How come Max is still in his prime but people say that Aldo was past prime when he fought Volk?

[Shay Brennan]

I mean, When Aldo fought Volk he wasn't even 33 years old.
Holloway is now just 4 months younger than Aldo was when Volk dominated him in Brazil.
Look at what he did to the most violent LW of all time.

Aldo has been fighting at the highest level (including WEC) since 2008 while Max was fighting at the highest level since 2012.
That means Aldo was 11 yeas in when he fought Volk and Max was 12 years in when he KOed Gaethje.

Not to mention, that Aldo looked very good after the Volk loss and he was actually improving all the way up to the Merab loss.
His boxing was better than ever, he was setting personal best records, his TDD was as good as ever, he was even bringing back leg kicks to some extent.

Even if we count their entire careers(amateur included) Max was fighting since 2006 while Aldo was fighting since 2004.

In my opinion prime version of fighters like Max, Volk and Petr would beat any version of Aldo simply because they have much better gas tanks and chins.

So, If he really wasn't in his physical prime when he fought Volk then when was he, from which fight to which?

 

[Substance Abuse]

Everyone's primes are the same. Everyone accumulates the same injuries. Everyone trains the same. Max and Jose both got in motorcycle accidents. Max and Jose both kept sparring.

However, to delve further into it, most fighters begin to experience an athletic, reactionary and ability to absorb damage decline about ten to twelve years in. GSP is considered one of the greats and his career was winding down in '13 after almost twelve years of fighting, prompting him to retire. Condit's descent began in '14 after starting in '02 when he got injured against Woodley. Aldo was a few months shy of his twelfth year in MMA at 29 when he began to lose. Fedor started taking losses almost eleven years in. Edgar wasn't the same thirteen years in. Big Nog eleven years. Liddell hit the wall around that time.

Yes, there are outliers like Mighty Mouse, Jon Jones (wink, wink) Anderson Silva (wink, wink), and apparently Max (who stopped sparring to spare his health and try to stave off decline), but for the most part, the majority of top fighters experience it after or around this time frame and begin to taste defeat more often as reflexes change; wear takes it toll; chins fade; injuries linger; weight cuts get harder; there's more tape available on you.

To hammer home my point: Volkanovski lost to Ilia three months shy of his twelfth year as a mixed martial artist. He's still a great fighter, but at 35, and this far into his career, he'll likely never be the same.

 

[Schoolboy Q]

Everyone's primes are the same. Everyone accumulates the same injuries. Everyone trains the same. Max and Jose both got in motorcycle accidents. Max and Jose both kept sparring.

/thread, this thread was just dumb.

 

[cade187]

When your favourite fighters start losing, they are past their prime. When fighters you dislike start losing, they are still in their prime; they just suck.

 

[IsNormal]

> Everyone's primes are the same. Everyone accumulates the same injuries. Everyone trains the same. Max and Jose both got in motorcycle accidents. Max and Jose both kept sparring.

> When your favourite fighters start losing, they are past their prime. When fighters you dislike start losing, they are still in their prime; they just suck.

I love how this thread opens with 2 of the best arguments from each different side

Let the battle commence

 

[Luthien]

Islanders are just built different

 

[Barteh]

Everyone's primes are the same. Everyone accumulates the same injuries. Everyone trains the same. Max and Jose both got in motorcycle accidents. Max and Jose both kept sparring.

However, to delve further into it, most fighters begin to experience an athletic, reactionary and ability to absorb damage decline about ten to twelve years in. GSP is considered one of the greats and his career was winding down in '03 after almost twelve years of fighting, prompting him to retire. Condit's descent began in '14 after starting in '02 when he got injured against Woodley. Aldo was a few months shy of his twelfth year in MMA at 29 when he began to lose. Fedor started taking losses almost eleven years in. Edgar wasn't the same thirteen years in. Big Nog eleven years. Liddell hit the wall around that time.

Yes, there are outliers like Mighty Mouse, Jon Jones and Anderson Silva (wink wink), and apparently Max (who stopped sparring to spare his health and try to stave off decline), but for the most part, the majority of top fighters experience it after or around this time frame and begin to taste defeat more often as reflexes change; wear takes it toll; chins fade; injuries linger; weight cuts get harder; there's more tape is available on you.

To hammer home my point: Volkanovski lost to Ilia three months shy of his twelfth year as a mixed martial artist.

Yeah I remember some Sherdogger did a big analysis on it a while ago and basically concluded that a fighter's prime lasts 11-13 years regardless of age.

Not sure if you remember that thread or just pretty much got to the same conclusion by yourself.

 

[Substance Abuse]

Yeah I remember some Sherdogger did a big analysis on it a while ago and basically concluded that a fighter's prime lasts 11-13 years regardless of age.

Not sure if you remember that thread or just pretty much got to the same conclusion by yourself.

I don't recall that thread and came to the conclusion on my own, but whoever put that one together was right.

 

[Shay Brennan]

Everyone's primes are the same. Everyone accumulates the same injuries. Everyone trains the same. Max and Jose both got in motorcycle accidents. Max and Jose both kept sparring.

However, to delve further into it, most fighters begin to experience an athletic, reactionary and ability to absorb damage decline about ten to twelve years in. GSP is considered one of the greats and his career was winding down in '03 after almost twelve years of fighting, prompting him to retire. Condit's descent began in '14 after starting in '02 when he got injured against Woodley. Aldo was a few months shy of his twelfth year in MMA at 29 when he began to lose. Fedor started taking losses almost eleven years in. Edgar wasn't the same thirteen years in. Big Nog eleven years. Liddell hit the wall around that time.

Yes, there are outliers like Mighty Mouse, Jon Jones and Anderson Silva (wink wink), and apparently Max (who stopped sparring to spare his health and try to stave off decline), but for the most part, the majority of top fighters experience it after or around this time frame and begin to taste defeat more often as reflexes change; wear takes it toll; chins fade; injuries linger; weight cuts get harder; there's more tape is available on you.

To hammer home my point: Volkanovski lost to Ilia three months shy of his twelfth year as a mixed martial artist. He's still a great fighter, but at 35, and this far into his career, he'll likely never be the same.

So what you're saying is that Aldo's prime ended when he beat Edgar the second time?

 

[markg171]

Yeah I remember some Sherdogger did a big analysis on it a while ago and basically concluded that a fighter's prime lasts 11-13 years regardless of age.

Not sure if you remember that thread or just pretty much got to the same conclusion by yourself.

Then we've got Jon Jones who's at 16 years.

 

[IsNormal]

I remember some Sherdogger did a big analysis on it a while ago and basically concluded that a fighter's prime lasts 11-13 years regardless of age.

Even if they concluded no one does well after 13 years of a good career - people can still argue that has nothing to do with being out of their physical prime.

You can argue it's more about "you're gonna be bested sooner or later if you fight at the elite level long enough" - it might have nothing to do with physical decline, just stats: if you have a 90% win chance you'll likely loose after you get past +10 elite fights

Some will say "there was no obvious reason he would've been out of his physical prime, he was younger than [insert other champ]"

Others will say "mileage! he wasn't the same after [insert fight]"

 

[Local Plata]

So what you're saying is that Aldo's prime ended when he beat Edgar the second time?

In my view he was already slowing down visibly in the first Mendes fight. I don't recall the timelines, but I believe he had some knee issues back around the Hominick fight or something, kinda coincides with his much more boxing focused style and he was much less springy. Watching him in the WEC was wild, he could move in and out of the pocket while striking in a split second, it was some really wild shit.

It's kind of hard to define primes when everyones opinions are mostly determined by performance which is in turn determined by the opponent a lot of the time. Jose had such crazy longevity at the highest levels as well, but if you take a couple fights and compare them, like say Aldo/Faber then Aldo/Mendes II it kinda highlights what I'm talking about.

 

[ipowerslapmywife]

Aldo would’ve lost to max at any point in his career

 

[Barteh]

Then we've got Jon Jones who's at 16 years.

Think it's fair to say he's kind of past his prime but simply still good enough to beat most other fighters. Not everybody just completely falls off when they exit their prime.

 

[Kevin Sorbo]

Aldo would’ve lost to max at any point in his career

Maybe, but Aldo was a beast at his peak. I miss the Aldo who destroyed peoples legs...

 

[Substance Abuse]

Think it's fair to say he's kind of past his prime but simply still good enough to beat most other fighters. Not everybody just completely falls off when they exit their prime.

I think it's also fair to say some other factors may be at play.

 

[jsbx45]

Everyone's primes are the same. Everyone accumulates the same injuries. Everyone trains the same. Max and Jose both got in motorcycle accidents. Max and Jose both kept sparring.

However, to delve further into it, most fighters begin to experience an athletic, reactionary and ability to absorb damage decline about ten to twelve years in. GSP is considered one of the greats and his career was winding down in '03 after almost twelve years of fighting, prompting him to retire. Condit's descent began in '14 after starting in '02 when he got injured against Woodley. Aldo was a few months shy of his twelfth year in MMA at 29 when he began to lose. Fedor started taking losses almost eleven years in. Edgar wasn't the same thirteen years in. Big Nog eleven years. Liddell hit the wall around that time.

Yes, there are outliers like Mighty Mouse, Jon Jones and Anderson Silva (wink wink), and apparently Max (who stopped sparring to spare his health and try to stave off decline), but for the most part, the majority of top fighters experience it after or around this time frame and begin to taste defeat more often as reflexes change; wear takes it toll; chins fade; injuries linger; weight cuts get harder; there's more tape is available on you.

To hammer home my point: Volkanovski lost to Ilia three months shy of his twelfth year as a mixed martial artist. He's still a great fighter, but at 35, and this far into his career, he'll likely never be the same.

Great post.

 

[bng]

winning or if you are friends with autobots = prime
losing = non-prime
autistic youtube blogger = PRIME

 

[MEAN357]

Most thought Max was out of his Prime too, in fact that fight with Gaethje was a bit of a career resurgence.

Also Aldo was out of his prime lol very little to argue there

 

[Barteh]

I think it's also fair to say some other factors may be at play.

Very clever way to refer to your own username here.