However you feel about it, UFC is redefining itself as a stylized MA org.

[nyduccie]

You are right... But Palhares has nothing to do with that.

 

[MrKilroyT]

Its unfortunate.

If you chose to selectively engineer a Martial art based on fighting pretty, shit talking and twitter popularity, - by buying 50 plus elite to rookie fighters in each division and then selectively firing talent that doesnt hit those demographics, regardless of talent and accomplishment, others will call you out on it.

This post doesn't address anything I said in the post you quoted. It makes zero sense in the context of what I said.

To address your post:
I would even argue that Palhares DOES "fight pretty" (at least DURING the fight). He goes all out for a finish and if he doesn't get often gets finished himself. That is EXACTLY the type of fighter you keep claiming the UFC favors. So in essence you are arguing against yourself. Unfortunately for Palhares in addition to "fighting pretty" he also fights dirty.

You are basically trying to shoehorn Palhares into your Okami obsession from last week. It just doesn't fit tho.

 

[ronesjones]

Has the UFC cut anyone that could be a future champ? Answer: No

The UFC is still the best MMA org, with the most skillful guys in the world.

Ethan do you have a job other than crying about every move the UFC makes?

 

[PrinceOfPain]

I am actually going out tonight, so i cant do all of this point tennis right now.

McKee, Volkmann, Fitch and Okami were all fired on one loss.

Diaz hadnt earned the GSP fight. He also punched GSP after the bell repeatedly.

The Sonnen v Jones fight happened for a reason, and i doubt it was some call out bs. Tell me the whole story again, starting with Jones being attacked for observing professional standards with regard to late replacements. Signing Justin Beiber for the womens division would bring attention to the game too. But tell me, who is really seeking attention now. Sports have legacy because they have lineage and pedigree. UFC is vandalizing its own claim to these things.

You brought up Okami, but the guy was ranked 6th. Its a stupid cut in the context of any competitive sport. He was a competitor, not a team member. So dont come back with that retort.

Fanbase is obviously important. Im not too sure why results are custimarily disregarded either. Davis beats machida, and is behind Gus and Glover, who have zero wins over the current top 10...

The guy on the bottom is worse than the guy on the top.

Why are these guys still here?

Let the baying crowd take this one.

Theres plenty of opinion on both sides to go around.

McKee, Volkmann, Fitch and Okami were not fired just because of one loss.
I covered the Diaz/GSP fight in my post, you just don't know the sport, or don't pay attention.
Bringing up Justin Bieber is off topic .
Making an extreme (-ly stupid) example of something I said doesn't make your original point any less dim.
Cutting the 6th ranked guy is not stupid when he has little-to-nothing left to offer the organisation from a sporting or business perspective. Keeping him on the payroll is.
I had no intention of making a "team member" retort; don't be stupid.
Glad you're aware that fanbases matter. You argue as though you're ignorant of this fact.
Davis also has far worse recent showings than Glover or Gus. Context, child.
Why is the guy on the bottom worse than the guy on the top?
The "baying crowd" (ie, everyone who points out the flaws in your logic) always take this one, and any other one you bring up.
Plenty of opinions, yes. And like most of them, yours is uneducated and ill-considered.

Some have paid to be heard, and others are just saying what they see.

And then there's you, who sees nothing, but desperately wants to express an opinion anyway.


But sure, cheers buddy.
Bail like you always do after stirring the shit. I'll see you around.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

This post doesn't address anything I said in the post you quoted. It makes zero sense in the context of what I said.

To address your post:
I would even argue that Palhares DOES "fight pretty" (at least DURING the fight). He goes all out for a finish and if he doesn't get often gets finished himself. That is EXACTLY the type of fighter you keep claiming the UFC favors. So in essence you are arguing against yourself. Unfortunately for Palhares in addition to "fighting pretty" he also fights dirty.

You are basically trying to shoehorn Palhares into your Okami obsession from last week. It just doesn't fit tho.

ethanfranklin doesn't address facts... They cramp his style.

 

[_Keyser_Soze_]

Paul Harris wasn't banned for using a leg lock and you know it. Also you said "presumably." What the UFC is turning into is a profit monger. If you don't make them money they will cut you.

A business that has a goal to turn a fucking profit? Yikes. That's new.

The UFC isn't a charity, nor is their goal to bring mixed martial arts to the masses, no matter what Dana and the Fertittas would have you believe. If you were a lawyer in a big firm, and you weren't hitting your billing targets, you'd be gone. So yeah, it sucks for those like Palhares, but welcome to the real world.

And for the record, the fact that Palhares has failed a drug test (which happens to a lot of fighters) and more importantly held TWO submissions for too long after his opponent tapped - is a LARGE part of the reason that he is gone. You can't have casual fans turned away because some fighter doesn't obey the rules, and may end up seriously injuring someone...

 

[broncoboxer2]

And then there's you, who sees nothing, but desperately wants to express an opinion anyway.


But sure, cheers buddy.
Bail like you always do after stirring the shit. I'll see you around.

Well played, sir. Well played.

 

[MrKilroyT]

ethanfranklin doesn't address facts... They cramp his style.

To be fair, it can be quite difficult to make asinine assertions when focused on facts.

 

[ethanfranklin]

You are basically trying to shoehorn Palhares into your Okami obsession from last week. It just doesn't fit tho.

A legit org would suspend him pending an appeal.

Now we are missing one of the premier exponents of that game.

Another marker has been left.

ethanfranklin doesn't address facts... They cramp his style.

On a friday night, i dont stay inside to address facts on sherdog.

Trying to make capital out of me going out on a friday night, after your little shill friend tried to admonish me for posting in my own thread.

Well played, sir. Well played.

Eww.

I was being kind of friendly, and i come back to trolls mating and hating.

Friend or foe, enjoy your night.

Lets hope they dont reproduce.

 

[ethanfranklin]

Has the UFC cut anyone that could be a future champ? Answer: No

The UFC is still the best MMA org, with the most skillful guys in the world.

Ethan do you have a job other than crying about every move the UFC makes?

The whole division is related purely to the champ?

Ok so when the champ loses, now its directly related to another champ, so we change the whole division into "the worst possible style match ups for the new guy?"

It doesnt work that way. Its a de facto league, whether you like it or not.

Its not "a queue to fight the champ".

Some of these guys were very elite, and therefore a lot closer to being champ than the 70 people that didnt get cut, including the handful of people they beat.

A load of people who got destroyed by fired people are still employed.

 

[tenniswhiz]

I wish people would consider each thing on a case by case basis.

Each of OP's points are debatable, and overall, don't have anything to do with each other.

I disagreed with the Okami cut, and less so with the Fitch cut.

Going to war the dominant wrestling?
As a longtime MMA fan, I don't understand the "noobs" referring to this as a sport. There was another sport before this sport. And now MMA has evolved into yet another sport.
Ever since Kevin Randleman became the HW champ by laying on top of Pedro Rizzo and Pete Williams, this hasn't been what most fans want to see.
And now with the random/surprise TD's and various other 10-9 techniques, it has evolved even more into something that's less and less of a fight.
IMO, the downside of it (as a BJJ guy) is that using BJJ has become less and less of an option. There is no point in playing guard, even if you have the other guy on the defensive, because anything short of submitting him = losing the round. Passing guard and getting positions is risky because the guy might escape and get back up, as well as the fact that the judges don't care at all if you do pass guard. Even sweeps don't seem to be strongly considered; the initial TD is scored far more heavily.
Basically, guys with excellent BJJ only use it to get back up after a TD, with very few exceptions.

There is also this new trend of counting strikes and evaluating some as "significant" strikes. I've seen that many of these "significant" strikes aren't significant at all.
Whereas, rocking someone and almost finishing them is truly significant.... example: in the first title fight (2nd fight) between Gray Maynard and Frankie Edgar, how many significant strikes did each throw? I'll tell you: Gray threw about 12 significant strikes and Frankie threw about Zero. Fightmetric and Compustrike coming up with numbers different from that is a joke to me.

 

[MrKilroyT]

A legit org would suspend him pending an appeal.

Now we are missing one of the premier exponents of that game.

Another marker has been left.



Eww.

Again you fail to take into account his past. He has done this 4 times in Mma bouts (2 in the UFC). He has recently failed a drug test and was coming off 2 losses. He was on the thinnest of ice before this fight. Had he lost, he likely would've been cut. Had he failed a drug test, he likely would have been cut. Had he done exactly what he DID do, well we know how that turned out.

Like I said, this cut had nothing to do with his style, unless you consider fighting dirty a style. So trying to equate this to Okami, Fitch, etc. is just silly.

 

[ethanfranklin]

McKee, Volkmann, Fitch and Okami were not fired just because of one loss.
I covered the Diaz/GSP fight in my post, you just don't know the sport, or don't pay attention.
Bringing up Justin Bieber is off topic .
Making an extreme (-ly stupid) example of something I said doesn't make your original point any less dim.
Cutting the 6th ranked guy is not stupid when he has little-to-nothing left to offer the organisation from a sporting or business perspective. Keeping him on the payroll is.
I had no intention of making a "team member" retort; don't be stupid.
Glad you're aware that fanbases matter. You argue as though you're ignorant of this fact.
Davis also has far worse recent showings than Glover or Gus. Context, child.
Why is the guy on the bottom worse than the guy on the top?
The "baying crowd" (ie, everyone who points out the flaws in your logic) always take this one, and any other one you bring up.
Plenty of opinions, yes. And like most of them, yours is uneducated and ill-considered.

They were fired on one loss. This is cruel and unusual punishment because the UFC was targeting their style.

Ive been watching the sport, since before it was a sport. I get the feeling you are a Lesnar boy that came here from wrestling. And im being generous there.

Beiber is an example of how ridiculous your assertion is. Freak matches make money, and so does professional wrestling. The product is sport, or GTFO, basically.

And now youre calling me stupid, because your mask is slipping, and your pathetic little paid to post non understanding of the sport is leaking like pee, all over your E trousers.

Cutting a 6th ranked guy is stupid. 81% of sherdog told you that one. Real sports are laughing at your shitty little circus.

Fanbases matter, so go out and market your product, instead of telling fighters how they should fight and telling them to market themselves. How desparate it is, and how embarrassing, - a sport destroying itself to whore for fans.

Lets judge them on trash talk and twitter followers. What a ridiculous idiot you are child. If you were a bit older and less "jersey shore", you would know that fad sports do exactly what UFC is doing right now.

Davis is ranked higher independently and has beaten better people.

Davis just beat machida, while glover labored to beat bader.

You are so completely bereft of any nous of understanding, im beginning to thiink you are going off a rebuttal script. Do you think its easier to beat Machida, than bader?

Will you cry about judges getting in the way of the product? You disgust me.

The guy on the bottom is worse than the guy on the top, because there already exists a stalling rule, so he is usually getting his ass kicked.

You are crying like a pathetic little half man, because i spit facts and trends that are consistent and evidenced.

Your narratives and lies, are like fairy stories to anyone over the age of 10.

I see the trend and you cry about me showing people.

You are pathetic.

Ive been watching the game since before there was an MMA.

Your white washing job, cuts no mustard with me son.

And then there's you, who sees nothing, but desperately wants to express an opinion anyway.

I see just fine.

I also see the shill in you from a mile away.

Ive seen this "sport" turn to a joke, and incrementally embarrass itself.

But sure, cheers buddy.
Bail like you always do after stirring the shit. I'll see you around.

Im getting shit for posting in my own thread one minute.

The next you are crying like a b--- because im going out on a friday night.

Pathetic.

Why on earth would you stay in to post on sherdog anyways?

I dont owe you anything.

What do you think this is, wheel chair olympics?

Again you fail to take into account his past. He has done this 4 times in Mma bouts (2 in the UFC). He has recently failed a drug test and was coming off 2 losses. He was on the thinnest of ice before this fight. Had he lost, he likely would've been cut. Had he failed a drug test, he likely would have been cut. Had he done exactly what he DID do, well we know how that turned out.

Like I said, this cut had nothing to do with his style, unless you consider fighting dirty a style. So trying to equate this to Okami, Fitch, etc. is just silly.

Damn man. Were you waiting all friday night/saturday morning for me to reply?

When you get 30 second reponses, it does feel a bit shill like.

Do you guys have a buzzer or something?

He deserves the chance to appeal, before sentence. UFC would be following best practice to allow that.

 

[MrKilroyT]

Damn man. Were you waiting all friday night/saturday morning for me to reply?

When you get 30 second reponses, it does feel a bit shill like.

Do you guys have a buzzer or something?

He deserves the chance to appeal, before sentence. UFC would be following best practice to allow that.

Kids woke me up early. No Premier League today, so I'm bored waiting for football.

Anyway, why would they wait for an appeal of sentence that was far too lenient to begin with? Granted they didn't even wait for the sentence but given it was the Brazilian commission, we all knew the sentence would not be too harsh.

 

[Benoitthegr8]

Surprisingly this is one of the better threads I've seen here in a while, quite a few well thought out points have been made.

While I don't condone point fighting or in a more technical sense, guys who attempt to neutralize the opponent and only make an offensive effort enough to not get stood up. The reality is there are guys who have a skill set (mostly wrestlers) that does not allow them to do much more than stated earlier. They are what they are, and in a sense will get axed if they do not broaden they're MMA skillset.

What I really really dislike are the guys who have the skill set to finish fights, however refuse to become more aggressive due to the unwillingness to engage or not chance submissions because of the fear of losing dominant position.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

Damn man. Were you waiting all friday night/saturday morning for me to reply?

When you get 30 second reponses, it does feel a bit shill like.

Do you guys have a buzzer or something?

off topic

On a friday night, i dont stay inside to address facts on sherdog.

Trying to make capital out of me going out on a friday night, after your little shill friend tried to admonish me for posting in my own thread.



Eww.

I was being kind of friendly, and i come back to trolls mating and hating.




Lets hope they dont reproduce.

off topic


Come on, man.
Try harder, and stick to the topic at hand.

If you can't justify your original point, it's time to just let this thread die, and start a new one tomorrow.
That's been your trend hasn't it?

 

[ethanfranklin]

off topic



off topic


Come on, man.
Try harder, and stick to the topic at hand.

If you can't justify your original point, it's time to just let this thread die, and start a new one tomorrow.
That's been your trend hasn't it?

LOL, you are jumping up on a Saturday morning to make 10 minute later responses, after waiting up for me all night.

I wont be taking any "life advice" from you, you sad little man.

The original point has more than been justified, hence the interest you have shilling the thread.

Kids woke me up early. No Premier League today, so I'm bored waiting for football.

Anyway, why would they wait for an appeal of sentence that was far too lenient to begin with? Granted they didn't even wait for the sentence but given it was the Brazilian commission, we all knew the sentence would not be too harsh.

They are attacking him on a reputation level. They could have at least given him the chance to appeal. It would have mattered little, and frankly if the brazilian commish is so bad, then thats just more crap against the sport.

Dana goes to brazil with trt using guys quite often, that cant get exemption in America. Guess thats all part of the sport though.

Suspend him. Let him appeal. Ban him.

Due process is good practice.

 

[ethanfranklin]

Surprisingly this is one of the better threads I've seen here in a while, quite a few well thought out points have been made.

Hence the fact its infested with shills. :icon_lol:

Some of these responses seem to be from a weird bizzaroo world where UFC is the worlds biggest sports org, and Dana is some kind of North Korean style super leader, who never errs.

The sports turning into a joke, and some of these posters are literally the punchline.

 

[MrKilroyT]

LOL, you are jumping up on a Saturday morning to make 10 minute later responses, after waiting up for me all night.

I wont be taking any "life advice" from you, you sad little man.

The original point has more than been justified, hence the interest you have shilling the thread.



They are attacking him on a reputation level. They could have at least given him the chance to appeal. It would have mattered little, and frankly if the brazilian commish is so bad, then thats just more crap against the sport.

Dana goes to brazil with trt using guys quite often, that cant get exemption in America. Guess thats all part of the sport though.

Suspend him. Let him appeal. Ban him.

Due process is good practice.

That really doesn't make much sense. If the decision was going to be to cut him, what purpose does waiting for an appeal really serve?

TRT is an entirely different issue.

You still have yet to address the point that Palhares is exactly the type of fighter that you claim the UFC favors yet you have tried to shoehorn him into your Okami beef. It does not fit.

 

[The Real Pedro]

I wish people would consider each thing on a case by case basis.

Each of OP's points are debatable, and overall, don't have anything to do with each other.

I disagreed with the Okami cut, and less so with the Fitch cut.

Going to war the dominant wrestling?
As a longtime MMA fan, I don't understand the "noobs" referring to this as a sport. There was another sport before this sport. And now MMA has evolved into yet another sport.
Ever since Kevin Randleman became the HW champ by laying on top of Pedro Rizzo and Pete Williams, this hasn't been what most fans want to see.
And now with the random/surprise TD's and various other 10-9 techniques, it has evolved even more into something that's less and less of a fight.
IMO, the downside of it (as a BJJ guy) is that using BJJ has become less and less of an option. There is no point in playing guard, even if you have the other guy on the defensive, because anything short of submitting him = losing the round. Passing guard and getting positions is risky because the guy might escape and get back up, as well as the fact that the judges don't care at all if you do pass guard. Even sweeps don't seem to be strongly considered; the initial TD is scored far more heavily.
Basically, guys with excellent BJJ only use it to get back up after a TD, with very few exceptions.

There is also this new trend of counting strikes and evaluating some as "significant" strikes. I've seen that many of these "significant" strikes aren't significant at all.
Whereas, rocking someone and almost finishing them is truly significant.... example: in the first title fight (2nd fight) between Gray Maynard and Frankie Edgar, how many significant strikes did each throw? I'll tell you: Gray threw about 12 significant strikes and Frankie threw about Zero. Fightmetric and Compustrike coming up with numbers different from that is a joke to me.

Great post. I concur.