How good was Chael Sonnen back in his heydays?

[Bork Neslar]

The best ever.

 

[nonoob]

A solid fighter that posed issues to pretty much every opponent he faced - 8/10
His greatest talent was outside the ring where he was the clear, undisputed champion on the microphone.

This nb, mega-multiplied.​

Damn good fighter, Total GOAT on the interview/presser mike, Bar None !

 

[cmw43]

Before or after he was juiced to the gills?

To be fair so were Jones, Anderson and Marquardt.

 

[Chayanne]

his mouth was better

 

[VinceArch]

The best ever.

 

[savemgs]

There are some strong arguments for Chael being one of the best middleweights ever. He was the first fighter in the UFC to take Silva to deep waters and he was seconds away from winning, though the arm bar caught him off his guard. Still, there is still an ongoing debate on whether Chael Sonnen tapped, as right after the referee stopped Chael tried to punch Silva. Maybe the referee misunderstood, and it wasn't a tap... Some taps might get confused as it is used sometimes as a subtle way to move the opponents' arm in very small but in positions easier to get out of it.

The second fight vs Silva had some controversy since Silva seemed to have grabbed Chael's trunks to avoid him to get the distance Chael wished and punched Chael.

And Greg Jackson preferred to fight Vitor and said that JJ wouldn't fight Chael on short notice, stating that Chael is very dangerous if not approached in a cautious way. And that was Chael going to LHW for me of the few times he did. Chael said he took Tropicana and was juiced, and that he recognized JJ was juiced too looking at his body before the fight. And in fact, it was a match that JJ looked like a bear... He looked like a machine that wasn't human. Some obsessive analysts speculate that JJ used PEDs for the first time as it was against Chael... But the threat was serious enough that some theorize that JJ used so much of it for Chael, that his performance vs Gus was worse due to it — his body couldn't come off the overdose of PEDs due to Chael being the big threat to JJ and recover well with the Gus match being short notice.

Also, Chael was also seconds from being the winner. Joe Rogan said that JJ was just to brutal with Chael's trash talk and all, that Chael said JJ wasn't a professional but just a brat for avoiding him, that it made JJ go hard to the point he even broke his knee accidentally... But some specialist upon close review see that, in meaningful but hard for the average eyes to see, as a ploy from Chael all along... With his outstanding wrestling knowledge, some Sambo Russian specialists say Chael waited for the right angle to he himself break JJ's toes... Some even say that Chael might have even thrown it outside the cage as a protest of the stoppage, like he planned it all along in a meticulous way. In fact, JJ was wearing protection in his toes when about to face Gane, maybe clear signs that it wasn't JJ accidentally breaking his toe, but a high level specialized technique from Chael that destroyed his toe.

Chael Sonnen? Look, no disrespect to the man, but calling him one of the greatest of all time at 185 is straight-up asinine.
We’re talking about a guy who lost every truly meaningful fight he was in. Yeah, he was a really good fighter—tough, skilled, knew how to sell a fight—but when it came time to actually win at the top? He choked. Every. Single. Time.
That said, there’s still plenty of guys in today’s middleweight division he could probably beat—Michael Page, Marvin Vettori, Jun Yong Park ect.

 

[Luffy]

Chael Sonnen? Look, no disrespect to the man, but calling him one of the greatest of all time at 185 is straight-up asinine.
We’re talking about a guy who lost every truly meaningful fight he was in. Yeah, he was a really good fighter—tough, skilled, knew how to sell a fight—but when it came time to actually win at the top? He choked. Every. Single. Time.
That said, there’s still plenty of guys in today’s middleweight division he could probably beat—Michael Page, Marvin Vettori, Jun Yong Park ect.

Yeah, I think the Chael from back when in his days there, in his best MW days, would have been defeated by the best middle weights of recent times. Like, Adesanya from some years ago, Whittaker... Now, Chimaev, DDP, Sean... I don't think Chael would beat them at all. The competitions get better. Coaching gets more technical as styles are way more studied and broken down, method for training evolves...

In terms of accomplishment in the MW, Anderson Silva was a better middleweight than Izzy, for sure. He is the best middleweight ever — Anderson, that is (Chael is more GOAT category huehuehue)... But as for who'd win between Anderson Silva from back then and Adesanya when he was in his days, Izzy would very likely win imo. He won, actually, when they fought.

 

[Joshua8531]

There are some strong arguments for Chael being one of the best middleweights ever. He was the first fighter in the UFC to take Silva to deep waters and he was seconds away from winning, though the arm bar caught him off his guard. Still, there is still an ongoing debate on whether Chael Sonnen tapped, as right after the referee stopped Chael tried to punch Silva. Maybe the referee misunderstood, and it wasn't a tap... Some taps might get confused as it is used sometimes as a subtle way to move the opponents' arm in very small but in positions easier to get out of it.

The second fight vs Silva had some controversy since Silva seemed to have grabbed Chael's trunks to avoid him to get the distance Chael wished and punched Chael.

And Greg Jackson preferred to fight Vitor and said that JJ wouldn't fight Chael on short notice, stating that Chael is very dangerous if not approached in a cautious way. And that was Chael going to LHW for me of the few times he did. Chael said he took Tropicana and was juiced, and that he recognized JJ was juiced too looking at his body before the fight. And in fact, it was a match that JJ looked like a bear... He looked like a machine that wasn't human. Some obsessive analysts speculate that JJ used PEDs for the first time as it was against Chael... But the threat was serious enough that some theorize that JJ used so much of it for Chael, that his performance vs Gus was worse due to it — his body couldn't come off the overdose of PEDs due to Chael being the big threat to JJ and recover well with the Gus match being short notice.

Also, Chael was also seconds from being the winner. Joe Rogan said that JJ was just to brutal with Chael's trash talk and all, that Chael said JJ wasn't a professional but just a brat for avoiding him, that it made JJ go hard to the point he even broke his knee accidentally... But some specialist upon close review see that, in meaningful but hard for the average eyes to see, as a ploy from Chael all along... With his outstanding wrestling knowledge, some Sambo Russian specialists say Chael waited for the right angle to he himself break JJ's toes... Some even say that Chael might have even thrown it outside the cage as a protest of the stoppage, like he planned it all along in a meticulous way. In fact, JJ was wearing protection in his toes when about to face Gane, maybe clear signs that it wasn't JJ accidentally breaking his toe, but a high level specialized technique from Chael that destroyed his toe.

Needed a good laugh what is the name of your fantasy land?

He obviously tapped and Silva had screwed up ribs during that fight. Then got demolished in the second fight.

Can't watch his show anymore he thinks he's smarter than he is, he's completely full of shit.

 

[Joshua8531]

Yeah, I think the Chael from back when in his days there, in his best MW days, would have been defeated by the best middle weights of recent times. Like, Adesanya from some years ago, Whittaker... Now, Chimaev, DDP, Sean... I don't think Chael would beat them at all. The competitions get better. Coaching gets more technical as styles are way more studied and broken down, method for training evolves...

In terms of accomplishment in the MW, Anderson Silva was a better middleweight than Izzy, for sure. He is the best middleweight ever — Anderson, that is (Chael is more GOAT category huehuehue)... But as for who'd win between Anderson Silva from back then and Adesanya when he was in his days, Izzy would very likely win imo. He won, actually, when they fought.

Silva would have destroyed IA in his prime how can you argue against that?

Yes we seen the fight and IA couldn't do a thing to him. Silva was 44 years old.

 

[Captain Tenneal]

Just like Tito, he was a high level grappler that entered early mma and realized success. He was great at certain positions but wouldn't be able to replicate the same impact now that MMA has matured.

 

[Luffy]

Silva would have destroyed IA in his prime how can you argue against that?

Yes we seen the fight and IA couldn't do a thing to him. Silva was 44 years old.

Was Silva that old? 44?

Or... That just shows you that Adesanya was better in terms of if they fought, which they did. Best of middleweight is philosophical in the sense of the accomplishments regarding one era. Fedor was one of the best HWs, likely the best HW of all due to his dominance of that era... But even in his long strike winnings, he would more than likely have been dominated by the monsters from HW when in shape, like a fully ready Jon Jones, Tom Aspinall, Ngannou...

MMA develops, training methods develop, things get figured out more as whether such technique or such exercise, diet, equipment, supplement, you name it, are more effective, etc...

 

[JustBleed69]

He was at his very best the night he fought Silva the first time.

 

[Lee Danger]

no striking and limited groundgame, he basically wrestled and powered his way to the top.
impressive.

 

[Joshua8531]

Was Silva that old? 44?

Or... That just shows you that Adesanya was better in terms of if they fought, which they did. Best of middleweight is philosophical in the sense of the accomplishments regarding one era. Fedor was one of the best HWs, likely the best HW of all due to his dominance of that era... But even in his long strike winnings, he would more than likely have been dominated by the monsters from HW when in shape, like a fully ready Jon Jones, Tom Aspinall, Ngannou...

MMA develops, training methods develop, things get figured out more as whether such technique or such exercise, diet, equipment, supplement, you name it, are more effective, etc...

Silva started his fighting career in 1997. He was old no question at 44 IA could not do shit against him. Fighting for 23 years. They would of had to scrape IA of the canvas if Silva fought him in his prime. Silva is 1 of the GOATS

That's ridiculous.
If you take that stance, your not open to any kind of discussion.

 

[prime_lobov]

Remember, Chael only tapped to Silva because he thought you could tap and only lose the round. Simple misunderstanding of the rules. He actually wom that fight.

 

[CroCopsLHK]

I'd say his most marquee performance, best performance, was against Nate Marquardt. They were both primed. I'd say that's the fight that best illustrates Sonnen

 

[podsox]

Undefeated ain’t bad

 

[pankrat]

I'd say his most marquee performance, best performance, was against Nate Marquardt. They were both primed. I'd say that's the fight that best illustrates Sonnen

His best performance was probaby against Okami. At least Sonnen considered so.

 

[FEDORFAN44]

Sonnen was a weird guy in the sense that he'd get koed or subbed by guys who weren't that great and then grind out wins over very good fighters.i didn't appreciate his career until I was older but he took some tough losses and ended up fighting for the ufc championship in two weightclasses. I was so hurt when he subbed shogun.

 

[Luffy]

Silva started his fighting career in 1997. He was old no question at 44 IA could not do shit against him. Fighting for 23 years. They would of had to scrape IA of the canvas if Silva fought him in his prime. Silva is 1 of the GOATS

That's ridiculous.
If you take that stance, your not open to any kind of discussion.

Well, Silva was good in that fight. He didn't seem to have stiffed by then. He even said he looked as good as he could. Izzy had so many fights too, he had almost 80 fights in kickboxing before coming to the UFC.... And his fight vs Silva was what, his 12th MMA fight? Kickboxers accumulate a lot, like, a lot of damage too, with the fights being all striking based. No one is 100% of what they could be, no one knows Adesanya when a peak kickboxer either.

Anderson Silva lost because Adesanya was better. MMA evolves, striking evolves, it all revolves with time. Rarely is the next generation worse than the previous one. That's the same in LHW as well. Jon Jones started to have competitive fights vs Santos, Reyes. Reyes had a close fight vs Jon Jones, he isn't top 3 in the division right now... I believe Jon Jones got better in those 3 years. Tough to grasp it, but he is a student of the game, I think he trained and studied a lot those new tendencies. But even JJ never denied that Reyes was a hard fight because he (JJ) was getting worse. He even put Reyes and Gus in the same category as the only one who gave him a run for his money, and he noticed that due to Reyes' ability — said Dominick had many tools, very good TD defense, athleticism... He compared him to Gustafsson.

But still, JJ got better to be able to deal with Gane and Miocic in his first 2 HW fights, and against likely, if JJ is #1, Tom is #2, those were #3 and #4 right there (Miocic was just not ranked because he wasn't fighting, not because he lost. He lost to a juiccee Ngannou but was 1-1).

But in general, it's rare to see a former generation fighter making adjustments and coming back top tier in a new generation. Mainly because the old generation don't feel much like pushing anymore (most common way to approach it... They went there, conquered, got close, left). But some who seem to be obsessed in competing and are also genius in terms of fighting IQ, as well as genetically gifted for fighting, like, a body made for fighting, like JJ, Poatan, Glover Teixeira... Some examples only, but they are some who get better with age when they study the new pattern and want to continue, enjoy the training process and are fighting nerds who tape study like crazy. Glover was a champion as a 40 years old, beating up Jan and outperforming Jiri, both whom beat up Reyes, who was close to JJ. Glover was dominated by JJ earlier. He is one of those who improved, as weird as that is.