How come American universities are the best, but American schools are mediocre?

[Jack Reacheround]

When you're the most powerful nation in the world and everyone wants to fuck with you, it's important to have a strong defense system. But we pay a lot less in taxes than the vast majority of nations with socialized medical and educational systems.

I can't claim to know exactly how we stack up to Canada, but the fact remains that all that "free" shit you think you're getting . . . it's not free.

This isn't exactly a revelation. Everyone knows this. But consider that American schools are a lot different from other countries' schools for a few reasons.
If you look at China and try to compare us to them, sure their students outperform ours. Some of that may be because they teach a better curriculum. Some may be that they, as a culture, value education more than we do. But some may also be that they are a much more homogenous society. Everyone has a similar upbringing, values, childhood, etc. And also consider that they are, for the most part, a socialist society. People also praise the education system under Hitler in WW2 Germany. So there does seem to be some trade off between freedom and educational performance.

Or look at Europe today, where they basically tell the kids, "you are going to do this because your testing suggests an aptitude for it." It's not exactly like that, but they have to choose pretty early on what career they want.

The point is, I think there are many identifiable things we could change to make our schools better, but would require sacrifices to the kind of choice we get. And when you take into consideration the number of different cultures and languages, the degree of decision making freedom, and the challenges unique to schools in America, we are not doing as badly as we think.
I think a good start would be more funding for out schools.

 

[D3THRONED]

eww no.

the best countries in the world have mainly public education.

GTFO of here suggesting all public education should be privatized.
Thats a straight path to a 5% literacy rate.

Are you retarded? Private schools shit on public schools lmao. Paying more for education will always beat public funded schools. I've been to both here in Baton Rouge. Are you living under a rock? Jesus Christ dude

 

[Thunderflash500]

Public schools are not run by the US government. They are run by local school districts and school boards with state funding and oversight, and minimum requirements set by the federal DOE. As prime an example of "local control" as there is. If the schools in your area suck, blame the school board, not the big bad federal government.

Well no child Left behind and the new policies made to deal with that mess do have a large effect. The federal government is trying to standardize education. Can't really pretend it's hands off and local.

 

[lts5025]

Well no child Left behind and the new policies made to deal with that mess do have a large effect. The federal government is trying to standardize education. Can't really pretend it's hands off and local.

The DOE sets minimum standards for curriculum and testing. Funding, hiring, salaries, facilities, safety, maintenance, class size, extracurriculars, equipment, etc. is all controlled at the district and school board level.

 

[Thunderflash500]

The DOE sets minimum standards for curriculum and testing. Funding, hiring, salaries, facilities, safety, maintenance, class size, extracurriculars, equipment, etc. is all controlled at the district and school board level.

If your local schools are ghetto as fuck, that's not the federal government's fault.

Lol ok. I won't disagree with this.

 

[JSN]

I doubt the k-12 schools are actually bad. Look at all the european countries and ask yourself how good their stat's would be if they had 35% of their population composed of poor assimilated minority groups.

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

Are American universities the best? Google tells me they seem to be, well they seem to have a lot of money so it follows i guess. If they started paying their athletes as they probably should you'd think they may not be so high up there.

My alma mater is 42nd in the world, below a lot of Yank unis.

 

[ajwbjj87]

George W Bush graduated from Yale... Ya let that sink in

 

[Deleted member 220895]

Because the universities are businesses. They have to sell themselves so they they are wanted. The more students enrolled, more money in the bank. All they have to do is act like they are the best, convince their alumni the same and BAM! you have a great university.

Why are the American schools with the best sports teams considered the best? Because they are the most well renowned because of their sports. Sure they have great programs, but they wouldn't be anywhere without their sports. The sports is half of the attraction.

Public schools aren't businesses. You don't see them being sold nor do many people outside the district brag if they are good or not. The sports teams are only supported by families and friends of the people playing (unless it's texas. which is very university-like with their football schools). Now private schools on the other hand... they are mini universities.

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

Because many students don't give a shit about education because it is not their culture. Period. No one will call it that out of feat of not being PC. It is a culture/value thing and not a skin color thing.
If you look up to ignorant gangsters and don't give a shit about school...then guess what??? It is teaching and learning not fucking magic.

Public schools here are fine. There are just more dumb motherfucking assholes than ever.

lol

 

[FrankensteinMMA]

because they are filled with jews and asians. they get to skip high school too.. I saw a youtube video about it...it must be true.

also....asians built a machine delfating the earth to make it flat
and the jews sold the moon to space mice who love cheese.

 

[JSN]

Why are the American schools with the best sports teams considered the best? Because they are the most well renowned because of their sports. Sure they have great programs, but they wouldn't be anywhere without their sports. The sports is half of the attraction.

wait wut? Do you honestly think people would rather go to Alabama or Florida State than Cal or Harvard?

 

[Deleted member 220895]

wait wut? Do you honestly think people would rather go to Alabama or Florida State than Cal or Harvard?

No and yes. Harvard and Cal obviously have better educational programs, but Alabama and Florida state attract more students. I think their sports programs are half the reason, and if it wasn't for their teams, their whole university wouldn't be as well regarded. As opposed to Harvard and Cal's teams aren't as successful and aren't the main attraction to their college.

 

[ehtheist]

Meh, saying "American universities are the best" is like saying "American beers are the best." There are some good ones - some awesome ones and, indeed, some of the best - but there is also a colossal amount of utter shit out there too.

 

[JSN]

No and yes. Harvard and Cal obviously have better educational programs, but Alabama and Florida state attract more students. I think their sports programs are half the reason, and if it wasn't for their teams, their whole university wouldn't be as well regarded. As opposed to Harvard and Cal's teams aren't as successful and aren't the main attraction to their college.

lol Alabama is bigger; it doesn't "attract more students." Many many more would apply to Harvard if they had a snowball's chance in hell of being accepted. Harvard could expand their enrollment if that was their goal and dwarf 'bama. Their endowment is in the neighborhood of two orders of magnitude larger so they're gonna do da do.

 

[Deleted member 220895]

lol Alabama is bigger; it doesn't "attract more students." Many many more would apply to Harvard if they had a snowball's chance in hell of being accepted. Harvard could expand their enrollment if that was their goal and dwarf 'bama. Their endowment is in the neighborhood of two orders of magnitude larger so they're gonna do da do.

Yeah you are right, its not Harvard's goal to expand like that. They care about quality over quantity in their student body. But a school like Alabama does and they use their numbers and teams to embellish how great it is (my original point).

 

[JSN]

Yeah you are right, its not Harvard's goal to expand like that. They care about quality over quantity in their student body. But a school like Alabama does and they use their numbers and teams to embellish how great it is (my original point).

I disagree with that though. Good sports programs often go hand in hand with being a flagship state school, but I doubt that's a huge driver in admissions. Having a large, well off former student body does allow the sports program to get better funding and having a partial imperative to serve as a training ground for the future workforce often means a large student body.

In the case of a world renowned public university like Michigan, Cal, or UVA people aren't applying from all over the world because they have a good football team. Hell, UM is the only one who generally even has a good football team.

With private schools there often isn't much going on with sports and people still are lining up to go to well regarded ones.

 

[Nomos]

I have a hard time commenting on this, since I'm married to a teacher who is the daughter of 2 teachers. I am thinking about teaching as well, just not sure I want to deal with the parents. Public education is falling into a massive rut where the helicopter parents are gaining more and more control of the classroom than the teachers have. Administrators are so afraid of a lawsuit or bad reputation due to low test scores, that they don't back up their teachers and let those parents have their way. My mother in law caught a student turning in an English assignment that was a verbatim copy of the Diablo game literature. She found the source material, printed it out, and highlighted where he copied. The parent complained and the principal made her give him a 2nd chance to come up with his own work. There were several instances where the principal's lack of spine nearly cost her her position, and she was national board certified.

I live in a college town and have employed dozens of college students. Every year, they seem to get dumber and dumber. The university is forcing them to take a class on how to be a college student. When I was in college, they didn't even tell you how to get registered, you had to figure that shit out on your own and this course teaches them how to take notes and how to study. The professors have no classroom discipline, the students don't even get out of their PJs to go to class, and they don't bother calling the professors by their title or last name, just their first name. I don't understand.

Not sure where all I was going with this, sorry for the ramble.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

As an European that thing always puzzled me. It's like when students make it to college they magically become gifted and shit.

Because Murican Unis are good for networking, nepotism, favoritism, and best at getting people to donate, or invest money in them, and making money for people via various means like construction, foodservice, school supplies, Real estate ( have you seen some of these college towns?), night life, TV advertising from sports, etc, etc, etc.

Now our schools are not so bad that not even a hand full of smarty pants can make it out. And those smarty pants can usually take advantage of opportunities that the Education industrial complex can provide. But really the vast majority of HS grads in Murica should not attend college.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

well, I mean Oxford exists.

In general its because americans are charged up the butt for uni, and tourist students are charged even more.
All the best teachers from all over the world therefore go to american schools

But there is a lot of crappy teachers there as well.