How in God's name can a noobie beat a purple belt in BJJ? (Punk V Gall)

[Toxxus]

I train MMA recreationally..I cant begin to explain to tell you how much respect I have for REAL fighters. I train BJJ as well and the purple belts destroy my life easily. I'm considered to be in great shape in my class, I have great power, my coach says I am very impressive for a noob at BJJ. I have 4 years of boxing experience and let me tell you...the few purple belts easily nuke my life within seconds.

How in God's name will CM punk beat Gall? I just dont see it...am I missing something here? I am not a hater at all..I like CM Punk but this is not a sport you just adopt and conquer in. Brock was a legend at wrestling and thats the best sport to have a base in to do well in the UFC.

EDIT: Thread title meant to say how can a noob beat a purple belt in an MMA fight.

I can completely identify with that. When I started BJJ back in the 90s with Relson Gracie I couldn't believe how badly I got wrecked, for months by any non-white belt. As I picked up skill - defense seems to grow faster than offense in BJJ - I was able to survive the purple belts, but almost never submit one.

Despite his in-experience I fully expect Gall to run CM Punk over like a freight train.

 

[Captain]

Translating BJJ into modern MMA is very difficult. High level black belts struggle. Being a purple belt doesn't mean shit when you're in the octagon.
Keep in mind that Sage is a purple belt.

 

[rjmbrd]

How long was John Jones training before he took his first pro fight? I want to say 6 months... but someone will need to fact check this.

Few years later, he's a UFC champ and considered the greatest ever.

I've trained with guys who made it to purple in 2.5-3 years. Others are still white belt after 4. It's more of your dedication and ability to apply it all.

Basically, he could be at a high level of skills all around. Or be flopping fish with Ronda striking abilities. At least he is willing to man up and step in there (allegedly). I respect anyone who is willing to go to battle vs. another trained human being.

You mean the same Jon Jones who was a national champion in JuCo wrestling?

The same guy who has two brothers, and both are starting players in the NFL?

Yeah thats a reasonable corollary. Let's pick a star amateur wrestler with freak genetics as an example.

C'mon my dude!

 

[rjmbrd]

I can completely identify with that. When I started BJJ back in the 90s with Relson Gracie I couldn't believe how badly I got wrecked, for months by any non-white belt. As I picked up skill - defense seems to grow faster than offense in BJJ - I was able to survive the purple belts, but almost never submit one.

Despite his in-experience I fully expect Gall to run CM Punk over like a freight train.

Relson out in Hawaii must have been super cool time to start BJJ. What first got you over to his academy?

 

[akc814ilv]

I'm a purple belt. There isn't a white belt I've ever rolled with that I haven't felt completely in control against at all times.

Now with that said, there are good blue belts that can definitely give me a run for my money. Punk was a whit belt under Rener and Ryron before going to roofusport to train. Perhaps he has progressed a lot over the past year and a half or whatever it is.

It's reasonable to think that he could be a quality blue belt level now or even better.

I also don't know who Gall has his purple belt through. Mine was through Gracie Humaita and awarded by Regis Lebre, under Royler Gracie. They do not just give out promotions, but a purple under some other gym may more realistically be a blue belt. Punk being a white belt under Ryron and Rener may have been near a blue belt level already, because setting aside the Gracie university stuff, they are actually pretty stingy with their promotions. Could he realistically be at a solid purple belt level? Yeah he could.

It's honestly hard to say. Shogun is a black belt and has been since the pride days. He has been subbed by guys that are nowhere near a black belt level like chael and forrest. In other words.....belts from different camps mean different things.

 

[rjmbrd]

Translating BJJ into modern MMA is very difficult. High level black belts struggle. Being a purple belt doesn't mean shit when you're in the octagon.
Keep in mind that Sage is a purple belt.

Sage got tapped out in the Octagon against an opponent who had 14 professional MMA fights. That is double his own experience, and obviously being green makes a huge difference.

So now we contextualize this -

Jim: 4 fights experience (2 pro, 2 amature) and a Purple belt in BJJ

Bob: 0 fights experience and a White belt in BJJ


Yeah I'll take Jim.

 

[Toxxus]

Relson out in Hawaii must have been super cool time to start BJJ. What first got you over to his academy?

Caught the first couple of UFCs at my friend's house in Kailua (windward Oahu) and I looked for the first Gracie school I could find. Back when nobody had a ground game the BJJ was like sorcery. Got to see some really early Hawaii MMA (boxing rings mostly) with Egan, Enson and Cabbage. Eventually ended up training with Marcelo Tiger for a bit before 9/11 got him deported (because, you know, so many terrorists comin' in from Brazil...).

 

[rjmbrd]

It's honestly hard to say. Shogun is a black belt and has been since the pride days. He has been subbed by guys that are nowhere near a black belt level like chael and forrest. In other words.....belts from different camps mean different things.

Just wanted to note - Forrest Griffin was awarded his black belt by Robert Drysdale, who had been his instructor for years at that point. The Octagon is a complicated thing, but that aside - you are day dreaming if you think the Forrest Griffin who tapped out Shogun is getting rolled up like tin-foil at your local academy. He is not. He likely mops the floor with the guys who mop the floor with the guys you consider high level.

Unless Drysdale is a unabashed liar, he is on record saying Forrest has done well rolling with guys that compete internationally.

 

[JohnyBrabo]

I train MMA recreationally..I cant begin to explain to tell you how much respect I have for REAL fighters. I train BJJ as well and the purple belts destroy my life easily. I'm considered to be in great shape in my class, I have great power, my coach says I am very impressive for a noob at BJJ. I have 4 years of boxing experience and let me tell you...the few purple belts easily nuke my life within seconds.

How in God's name will CM punk beat Gall? I just dont see it...am I missing something here? I am not a hater at all..I like CM Punk but this is not a sport you just adopt and conquer in. Brock was a legend at wrestling and thats the best sport to have a base in to do well in the UFC.

EDIT: Thread title meant to say how can a noob beat a purple belt in an MMA fight.

Gall is actually a BROWN BELT. And a very good one at that.

 

[rjmbrd]

Caught the first couple of UFCs at my friend's house in Kailua (windward Oahu) and I looked for the first Gracie school I could find. Back when nobody had a ground game the BJJ was like sorcery. Got to see some really early Hawaii MMA (boxing rings mostly) with Egan, Enson and Cabbage. Eventually ended up training with Marcelo Tiger for a bit before 9/11 got him deported (because, you know, so many terrorists comin' in from Brazil...).

What a cool story - ironically as small a place as Oahu is, you could find world class jiu-jitsu when it was hard to find in the biggest cities on earth.

 

[samoajoe]

Punk has been training BJJ for over a decade now it cracks me up how people ignore this or dont realize it.

The only reason he didnt have a belt when he started MMA training is because he didnt have a home gym but thier are many photos over the years of him training with many BJJ legends.

 

[akc814ilv]

Just wanted to note - Forrest Griffin was awarded his black belt by Robert Drysdale, who had been his instructor for years at that point. The Octagon is a complicated thing, but that aside - you are day dreaming if you think the Forrest Griffin who tapped out Shogun is getting rolled up like tin-foil at your local academy. He is not. He likely mops the floor with the guys who mop the floor with the guys you consider high level.

Unless Drysdale is a unabashed liar, he is on record saying Forrest has done well rolling with guys that compete internationally.

Fair enough. I wasn't aware that Forrest was a black belt at that time.

My point still stands though. Just because you have a particular belt doesn't mean it carries the same weight as that same belt or even a lower belt under someone else.

Obviously a black belt under Drysdale is no joke. Correct me if I'm wrong though, but shogun had been a black belt for longer than Forrest at the time they fought, and forrest tapped him pretty easily.

Obviously in mma there are many variables. So I'm not blind to that either, but I am just trying to give an example.

 

[Dana_is_your_GOD]

Who do you think Anderson learned it from?

You complete me, brah.

 

[thisISjoel]

You're a beast TS.

 

[fatlipjesus]

1. THEY'RE NOT IN A GI, I GET IT PURPLE BELT BETTER THAN WHITE BELT IN NO GI... BUT CM PUNK HAS BEEN TRAINING ALOT AND THAT MAY CLOSE THE GAP AND IT'S NOT bjj match.

Who knows what will happen, that's why they actually have to fight and why we tune in

or in this case, we tune in because its Stipe vs Overeem. Anyone buying this card because of CM Punk is a retard.

 

[ZackZed]

I don't have any doubt that Gall is the better fighter. But something tells me training with Rener Gracie, Askren, Pettis bros, and Duke Roufus can really make a difference.

 

[ZackZed]

Did punk ever wrestle? Like non WWE style wrestling? A little wrestling background goes a long way on the mat. A strong understanding of the mechanics of movement on the ground translates pretty well and may even be achieved in some part from WWE wrestling. If you understand the mechanics it is just a matter of knowing where not to be.

My understanding is that Punk has been training MMA for a few years now. We have to remember that learning to not get subbed by a good BJJ guy is a lot easier than learning to sub a good BJJ guy. When you think of the great grapplers you roll with and what they do you also have to remember that you are engaging in a grappling match with them. In that situation you are looking for one of three outcomes, you sub them, they sub you or the clock runs out. If your focus is on striking and standing up or stalling out rather than engaging on the ground it becomes a lot easier to offset their belt level.

Punk only trained some form of McDojo Karate prior to WWE, and have received some one-on-one with Rener Gracie. So far, he's paying a shitload of money to Roufusport and is guaranteed a spot to be training with pros the likes of Pettis bros and Askren. He's doing everything he can to fast track his training to close the gap, but rumor is that he has lost all gym wars with smokers(said by Bisping, not very reliable source).

 

[The guest]

Not that I'm saying it'll happen but ... knocking someone the fuck out would do the trick.

 

[rjmbrd]

Fair enough. I wasn't aware that Forrest was a black belt at that time.

My point still stands though. Just because you have a particular belt doesn't mean it carries the same weight as that same belt or even a lower belt under someone else.

Obviously a black belt under Drysdale is no joke. Correct me if I'm wrong though, but shogun had been a black belt for longer than Forrest at the time they fought, and forrest tapped him pretty easily.

Obviously in mma there are many variables. So I'm not blind to that either, but I am just trying to give an example.

Shogun is very capable on the ground, and unless he and his brother Ninja are telling wild stories, they began training in BJJ first as children. They literally grew up grappling.

Obviously Shogun was famous for his devastating MT, but knocking guys out in the first round for the first half of your career doesn't mean you are not a ground player. Take Jose Aldo for example.

Suffice to say that out of his 10 career losses, Shogun was tapped 3 times. Sobral - who is a world famous competition level early jiu-jitsu player at the time, Forrest and Sonnen. Chael is an excellent MMA adapted grappler, go rewatch him putting away Brian Stann with an arm triangle, look at his setup and adjustments.

I would be willing to bet Shogun had 5,000 hours on the mat before he fought Forrest the first time.

 

[Skirm]

Gall is a rookie in the fight game. Punk is a vet who has found solace in the carnage.