How come American universities are the best, but American schools are mediocre?

[MadSquabbles500]

I have a hard time commenting on this, since I'm married to a teacher who is the daughter of 2 teachers. I am thinking about teaching as well, just not sure I want to deal with the parents. Public education is falling into a massive rut where the helicopter parents are gaining more and more control of the classroom than the teachers have. Administrators are so afraid of a lawsuit or bad reputation due to low test scores, that they don't back up their teachers and let those parents have their way. My mother in law caught a student turning in an English assignment that was a verbatim copy of the Diablo game literature. She found the source material, printed it out, and highlighted where he copied. The parent complained and the principal made her give him a 2nd chance to come up with his own work. There were several instances where the principal's lack of spine nearly cost her her position, and she was national board certified.

I live in a college town and have employed dozens of college students. Every year, they seem to get dumber and dumber. The university is forcing them to take a class on how to be a college student. When I was in college, they didn't even tell you how to get registered, you had to figure that shit out on your own and this course teaches them how to take notes and how to study. The professors have no classroom discipline, the students don't even get out of their PJs to go to class, and they don't bother calling the professors by their title or last name, just their first name. I don't understand.

Not sure where all I was going with this, sorry for the ramble.

But the teachers were never that good to begin with, and being in box for like 50 min, and then moving to another box for another 50, rinse and repeat 6 times a day 5 times a week, for 10 months is simply not a good format.

You can only do so much as a teacher with that kind of format.

 

[Orgasmo]

Walk into the engineering department of Ivy League schools these days, and you better know how to speak Mandarin.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

eww no.

the best countries in the world have mainly public education.

GTFO of here suggesting all public education should be privatized.
Thats a straight path to a 5% literacy rate.

You can have privatization, and then have regulations, and laws in place to ensure high literacy rates, and math and science skills.

As for poor people, we already have welfare that helps them out with purchasing things from the private sector like food, and housing, so we can still do that for private schools too.

 

[Kraysla]

Universities get to weed out all the less talented students. And as someone else mentioned, grade schools and high schools are all different throughout the country.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

We already have private schools. The only thing making all schools private will do is price people out of an education. Sure, the schools will be great. But we will have even more dumbasses walking around than we already do, which in my opinion is too many.

We have expensive private schools and apparently they are really good because of lot of parents dont want to use the public sector schools that they feel are horrible. They are scared away so they are willing to pay up the wazoo for the private.

Now it be much harder to run a crappy private school, not impossible, but harder too stay in business. As long as the Gubment sets standards for the students, and the students must meet those standards, then the private will have to have those standards as well.

Of course, you can have higher standards for the public schools right now too, but apparently, nothing is happening, and our public schools suck.

 

[BoogerDawson]

Public schools in the suburbs can be pretty good. The better universities can be selective on who attends.

The inner city schools have students who for the most part just aren't interested in learning. There are discipline problems, and often the parents don't care. Education isn't valued as much. It's like High School High (Marion Barry High School).

 

[MadSquabbles500]

The public schools are not problematic because they are government run. The quality of the public schools vary greatly depending on their location. In fact having the government mandate a curriculum helps prevent schools from omitting things or teaching whatever they want, improving education to a certain extent. Affluent neighborhoods with high taxes and a good education budget have public schools that rank very high..... its the inner city schools that are usually horrible.

In those schools, many of the students attending have parents of low socioeconomic and educational background who don't care about how their kids do in school. As a result the teachers are basically glorified baby-sitter ring masters, wasting most of the day trying to keep the kids under control, which ruins the opportunity for any good students to learn. That combined with low education budgets in those areas makes good teachers go elsewhere, exacerbating the problem. It forces any parents who live in those areas and care about their kids education to either move to an area with a better school system (most likely with higher taxes), or pay to send their kids to a private school in the area.

In those high income areas most of the students dont all turn out to be Stephen Hawkins. For the vast majority of them whatever success they have later on would have been had with or without the high school curriculum and education.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Students who go to elite, or even decent, American colleges are basically college tracked from age 10. If you only looked at data from their experience in public schools, American public schools would look a lot better comparatively. I don't know if that indicates some kind of cooked books in other nations, or the competitive nature of American culture, but things are definitely sink or swim here.

Or cooked books in Murican HS transcripts.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Good schools are in high property tax zones so if you have no money, your kids' school is going suck. Privatizing would just make this worse as poor folk would have to pay for tuition on top of taxes and lots of kids wouldn't be in school at all.

It depends on the supply and demand too. HS, and middle school dont teach much in terms of skills needed to make money for many people, nor do many people even want to learn what is being taught in HS or Middle school.

Deregulate, and let people choose what they want, and who they want to learn from.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

The public schools get taxpayer funded and so their quality depends on the wealth of the surrounding neighborhood which for most neighborhoods in Murka is pretty low.

The colleges are ran like private businesses charging outrageous tuition rates and making money off their sports teams yet at the same time receive tons of federal and state funding so they attract better teachers and can offer better programs with all that cash flowing in.

NOt all the teachers, and a lot of their programs suck too.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

I don't have an opinion on this topic but it provides me the opportunity to post a Chris Rock quote from Bring the pain - 1996. I like all his stand up specials.

1. You know what the worst thing about Ninjas?
2. The WORST thing about Ninjas?!
3. Ninjas love to NOT know.
4. Nuttin' make a Ninja happier than not knowin the answer to your question.
5. Just ask a Ninja a question.
   Any Ninja!
6. Hey Ninja, what's the capitol of Zaire?
7. I don't know dat shit!
8. Keepin' it real!
9. (Laughter & applause)
10. Ninjas love to keep it real.
11. Real dumb!
12. Ninjas hate knowledge.
13. Shit. Ninjas break into your house you want to save your money?
14. Put it in your books.
15. Cuz Ninjas don't read.
16. Just put the money in the books.
17. Shit books are like Kryptonite to a Ninja

Why dont ninjas like knowledge?

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Because the universities are businesses. They have to sell themselves so they they are wanted. The more students enrolled, more money in the bank. All they have to do is act like they are the best, convince their alumni the same and BAM! you have a great university.

Why are the American schools with the best sports teams considered the best? Because they are the most well renowned because of their sports. Sure they have great programs, but they wouldn't be anywhere without their sports. The sports is half of the attraction.

Public schools aren't businesses. You don't see them being sold nor do many people outside the district brag if they are good or not. The sports teams are only supported by families and friends of the people playing (unless it's texas. which is very university-like with their football schools). Now private schools on the other hand... they are mini universities.

Actually for a while, it was at the point of the applicants having to sell themselves to the Uni.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Walk into the engineering department of Ivy League schools these days, and you better know how to speak Mandarin.

And Urdu.

 

[drstrangelov]

Or cooked books in Murican HS transcripts.

You think American schools are falsely reporting poor performance by students?

 

[Jumpy]

Usually, unless they are charter schools, then they also have "donated" money, usually from the parents of the students.

Most public schools in more affluent areas are pretty good. Charter and magnet public schools in inner cities are pretty good. It's the schools in the poor areas that get the bad rap... but really the teachers and facilities are better than one would think. It's the poverty and lack of willingness for the parents to care about their kids education that brings down the system.

The bold is where I disagree. Source: worked for a school system in Atlanta, mother also teaches teachers in Atlanta/Cobb County. These inner city schools are shit holes and MOST of the teachers are so sick of dealing with these ignorant and wild adolescents that they just don't give a fuck anymore. It's insane, because the vast majority of these little shits simply refuse care about their education--a result of their parents being raises similarly. A vicious cycle. What upsets me, more than the kids being little shit heads, are the parents and teachers lack of fucks given, because there are good kids that actually like to use their brain and want to break the cycle their families have thrown them into, but these good kids are a lot of the times swept under the rug. It's heart breaking, honestly.

edit: I'm talking elementary schools with metal detectors, cock roaches and rat shit in the cafeterias, 10 year olds being escorted to county jail, students fist fighting teachers, admin and police, jumping other students, gang fights, etc.

 

[MeatheadMike]

In those high income areas most of the students dont all turn out to be Stephen Hawkins. For the vast majority of them whatever success they have later on would have been had with or without the high school curriculum and education.

If that's what you believe, then you might as well move to an area with low taxes and send your kids to a low rated public school. Obviously most parents who have the money and the choice don't do that. Yea, a truly gifted kid would probably do well regardless, but attending a school that facilitates good learning will only help them along the way.

 

[MC Paul Barman]

As an European that thing always puzzled me. It's like when students make it to college they magically become gifted and shit.

American Universities are the best?? That's scary.
When I was a freshman at Marquette U I remember half of my class not knowing what a thesis statement in a paper was.

 

[Jack Reacheround]

because they are filled with jews and asians. they get to skip high school too.. I saw a youtube video about it...it must be true.

also....asians built a machine delfating the earth to make it flat
and the jews sold the moon to space mice who love cheese.

I've seen a lot of opinions on this matter. But this one is very obviously right.

 

[ROKKO]

Why dont ninjas like knowledge?

I'm unsure you'd have to query their sensei.

 

[hughesfan20]

Why dont ninjas like knowledge?

It's not cool to be educated, but you could say that about a lot of areas/races in America.