Hot take?: It's not my first choice, but I prefer Islam/Charles than Islam/Justin

[Morning Star]

Justin has definitely earned it. My issue with him getting another shot is he didn't earn the 2nd one and he'll go 0 for 3. Dude is terrible on the ground and Islam will absolutely get him there. Basically has a puncher's chance. LW is a log jam of rematches and uninteresting title matchups. Islam is so far ahead of the pack maybe he should get a crack at WW, unfortunately that's a logjam because the dumb as fuck Colby TS.

 

[Reptile_Bong_Hit]

For starters Charles was given 2 title shots as well but pulled out of one.

True, I certainly agree to an extent and recognize that the UFC doesn't owe anything outside of what is established in writing.

How can we say hes the best in the world under those conditions? What's wrong with making Charles get another win first and definitively earn it?

Just to clarify, I'd prefer if they just went with Islam/Arman II (another rematch, but warranted IMO).

And although Justin's last two are more impressive than Charles' last two (no debate), Charles has only lost once in the last 5 years and has a semi-recent victory (stoppage no less) over Justin as a title defense.

I definitely hear you brother, and agree in theory--because I also detest immediate rematches--but this is a unique situation where if it's not going to be Arman, then I prefer Charles over Justin.

 

[Reptile_Bong_Hit]

Justin has definitely earned it. My issue with him getting another shot is he didn't earn the 2nd one and he'll go 0 for 3. Dude is terrible on the ground and Islam will absolutely get him there. Basically has a puncher's chance. LW is a log jam of rematches and uninteresting title matchups. Islam is so far ahead of the pack maybe he should get a crack at WW, unfortunately that's a logjam because the dumb as fuck Colby TS.

Agreed. It's not so much that I'm campaigning for Charles as much as it's the lesser of two evils (Arman aside).

 

[RockyLockridge]

The issues for me are as follows:

1. Justin has had two title shots; Charles has only had one despite a legitimate title reign.


3. If Islam were a different flighting style, I could defiantly buy a title shot for Justin. While he had a couple moments against Khabib on the feet, Justin's ground game against looked like he never trained before. IMO, Islam's fighting style is similar enough to Khabib where I'm just not that interested with Arman and Charles are out there. I'm just not convinced Justin can keep it standing.

4. Islam isn't Khabib, but Charles was more competitive against Islam than Justin was against Khabib.

5. Arman arguably deserves a title shot; I'd rather him than Charles or Justin, but there's a very real possibility of Charles finishing Arman and then were left with Charles/Islam anyways.

Is this a hot take or legitimately debatable?

1. Justin has had two title shots; Charles has only had one despite a legitimate title reign.

FALSE. Charles had a second title shot when he fought Islam, Charles WAS NOT THE CHAMPION and as thus it was a vacant title fight, the second vacant title fight of his career.

2. Charles accomplished enough as champ (2 impressive defenses) IMO, to justify a rematch after one impressive victory.

FALSE. He has ONE defense, The gaethje fight is not a defense as charles missed weight. Also He was offered a rematch and turned it down.

3. If Islam were a different flighting style, I could defiantly buy a title shot for Justin. While he had a couple moments against Khabib on the feet, Justin's ground game against looked like he never trained before. IMO, Islam's fighting style is similar enough to Khabib where I'm just not that interested with Arman and Charles are out there. I'm just not convinced Justin can keep it standing.

Perhaps, but Charles has been finished/beaten badly on the ground many times in his career. Edgar, Felder, Islam, Pettis, Lamas and Miller all finished him on the ground. Charles is in every bit of danger on the ground as gaethje because defensively on the ground he has nothing for islam. you can watch the last fight to see how easily islam just imposed his will on him when it it the mat.
4. Islam isn't Khabib, but Charles was more competitive against Islam than Justin was against Khabib.

This is Just plain false, No one is scoring round 1 of that fight for Charles. where as at least Justin won round 1 against khabib.

5. Arman arguably deserves a title shot; I'd rather him than Charles or Justin, but there's a very real possibility of Charles finishing Arman and then were left with Charles/Islam anyways.

Sure.

 

[Shaddows]

Am I crazy, brothers?

First, let me grant the following:

1. (In a vacuum) Justin's last two wins are more impressive than Charles finish over Dariush.

2. Justin and Islam is technically a fresh match-up * more on this below.

3. Justin has more for Islam on the feet than Charles.

4. Charles pulled out due to injury.

The issues for me are as follows:

1. Justin has had two title shots; Charles has only had one despite a legitimate title reign.

2. Charles accomplished enough as champ (2 impressive defenses) IMO, to justify a rematch after one impressive victory.

3. If Islam were a different flighting style, I could defiantly buy a title shot for Justin. While he had a couple moments against Khabib on the feet, Justin's ground game against looked like he never trained before. IMO, Islam's fighting style is similar enough to Khabib where I'm just not that interested with Arman and Charles are out there. I'm just not convinced Justin can keep it standing.

4. Islam isn't Khabib, but Charles was more competitive against Islam than Justin was against Khabib.

5. Arman arguably deserves a title shot; I'd rather him than Charles or Justin, but there's a very real possibility of Charles finishing Arman and then were left with Charles/Islam anyways.

Is this a hot take or legitimately debatable?

Well, I disagree with you.
In a time where the UFC allows fighters to sit and wait for their next (undeserving) title shot, Charles fought the only other guy in their division that deserved a title shot; which is Beneil, a guy on an 8 fights win streak and looking like a contender.
IMHO Charles should get his (well deserving) rematch next (and hopefully this time on neutral territory...or in Brazil, if we REALY want to be fair.!).

 

[Goutfather]

if beneil dooshiush was going to get a shot after beating charles, it’s entirely appropriate to give charles another shot. i also feel bad for charles because the ufc kinda did him dirty, stripping him over allegedly missing weight by .5 lb, especially given the scale shenanigans ufc has allowed from others.

but i also like justin, and he’s an exciting fighter who has some weapons that could win the fight. and he kinda has a point about charles not showing up. yes, i know that injuries happen, but how long is everyone supposed to wait for a rematch? part of the rationale for a rematch is that “no one else” from the top of the division is available, which was true when the islam vs olives 2 was booked (c’mon, why else would beneil dariush be considered for a shot?). it was definitely an opportunity for olives based on the state of the division at that moment. well, now someone else has done enough to earn a shot, and he’s ready. and it’s not a rematch. so overall, there’s a better case for giving justin a shot.

so it looks like olives had some bad luck. it does suck for him, but that’s life. it was fortunate that no one else had a claim to a title shot when he beat beneil, and it was unfortunate that he lost his title shot due to an injury. if he takes another fight and wins, it will be harder to move past him in considering the next shot. also, if justin happens to beat islam, olives has a great claim to that rematch.

 

[Reptile_Bong_Hit]

FALSE. Charles had a second title shot when he fought Islam, Charles WAS NOT THE CHAMPION and as thus it was a vacant title fight, the second vacant title fight of his career.

100% correct, but based on a technicality that I personally don't care about (0.5 lbs or something?) but I respect that others might.

FALSE. He has ONE defense, The gaethje fight is not a defense as charles missed weight. Also He was offered a rematch and turned it down.

See above.

...Charles is in every bit of danger on the ground as gaethje because defensively on the ground he has nothing for islam. you can watch the last fight to see how easily islam just imposed his will on him when it it the mat.

Probably a touch hyperbolic but once Islam rocked him in the second it was smooth sailing on the ground. Before that, Islam could not get much going on the ground at all. Granted, he was winning, but Charles is only looking for an opportunistic finish anyways (and to make Islam uncomfortable/work).

This is Just plain false, No one is scoring round 1 of that fight for Charles. where as at least Justin won round 1 against khabib.

100% correct if going round by round. Looking at the fight holistically, however, I have to disagree. In any case, I recognize this is debatable.

 

[GraafschapDTCNL]

Honestly, it is very difficult for me to understand that people would not want to see Oliveira have another crack. The only real argument is that Gaehtje is a fresh match up. Well, if that is what is important, throw me in there.

My observations:

- Oliveira is a better fighter than Gaehtje.
- Oliveira was a dominant champion that gave us some ridiculous fights. Deserves a rematch for sure, especially after doing that to Dariush
-:Oliveira is more entertaining imo than Gaehtje (subjective I know).
- Oliveira has a better ground game.

 

[josh345]

Anyone saying "Gaethje has nothing for Islam" after watching Strickland school Izzy is out of their minds.

Yeah you never know what the hell is going to happen in mma. There is a reason champs don't defend as much as they used too. Competition has gotten steeper.

 

[DarthChen731]

Yeah you never know what the hell is going to happen in mma. There is a reason champs don't defend as much as they used too. Competition has gotten steeper.

Between individual styles and really great coaching you just never know in a 1 vs 1 anymore. Like, Usman was beating Leon until the killshot, and in the rematch Leon basically ran away with it.

 

[Furious77]

Rewatch it. If you still think it was a massacre then we just have different ideas about when a fighter is still competitive and when they're not.

First off using words like massacre is crazy lol. That's not what I said. However it was completely 1 sided still after rewatching it. Charles biggest moment was getting up from a takedown and then immediately getting took back down. I didn't see any significant strikes. I guess a grazing up kick when he was on his back. I guarantee you a light sparring session at AKA is more competitive than this fight was. I definitely didn't see ANYTHING that warrants a rematch. You are more than welcome to provide a time stamp if I missed something.

 

[Kryptt]

Nope I agree, Rather Charles than Justin...

 

[Azure]

Justin has a better shot against Leon than Islam

 

[don't ask]

First off using words like massacre is crazy lol. That's not what I said.

Blowout. I should have said blowout.

However it was completely 1 sided still after rewatching it. Charles biggest moment was getting up from a takedown and then immediately getting took back down. I didn't see any significant strikes. I guess a grazing up kick when he was on his back. I guarantee you a light sparring session at AKA is more competitive than this fight was. I definitely didn't see ANYTHING that warrants a rematch. You are more than welcome to provide a time stamp if I missed something.

If you think it was a blowout, then you and I have different opinions about what a competitive fight is.

 

[Furious77]

Blowout. I should have said blowout.



If you think it was a blowout, then you and I have different opinions about what a competitive fight is.

Fair enough, I said it was a completely 1 side fight and I stand by that. I did rewatch it to make sure I didn't miss anything, I don't believe I did. I certainly didn't see anything that would warrant a rematch. Not a blowout or a massacre, but it certainly wasn't a competitive fight.

 

[don't ask]

I said it was a completely 1 side fight and I stand by that. I did rewatch it to make sure I didn't miss anything, I don't believe I did. I certainly didn't see anything that would warrant a rematch. Not a blowout or a massacre, but it certainly wasn't a competitive fight.

I said it wasn't the complete blowout people think it was and you said, "yes it was".

Learn how words work.

 

[ipowerslapmywife]

Justin had the most success against Khabib out of anybody. I don't agree at all that Charles did better against Islam in comparison.
I'm not opposed to either scenario, but lean more towards getting a fresh face in there.

Conor had the most success against Khabib besides Tibau

 

[Trabaho]

Can you not write hot take next time. I get you want some replies.

 

[Kb7]

w

1 title shot against a champ, 2 title shots against no champ. And, even so, he still deserves to fight for the belt more than anyone in the division. Because... he did more. That's basic.

But of course this doesn't fit in your narrative, right? The only sense is making no sense at all lol.

He did more? By missing weight and getting stripped? Or you mean beating Dariush? Who just got obliterated faster and more impressvily by Arman? While Charles had his rematch set with Makhachev, Oliveira again showed why he doesnt get another title unless he wins another fight, from missing weight to being a idiot prior to one of rhe biggest digbts in his career.

 

[Kb7]

Conor had the most success against Khabib besides Tibau

Success in what? Surviving? Conor had no offense or had Khabib in trouble non whatsoever. That 3rd round that Conor “won” is a sham.