Social How did your Thanksgiving political discussions with family go?

[ROcknrollracing]

We talked zero politics

 

[fedorthegoat777]

Factual claim is false (also, they're not neutral when the president is a Democrat). Trump didn't debate Weld, Obama didn't debate Wolfe, Bush didn't debate Wyatt. No point in any of that.



Well, in the actual reality, Biden is, in fact, killing deals (got a hugely consequential bipartisan infrastructure deal, for example), saving America (got us out of the pandemic recession and the pandemic), dropping killer speeches. Not sure if the average America is as deluded as you are, but inflation has factually been whupped, and we're extremely lucky to have Biden running foreign policy at this point. RFK has higher unfavorables than favorables among Democrats so he's definitely not the people's candidate. CTism and nepotism play better among Republicans actually, so he should try for their nomination.

Jack,
Ok, I'll bite. I will believe that you think Biden is doing a great job. I will also further believe you might have found other people at your Thanksgiving dinner to talk about the greatness of Joe Biden. Maybe your Dad and Grandpa express how thankful you are for him and everyone else stays quit or you shout them down. But "Dropping killer speeches" Get out of here. You are a troll account. There is no way anyone believes this. He literally reads the teleprompter and says all the non verbal instructions. People like to be inspired by their leaders and expect them to motivate with powerful speeches. Like Barack Obama or John F. Kennedy, Kennedy's speeches are still quoted today, as Lincoln's are. George W. Bush had a lot of oratorical errors, and people did not like that. Biden is worse.

 

[ObsoleteSoul]

We didn't. My eldest son could not attend due to work, and he is the only one who would talk politics at a family get-together. Aunt only brought up God once too. It was wonderful.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Jack,
Ok, I'll bite. I will believe that you think Biden is doing a great job. I will also further believe you might have found other people at your Thanksgiving dinner to talk about the greatness of Joe Biden. Maybe your Dad and Grandpa express how thankful you are for him and everyone else stays quit or you shout them down. But "Dropping killer speeches" Get out of here. You are a troll account. There is no way anyone believes this.

It's really remarkable to me how effectively Republicans are able to prevent their followers from thinking critically. It's not a matter of convincing people that bad arguments are good as much as just getting them to not even think that it is even possible to sincerely question the party line.

 

[RonDante]

Talking about politics around the dinner table? Do Americans really?

Pretty fun as usual. The in-laws are starting to see the merits of my proposed plan for the middle east (wall it off, let them kill each other until they're happy, film it for reality TV) even though they still think it's vile & morally wrong in every way. My wife's family lived in the middle east during the 90s so their perspective is obviously not the same as mine, but I do enjoy discussing Asian & middle east issues & politics with them. None of us give a shit about the Ukrainian war so that wasn't really discussed, but we did touch on how the media coverage is complete fucking bullshit.

you married a Middle Eastern baddie?

 

[chardog]

oddly enough, there was no politics talk aside from some discussing how to deal with inflation, it was mostly business and how to make more money <Lmaoo>
random college talk for the older kids and what not, dont get too focused on things that you cant change.

 

[Eusung]

None. Everyone in my family is on eggshells whenever anything political gets brought up. When someone brings up anything political, everyone goes silent.

Wasn't like that up until a few years ago.

Everyone in my family is a normie liberal, I think they call them boba tea Asians, liberal by default without paying attn to politics... except my dad who is more old fashioned conservative ( he likes Pence but hates Trump).

 

[fedorthegoat777]

It's really remarkable to me how effectively Republicans are able to prevent their followers from thinking critically. It's not a matter of convincing people that bad arguments are good as much as just getting them to not even think that it is even possible to sincerely question the party line.

It's really remarkable to me how effectively Republicans are able to prevent their followers from thinking critically. It's not a matter of convincing people that bad arguments are good as much as just getting them to not even think that it is even possible to sincerely question the party line.

That's a deflection Jack. Let's do some critical thinking. You said Biden was a great speaker. Was that a mistake? Are you comparing him to other Presidents or nursing home residents?

Let's take a course in integrity and admit he sucks at speaking but you still think he is a good President based on policy.

Kind of like how Gavin held his own in the debates and did good, yet his governing abilities are less than stellar.

 

[Jack V Savage]

That's a deflection Jack. Let's do some critical thinking.

What do you think I'm deflecting from. Your response was just a personal attack directed at me because I don't buy the party line (and others I know don't either).

You said Biden was a great speaker. Was that a mistake? Are you comparing him to other Presidents or nursing home residents?

This is what I said: "Well, in the actual reality, Biden is, in fact, killing deals (got a hugely consequential bipartisan infrastructure deal, for example), saving America (got us out of the pandemic recession and the pandemic), dropping killer speeches. Not sure if the average America is as deluded as you are, but inflation has factually been whupped, and we're extremely lucky to have Biden running foreign policy at this point."

Let's take a course in integrity and admit he sucks at speaking but you still think he is a good President based on policy.

Kind of like how Gavin held his own in the debates and did good, yet his governing abilities are less than stellar.

Let's indeed take a course in integrity and go back to my point. He has done great with policy and made some great speeches. Do you read that as saying that 100% of his speeches are great? Why not just address what I'm really saying, if you disagree with it, instead of trying to "gotcha" by misinterpreting?

And Newsom has done great with policy. Do you even follow CA politics or do you just say his governing ability is bad because he gets attacked by rightist media?

 

[aerius]

you married a Middle Eastern baddie?

No, but she does wear a keffiyeh from time to time...

 

[Don Quixote]

Not bad. There are no liberals in my family.

 

[RonDante]

No, but she does wear a keffiyeh from time to time...

Nice, dude

 

[fedorthegoat777]

What do you think I'm deflecting from. Your response was just a personal attack directed at me because I don't buy the party line (and others I know don't either).



This is what I said: "Well, in the actual reality, Biden is, in fact, killing deals (got a hugely consequential bipartisan infrastructure deal, for example), saving America (got us out of the pandemic recession and the pandemic), dropping killer speeches. Not sure if the average America is as deluded as you are, but inflation has factually been whupped, and we're extremely lucky to have Biden running foreign policy at this point."



Let's indeed take a course in integrity and go back to my point. He has done great with policy and made some great speeches. Do you read that as saying that 100% of his speeches are great? Why not just address what I'm really saying, if you disagree with it, instead of trying to "gotcha" by misinterpreting?

And Newsom has done great with policy. Do you even follow CA politics or do you just say his governing ability is bad because he gets attacked by rightist media?

1. I would not attack you personally, I like you Jack, just disagree with a lot of things you say, not all. My previous argument was that people do not like Biden, they just voted for him because they dislike Trump more. You mentioned a Thanksgiving where "everyone" talked about the great job Biden was doing, I joked that this Thanksgiving dinner probably consisted of you and your Dad.
2. Thank you for clarification on Biden's speaking abilities, that sounds better.
3. I just conceded that your boy Gavin sounded smart, articulate, intelligent and held himself well during the debate. He did pretty well from the parts that I saw. Saying that his actual policy is any good is a bit pushing it, especially for me.
4. The DNC can put forth a lot of people to beat Trump this election, because he has pissed off people from the left and people from his own party. Biden is not one of those people. He takes a L this time around. People from both parties don't see him as competent. The people that remain with him do so because they are more loyal to their party than him. The exception would be you and the people at your Thanksgiving dinner

 

[Jack V Savage]

1. I would not attack you personally, I like you Jack, just disagree with a lot of things you say, not all. My previous argument was that people do not like Biden, they just voted for him because they dislike Trump more. You mentioned a Thanksgiving where "everyone" talked about the great job Biden was doing, I joked that this Thanksgiving dinner probably consisted of you and your Dad.
2. Thank you for clarification on Biden's speaking abilities, that sounds better.
3. I just conceded that your boy Gavin sounded smart, articulate, intelligent and held himself well during the debate. He did pretty well from the parts that I saw. Saying that his actual policy is any good is a bit pushing it, especially for me.
4. The DNC can put forth a lot of people to beat Trump this election, because he has pissed off people from the left and people from his own party. Biden is not one of those people. He takes a L this time around. People from both parties don't see him as competent. The people that remain with him do so because they are more loyal to their party than him. The exception would be you and the people at your Thanksgiving dinner

1. You said I was a troll account for no reason other than I disagreed with a GOP talking point.
3. My boy? Look through my history. I've not supported Newsom for president or anything, but he has taken important and controversial steps as governor. From a policy perspective, he's been excellent. You didn't answer my question about whether you follow local CA politics, and I assume that means you don’t and are just obligated to say his policy is bad because he's not a Republican. Look into SB 9, 10, and 167 for examples of what I mean, if you actually care about local policy as opposed to just partisan talking points.
4. Similarly, I think you have done a good job internalizing what you see on Hannity and the like, but if you actually care to look into it, you'll see that Biden has been *extremely* competent. I've been in the WR long enough to know how this goes. "Obama is terrible, but if Democrats nominated someone moderate and competent like Hillary, I'd vote for them." Later, from the same people, "Clinton is a monster, they should have nominated someone universally loved and respected like Biden." Etc. The current president/nominee gets bashed in rightist media and is the worst person ever. It's not a feature of the individual, just comes with the role.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

1. You said I was a troll account for no reason other than I disagreed with a GOP talking point.
3. My boy? Look through my history. I've not supported Newsom for president or anything, but he has taken important and controversial steps as governor. From a policy perspective, he's been excellent. You didn't answer my question about whether you follow local CA politics, and I assume that means you don’t and are just obligated to say his policy is bad because he's not a Republican. Look into SB 9, 10, and 167 for examples of what I mean, if you actually care about local policy as opposed to just partisan talking points.
4. Similarly, I think you have done a good job internalizing what you see on Hannity and the like, but if you actually care to look into it, you'll see that Biden has been *extremely* competent. I've been in the WR long enough to know how this goes. "Obama is terrible, but if Democrats nominated someone moderate and competent like Hillary, I'd vote for them." Later, from the same people, "Clinton is a monster, they should have nominated someone universally loved and respected like Biden." Etc. The current president/nominee gets bashed in rightist media and is the worst person ever. It's not a feature of the individual, just comes with the role.

1. I said you were a troll when you said Biden was a great speaker. That was a bit over the top and not based in reality. You later clarified your position by saying that Biden is a great speaker but acknowledged that he occasionally makes blunders. I'll take it. I probably don't see him as good of a speaker as you do, but at least that is a fair statement. Sorry for saying that you were a troll.
3. We started out on the Gavin path because I acknowledged that he held himself pretty well in the debate. He is articulate, intelligent, and handles himself well and looks the part. My issue with Gavin has nothing to do with the policies you mentioned, but rather three primary issues: A. Dictatorship during covid. California was one of the worst states during covid. They took away people's rights and did excessive lock downs. The prevented people from eating at restaurants, running small businesses, skateboarding at parks, going to parks, and surfing outside. Silliness. I resent those that like excessive control as my primary political belief is limited government. I also blame Trump for allowing this circus during the end of this Presidency. B. Not being tough on crime. California seems to be encouraging crime and lawlessness through their laws. C. Promoting an open border, allow more immigrants, but they need to be screened to prevent violent immigrants and terrorists. I acknowledge he may have passed some good laws.
4. I think your narrative that:

The current president/nominee gets bashed in rightist media and is the worst person ever.

Is convenient but not based on reality. People on the right and left don't see Biden as a strong articulate leader setting out to save America. He blunders through things. He is not taking live questions, he can't debate, everything is prepared for him. He is no Barack Obama who had a silver tongue and could handle himself well. I'm sure you ribbed George W. Bush for his oratorical blunders but give Biden a pass, while his are much worse. From a policy perspective, I am against Biden's reckless spending which created inflation, shutting down the pipeline which raised gas prices, allowing kids to be sexually mutilated, and open borders. Also, I don't consume right wing media and Hannity, though the quip was funny.

 

[Jack V Savage]

3. We started out on the Gavin path because I acknowledged that he held himself pretty well in the debate. He is articulate, intelligent, and handles himself well and looks the part. My issue with Gavin has nothing to do with the policies you mentioned, but rather three primary issues: A. Dictatorship during covid. California was one of the worst states during covid. They took away people's rights and did excessive lock downs. The prevented people from eating at restaurants, running small businesses, skateboarding at parks, going to parks, and surfing outside. Silliness. I resent those that like excessive control as my primary political belief is limited government. I also blame Trump for allowing this circus during the end of this Presidency. B. Not being tough on crime. California seems to be encouraging crime and lawlessness through their laws. C. Promoting an open border, allow more immigrants, but they need to be screened to prevent violent immigrants and terrorists. I acknowledge he may have passed some good laws.
4. I think your narrative that:

Is convenient but not based on reality. People on the right and left don't see Biden as a strong articulate leader setting out to save America. He blunders through things. He is not taking live questions, he can't debate, everything is prepared for him. He is no Barack Obama who had a silver tongue and could handle himself well. I'm sure you ribbed George W. Bush for his oratorical blunders but give Biden a pass, while his are much worse. From a policy perspective, I am against Biden's reckless spending which created inflation, shutting down the pipeline which raised gas prices, allowing kids to be sexually mutilated, and open borders. Also, I don't consume right wing media and Hannity, though the quip was funny.

3.

A. "Dictatorship" is exaggerating to the point of hysteria. I live in CA, and I can tell you no one's rights were taken away. Generally, the difference between states in COVID response was exaggerated in partisan press. CA did a pretty good job there overall.
B. It seems that way if you get your news from Hannity. The goal is effective action to reduce crime. Crime jumped nationwide in 2020, and then has leveled or fallen since, depending on the specific crimes you're looking at, and CA has followed national trends. Actually evaluating the impact of policy at various levels of gov't on crime rates is extremely difficult because data comes with a big lag and there are a lot of confounders. But you also have these bad actors in the political gossip media just spreading bullshit partisan stuff.
C. Immigration enforcement is a federal responsibility.

4. It's just a kind of obvious fact what I said. I'm surprised you're not aware how it works. And your take on the job is, no offense, extremely naive. Also, Biden crushed Trump, Bernie, and Ryan in debates. Debating is not relevant to the job, but you can't honestly deny that Biden is good at it. People joked about W's language issues, but the reason he's considered a really bad president and Biden is a great one is policy. The notion that Biden caused inflation is silly. Inflation was worldwide, and the U.S. saw much less of it than other developed countries. Similarly, U.S. gas production is at an all-time high, but the difference from one year to another is negligible relative to global numbers. The idea that "Biden shut down some pipeline and that caused a noticeable impact on gas prices," is absurd. I guarantee that if you sit down and take a moment to understand the issue rather than just assuming that talking points are correct, you'll agree with me. It's so clear that I don't think you can fail to miss it, and it's not a matter of opinion. Borders also are not open, and the claim that Biden is sexually mutilating kids (for adrenochrome?) is sick and false.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

3.

A. "Dictatorship" is exaggerating to the point of hysteria. I live in CA, and I can tell you no one's rights were taken away. Generally, the difference between states in COVID response was exaggerated in partisan press. CA did a pretty good job there overall.
B. It seems that way if you get your news from Hannity. The goal is effective action to reduce crime. Crime jumped nationwide in 2020, and then has leveled or fallen since, depending on the specific crimes you're looking at, and CA has followed national trends. Actually evaluating the impact of policy at various levels of gov't on crime rates is extremely difficult because data comes with a big lag and there are a lot of confounders. But you also have these bad actors in the political gossip media just spreading bullshit partisan stuff.
C. Immigration enforcement is a federal responsibility.

4. It's just a kind of obvious fact what I said. I'm surprised you're not aware how it works. And your take on the job is, no offense, extremely naive. Also, Biden crushed Trump, Bernie, and Ryan in debates. Debating is not relevant to the job, but you can't honestly deny that Biden is good at it. People joked about W's language issues, but the reason he's considered a really bad president and Biden is a great one is policy. The notion that Biden caused inflation is silly. Inflation was worldwide, and the U.S. saw much less of it than other developed countries. Similarly, U.S. gas production is at an all-time high, but the difference from one year to another is negligible relative to global numbers. The idea that "Biden shut down some pipeline and that caused a noticeable impact on gas prices," is absurd. I guarantee that if you sit down and take a moment to understand the issue rather than just assuming that talking points are correct, you'll agree with me. It's so clear that I don't think you can fail to miss it, and it's not a matter of opinion. Borders also are not open, and the claim that Biden is sexually mutilating kids (for adrenochrome?) is sick and false.

- Yes, obviously when I said dictatorship, I wasn't being literal. But it was definitely more authoritative than it should have been. With vaccine cards, closing down restaurants, parks, beaches, etc. I believe in a limited federal government, and this goes with both parties.
- You like this Hannity guy. I haven't watched any news once this year, I stay pretty busy. I Sherdog, Linked In, youtube, and Twitter. And read news bits on Google. The crime escalation in California is all over these sources. A lot of people complain about it.
- "Immigration enforcement is a federal responsibility" - Well someone is messing this up. Who is the guy in charge of federal responsibility? Is it the silver tongued oratorical genius?



"But the reason he's considered a really bad president and Biden is a great one is policy" - Biden being a great President is the opinion of Jack V. Savage, not America.

"The claim that Biden is sexually mutilating kids (for adrenochrome?) is sick and false." - What? You hunt the depths of Q for that one? Biden is doing nothing to stop kids under 18 from having sex change operations. This is horrible. You can not allow life changing alterations on kids that are not old enough to smoke or drink. You can wait till you are 18 to chop your dick off if it bothers you that bad. Child abuse is being monitized.

- Gas immediately went up when Biden became president due to the executive orders he signed for environmental protection. To deny this is no offense, extremely naive.

 

[Jack V Savage]

- Yes, obviously when I said dictatorship, I wasn't being literal. But it was definitely more authoritative than it should have been. With vaccine cards, closing down restaurants, parks, beaches, etc. I believe in a limited federal government, and this goes with both parties.
- You like this Hannity guy. I haven't watched any news once this year, I stay pretty busy. I Sherdog, Linked In, youtube, and Twitter. And read news bits on Google. The crime escalation in California is all over these sources. A lot of people complain about it.
- "Immigration enforcement is a federal responsibility" - Well someone is messing this up. Who is the guy in charge of federal responsibility? Is it the silver tongued oratorical genius?



"But the reason he's considered a really bad president and Biden is a great one is policy" - Biden being a great President is the opinion of Jack V. Savage, not America.

"The claim that Biden is sexually mutilating kids (for adrenochrome?) is sick and false." - What? You hunt the depths of Q for that one? Biden is doing nothing to stop kids under 18 from having sex change operations. This is horrible. You can not allow life changing alterations on kids that are not old enough to smoke or drink. You can wait till you are 18 to chop your dick off if it bothers you that bad. Child abuse is being monitized.

- Gas immediately went up when Biden became president due to the executive orders he signed for environmental protection. To deny this is no offense, extremely naive.

I dunno, I went to the beach almost every day during the height of the pandemic. As I said, I think you have an extremely distorted idea of the reality on the ground. Didn't vary that much from state to state.

I don't really know what to say when the numbers say something and the response is "well, Fox News fans are saying something else." I think data is a better guide to truth than partisan narratives.

The shifting on immigration says a lot about your intentions, IMO. We're discussing Newsom, you were trying to say he's bad on policy even though you clearly don't follow CA politics, and you grabbed immigration as one issue. When I pointed out that that's a federal responsibility, instead of just saying "oops, my bad," you start bashing Biden. You don't think it's possible that you're letting political propaganda interfere with your ability to think clearly about reality?

Similarly, the attack that Biden is not banning sex-change stuff for minors is kind of crazy. Does the president even have any authority in that regard? It's not clear to me where that would come from, and generally, I don't think politicians should make medical decisions.

You didn't do what I recommended. The U.S. accounts for less than a fifth of oil production in the world, right? What percentage of world production is whatever you're referring to? Do the math on it. And you realize that U.S. production is at an all-time high now, right?

 

[TeTe]

I refuse to talk about politics with people anymore. I mean, I don't mind talk about the economy and issues that are made political... but I try to avoid talking about political parties or specific politicians. That's when the whole team sport and populist nonsense comes out and I want nothing to do with it.

 

[SammyPops]

seriously, who talks politics with family?

no talk about poitics, money, or religion at my table