incompetent and didn't perform this test.
Therefore, Cung Le got off on a technicality!

Does this make any sense to you?

This is like O.J. Simpson DNA was found at the murder scene, but because of some technicality with the tests being performed, the court had to dismiss the evidence on a technicality basis...

 

[Namek]

Read the article you post, specifically this paragraph:

"Instead, the Hong Kong lab took a reading of Le's total hGH concentration, which by itself cannot determine if the subject has used exogenous hGH or not"​

In plain English, this means:

1. Le's total HGH concentration was abnormally high.

2. But because HGH is NATURALLY produced in the human body, this test cannot say whether the HGH was injected (exogenous) or not... even though it defies human physiology that a 40-year old male can produce abnormally high level of HGH.

You don't understand. HIS LEVELS WEREN'T HIGH! These people didn't understand how the levels are read and neither do you.

There are two ranges. Your HGH levels vary. A rested HGH Level is around 5 and post-workout level is around 30.

His levels were below 20 ng/mL. The normal levels for someone post-exercise are up to 30 ng/mL. Cung Le was actually lower than normal for someone just involved in a fight. He was tested right after the fight.

Your normal HGH levels if you are watching TV are 5 ng/mL. These people compared his 20 ng/mL to what is normal for a person not involved in physical activity and they concluded that he was high. Which is WRONG!

His levels were high for someone who has been resting for 12 hours and not some who just worked out. They didn't understand how HGH level were measured. There was no technicality here. They didn't do that right tests. They didn't understand how to read the levels they got back from the test they did. His levels for someone post psychical activity were actually LOW.

So, Cung Le never tested positive for anything. They said he tested positive and that his levels were high because they didn't understand how to read the damn results and by your posts neither do you.

"That's the big issue for Cung, they saw his level so high and they figured, ‘well he must be on something.' But the problem is that the laboratory, I could pretty much guarantee you, their level that they listed as being the normal range is what's called a rested HGH level. What that is, you fast, you come in first thing in the morning, you lay down on a gurney, they make sure that your heart rate is at a normal rate, and then they draw your blood. You don't do it after somebody's just warmed up for an hour and then fought for 20 minutes."

 

[riddleofsteel]

You asked, "To the thread, how much are these guys that 6'4"-6'8"+, with a big frame supposed to weigh if they are lean?"

So I posted the picture of Overeem, who is 6'4, for you to estimate his weight when he was younger and probably wasn't taking anything at that point.

Overeem was in the 220-225lb range when he wasn't dehydrating. So, how much mass could he have put on if he followed a weight lifting program without peds? Are you saying a 6'4", 225lb guy couldn't put on muscle without PEDs?
Also, funny you pick a guy that was making a massive weight cut while fighting in an organization rampant in drug use.

Lennox Lewis is 6'5", he was weighing in the 240-250 range, wasn't a weight lifter beyond light weight circuit work. If instead of boxing, he was a football or rugby player and lifted as one, he couldn't put on more muscle mass without PEDs? Or is your position he was already on them?
Akinwande, 6'7" weighed in the 230lbs, didn't lift. So, he was already at this weight max even though he didn't lift? Couldn't put on anymore mass? Or is he another boxer on PEDs already.

 

[riddleofsteel]

200lbs with 15-20% bodyfat is normal.
200lbs with 10% or less is not.

Even then, athletes with 15% or more bodyfat are not necessarily natural. Some people carry more fat, even if they take anabolic hormones.

FYI: Anabolic hormones usage are more prevalent than most people realize. Firefighters, police officers, paramedics, etc., who look jacked up... they're all on anabolics. I used to visit bodybuilding forums a lot, and I have seen plenty of firefighters who went on to ask for help with their cycles.

Even male dancer / ballet dancers take anabolic hormones to improve performance, look better, and heal injuries from training. And yes, I have seen them asked for cycle advice on bodybuild forums.

What about male fitness models, you might ask?

Answer:

Wait, so a guy, regardless of height be he 5'10", 6', 6'3" or 6'6", he can't weigh more than 200lb and be lean without PED usage? Or at a little higher bodyfat, 215lb or so?

No shit, PED usage is common. Who is stating it isn't? The point was in regards to every athlete or nearly every athlete being on them, as many on this forum believe.

Surfing a forum for steroid advice doesn't automatically equate to a few million people in the same professions are also using.

Were all 50 or whatever were on your high school varsity football team juicing? All varsity wrestlers? JVers? Freshmen teams?

 

[Noah]

lol what the fuck

Lol hes definitely been on some shit, how old is he in the picture?

 

[aus101]

They were also 5'4

Modern humans are all cans compared to our caveman ancestors. Hunter gatherers were 6'+ and 185 pounds ripped, each with skulls that make Hendo look like Goulet. They were such beasts Victorians thought they were a different species, calling them "Cro magnon man". Turns out that it was just our caveman ancestors.

(Also aboriginal Australian footprints have been found where a guy was running in an arc carrying a spear in mud only a few miles per hour slower than bolts Olympic record. Whoever left the footprints 50,000+ years ago would leave our fastest man ever in the dust. Just insane. Question is, was he the hunter, or the hunted?).

 

[xupacabra]

just synthol bro, let it be

 

[Bob Gray]

Yes, you can and people that think you can't are ignorant.

PEDS make it easier to attain, even though it's not like they're magical muscle pills or something.

 

[MMAart]

Overeem was in the 220-225lb range when he wasn't dehydrating. So, how much mass could he have put on if he followed a weight lifting program without peds? Are you saying a 6'4", 225lb guy couldn't put on muscle without PEDs?
Also, funny you pick a guy that was making a massive weight cut while fighting in an organization rampant in drug use.

Lennox Lewis is 6'5", he was weighing in the 240-250 range, wasn't a weight lifter beyond light weight circuit work. If instead of boxing, he was a football or rugby player and lifted as one, he couldn't put on more muscle mass without PEDs? Or is your position he was already on them?
Akinwande, 6'7" weighed in the 230lbs, didn't lift. So, he was already at this weight max even though he didn't lift? Couldn't put on anymore mass? Or is he another boxer on PEDs already.

Lennox Lewis was a world class athlete, top of the food chain boxer in his prime.

With all the history of doping at the highest level in every single pro sports, (e.g. Armstrong, Marion Jones, Barry Bonds, McGuire, Maria Sharapova, etc.), do you honestly believe Lewis was not taking any PEDs?

 

[A Very Serious Cat]

A good rule of thumb is you can be big, you can be ripped but being both raises all sorts of questions.

 

[panzer723]

Is possible to attain an Overeem body without steroid?

 

[John Wick]

1947. No supplements.


If any of you think you need supplements and drugs to gain muscles then your a moron. It fucking HELPS but it's not REQUIRED. People have been putting on muscles the old fashion way natty for a long ass time.

 

[delrey1]

Steroids are being used before WW2. Germans inventad that shit

 

[dontlaugh]

Possible, but not for MMA fighters. There are bodybuilders that don't juice, they take waaaaaaay longer to achieve certain results that MMA fighters get in no time and LOSE in no time, which is weird.

These fast body changes make me believe nobody in MMA is clean. At one point even Nick and Nate had ripped bodies.

 

[countswagula]

There's a threshold, and it's pretty easy to see where it is with a little bit of common sense. But since saying it would be a pretty serious accusation, most people don't say what they already know unless there's tangible evidence to back it up.