Hot take?: It's not my first choice, but I prefer Islam/Charles than Islam/Justin

[Substance Abuse]

Whatever gets us to Islam/Tsarukyan sooner rather than later.

 

[Psychojoe86]

Gaethje has 2 recent wins… against strikers. Has not shown he can handle the grappling threat Islam possesses.

Poirer was the same way.

IMO these two will continue to lose title fights against elite grappling beasts because they have long known they can’t improve that area of their kits.

Oliveira is better and should fight for the belt since he’s a tougher fight for Makachev.

 

[Nobru]

Am I crazy, brothers?

First, let me grant the following:

1. (In a vacuum) Justin's last two wins are more impressive than Charles finish over Dariush.

2. Justin and Islam is technically a fresh match-up * more on this below.

3. Justin has more for Islam on the feet than Charles.

4. Charles pulled out due to injury.

The issues for me are as follows:

1. Justin has had two title shots; Charles has only had one despite a legitimate title reign.

2. Charles accomplished enough as champ (2 impressive defenses) IMO, to justify a rematch after one impressive victory.

3. If Islam were a different flighting style, I could defiantly buy a title shot for Justin. While he had a couple moments against Khabib on the feet, Justin's ground game against looked like he never trained before. IMO, Islam's fighting style is similar enough to Khabib where I'm just not that interested with Arman and Charles are out there. I'm just not convinced Justin can keep it standing.

4. Islam isn't Khabib, but Charles was more competitive against Islam than Justin was against Khabib.

5. Arman arguably deserves a title shot; I'd rather him than Charles or Justin, but there's a very real possibility of Charles finishing Arman and then were left with Charles/Islam anyways.

Is this a hot take or legitimately debatable?

my cents:

Charles recently beat Justin
Justin beat Dustin, which Charles also did.
For the above reasons, Justin cant be ahead of Charles for a TS, IMHO.

Arman can fight Dustin, which would be a good fight, while Justin waits for the winner of Islam x Charles II.

 

[Laheys'Liquorland]

Charley don't wanna fight.

 

[don't ask]

Lmao yes it was. What fight were you watching?

Rewatch it. If you still think it was a massacre then we just have different ideas about when a fighter is still competitive and when they're not.

 

[Reptile_Bong_Hit]

No clue why they didn’t have Gamrot face Islam last time when he was the official replacement and weighed in, but business is business. Arman vs Islam is my dream matchup, and I hope they don’t feed the former to Charles beforehand.

It's ironic because the reason why I prefer Charles over latter is partly because I want fresh match-ups.

I think Islam/Justin is basically a foregone conclusion; and Charles/Arman is approximately 50/50.

Can you imagine if we lost Islam/Dariush AND Islam/Arman II because Charles iced both of them? Then we still get Islam/Charles II and the latter will have even more mileage.

 

[TheBulge]

I’d prefer Charles get his rematch first. There are a few reasons for that. He earned it by beating Dariush. Unfortunately he got that nasty cut. It never would have been healed enough. He may not have even been cleared to fight. Or if he did one strike could have opened it right up again.

As for Justin.. Him saying “Charles didn’t show up” is extremely disrespectful, imo. Injuries happen in mma. And the way he sat out about a year renegotiating his contract. Then wanted another immediate TS just because Khabib was gone. The guy has turned into an entitled clown since that Khabib fight.

So, I’d rather see Charles get his rematch first.

Just my opinion.

Justin is still very salty about that loss to Charles. Because of the way it went down.

He had a big mouth all camp claiming Charles can't overcome adversity, that he'll just smash him standing. Then they fought and Charles overcame adversity, smashed Justin standing and beat the fight out of him finishing him in striking as well as grappling.

It still stings to this day.

 

[LindyBrah]

It's ironic because the reason why I prefer Charles over latter is partly because I want fresh match-ups.

I think Islam/Justin is basically a foregone conclusion; and Charles/Arman is approximately 50/50.

Can you imagine if we lost Islam/Dariush AND Islam/Arman II because Charles iced both of them? Then we still get Islam/Charles II and the latter will have even more mileage.

I believe Poirier is more “one dimensional” than Gaethje is. Poirier was down two rounds into the third with Chandler, while Gaethje held his own and reversed position as they slugged it out. Justin has a real chance at KOing Islam after stifling his movement with those kicks. Charles can wait a bit longer.

 

[Reptile_Bong_Hit]

Rewatch it. If you still think it was a massacre then we just have different ideas about when a fighter is still competitive and when they're not.

Amen

I needed to see it a second time to realize that it was fairly competitve until the very end. Islam got takedowns but couldn't do much on the ground until the very end. Plus, half the takedowns were based on unforced errors.

 

[Reptile_Bong_Hit]

I actually agree. All Gaethje has is the low kick. That's a pretty thin line of defense against someone like Islam.

(If Charles wasn't around, why not. But from a sporting perspective, I wouldn't push Gaethje over Oli.)

Agreed. I think Charles has more tools on the feet than Justin, but I do think Justin is more dangerous on the feet (though not overall because Charles is a far more complete fighter).

 

[don't ask]

Amen

I needed to see it a second time to realize that it was fairly competitve until the very end. Islam got takedowns but couldn't do much on the ground until the very end. Plus, half the takedowns were based on unforced errors.

lol I'm not used to seeing people be reasonable on the internet. Am I having a stroke?

I had the exact same opinion as you until I rewatched it. I think I just absorbed the popular narrative on this fourm.

 

[Question]

Honestly, I don't care much who is next for islam as long as it is booked soon. Islam fought for like 2 minutes in the last 11 months or so, and he took no punches in that fight. Just book him asap against any top lightweight and I'll be happy

This^
Hopefully march, but at the latest it should be early summer(June). The division has a few contenders lined up right now and from what I understand all parties are healthy enough to fight within the following months in the first quarter of 2024.
Arman, Justin and Oli are all solid options. While Islam throws down with one of them, the other two can fight it out to determine the next challenger(on the same card as the co-main would be ideal)

 

[Reptile_Bong_Hit]

I believe Poirier is more “one dimensional” than Gaethje is. Poirier was down two rounds into the third with Chandler, while Gaethje held his own and reversed position as they slugged it out. Justin has a real chance at KOing Islam after stifling his movement with those kicks. Charles can wait a bit longer.

I agree that Justin is the most dangerous on the feet (even though I think Charles has more tools). The issues with Charles is poor defense; and Justin is very effective with his striking--if he keeps it standing.

IMO, the only things I think Justin does better than Poirier is kicking and wrestling. Justin is a far superior wrestler, but his BJJ isn't as good as DP's. I also think Justin's chin could be better at this point too, but can't say for sure.

I'd rather Islam fight Justin than DP at this point of course.

 

[blaseblase]

1. Justin has had two title shots; Charles has only had one despite a legitimate title reign.

For starters Charles was given 2 title shots as well but pulled out of one.

Gaethje is the more interesting matchup and a better addition to Islam's resume. Having the champ face the same guy over and over again leads to a record that doesn't look as good in retrospect. Look at Cain who fought the same 2 guys as champion.

You are proposing that Islam's first 4 title fights be against the same 2 opponents, one of whom isnt even a lightweight. How can we say hes the best in the world under those conditions? What's wrong with making Charles get another win first and definitively earn it?

 

[jitzmonkey]

Justin just beat two high level contenders in a row while Charles is 1-1 in his last 2 ** let Charles sit or better yet take out another high ranked contender coming off a win (I’m a winners should fight winners and losers should fight losers to make room in the rankings kind of guy.)

Justin had the most success against Khabib out of anybody. I don't agree at all that Charles did better against Islam in comparison.
I'm not opposed to either scenario, but lean more towards getting a fresh face in there

Bingo!
Gaethje was chewing up Khabib’s leg until the former champ made a masterful adjustment in his footwork.
While it was as simple as moving more methodically, it doesn’t change the fact that Gaethje was landing very well until Khabib altered his tact.

 

[Pious Augustus]

Am I crazy, brothers?

First, let me grant the following:

1. (In a vacuum) Justin's last two wins are more impressive than Charles finish over Dariush.

2. Justin and Islam is technically a fresh match-up * more on this below.

3. Justin has more for Islam on the feet than Charles.

4. Charles pulled out due to injury.

The issues for me are as follows:

1. Justin has had two title shots; Charles has only had one despite a legitimate title reign.

2. Charles accomplished enough as champ (2 impressive defenses) IMO, to justify a rematch after one impressive victory.

3. If Islam were a different flighting style, I could defiantly buy a title shot for Justin. While he had a couple moments against Khabib on the feet, Justin's ground game against looked like he never trained before. IMO, Islam's fighting style is similar enough to Khabib where I'm just not that interested with Arman and Charles are out there. I'm just not convinced Justin can keep it standing.

4. Islam isn't Khabib, but Charles was more competitive against Islam than Justin was against Khabib.

5. Arman arguably deserves a title shot; I'd rather him than Charles or Justin, but there's a very real possibility of Charles finishing Arman and then were left with Charles/Islam anyways.

Is this a hot take or legitimately debatable?

Charles had 3 title shots, one against Chandler and the 2nd against Islam for the vacant belt, the 3rd he pulled out of.

 

[blaseblase]

Gaethje for title shot, Oliviera vs Arman for number one contender is what makes the most sense.

 

[chinarice]

Islam beats Gaethje...

Becomes 155 and BMF Champ. Goes up to challenge Leon with a chance to become triple champ...

Becomes BMF champ and triple champ just from beating Leon, not Justin. Leon is the lineal BMF champ.

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

For a dude who has only fought Volk for the entire time he's been a champ, i do not care who he fights, it just needs to be a LW, or a back up LW fighter, that's it. he needs to fight anyone at LW. the versions he fought before are not the same. the new 2024 no USADA lightweights on equal footing to his exemptions and approved/not approved hidden medications that the commissions cover. charles, gaethje, chandler, tsaruykyan, whoever, just fight at LW already. no more champ champ, no more S000P3R, just lightweight, and preferrably not at Abu Dhabi the desert. It needs to be in the US.

 

[Sincere Guy]

Charles had 3 title shots, one against Chandler and the 2nd against Islam for the vacant belt, the 3rd he pulled out of.

1 title shot against a champ, 2 title shots against no champ. And, even so, he still deserves to fight for the belt more than anyone in the division. Because... he did more. That's basic.

But of course this doesn't fit in your narrative, right? The only sense is making no sense at all lol.