Hollande: Anti-Muslim, anti-Semitic acts must be punished

[grimballer]

Jews can also be a race. And are

They use DNA testing in Israel for f#cks sakes!

The Asheknazi Supremacist executive government who is currently running Israel are primarily AGNOSTICS yet they practice racial supremacy based off their "Jewishness" and the color of their skin.

They were sterilizing Blacks in Israel for god sakes so as to not allow "unfit" genes into the gene pool of Jewish society.

n whats the color of "jewish skin"?

in other words its white supremacism with hebrew twist on it.

im sure if a white guy goes there n his name is berg or levy, he wont be sterilized.

 

[Rod1]

It's certainly not the same Rod1, because Muslim and Christian are defined *intrinsically* by belief. If you don't believe in the religion, you aren't a Muslim or Christian. Period. If you do believe in the religion, you are a Muslim or Christian. Period.

Im not saying its the same, im just saying that the metric he was using "choice" was wrong because jew is an identity, and one can choose to identify as something or not.

You can be Jewish by conversion, though it's relatively rarely, in which case your identity as a Jew reflects your religious belief. But the vast majority of Jews are identified as Jews, and identity themselves as Jews, independent of whether they believe in the religion. So the identity is a complex hybrid.

They are identified as jews based on cultural things that can be changed.

Your quote of Goering is exactly the point. When Goering said he decided who was a Jew, the reason is that *he decided who was a Jew irrespective of what that particular 'Jew' felt, claimed, or believed*. It didn't matter if they were atheist. It didn't matter if they were Christian! If they were seen as "members of the Jewish race," no matter how ill-defined category that was, they were subjected to bitter sanctions. You could not convert away from Judaism, by Goering's lights. This is not to say that Judaism is some sort of magically defined absolutist 'race,' but rather that it is an identity that exists apart from religious belief. One might well say it's lame or foolish to identify people as a group in that essentialist way ... sure ... but that's the way it's done, both by Jews and by those who hate Jews.

Im not saying that jew is similar to religion, im just saying that "jew" is not an unavoidable trait like race.

A jew can easily stop being a jew, a black person cant escape being black.

 

[Zankou]

I agree it's *less* intractable than black racial identity. And it's a very messy identity. But it's still pretty damn sticky. Hard to un-Judaize in the racial and ethnic sense, any more than a Japanese person could un-Japanize. It's actually interesting how that has changed through history, but that's a topic that you could write volumes on.

Btw, also quite hard to un-Muslimize, but for religious reasons ... Islam does not take kindly to apostates.

 

[grimballer]

Im not saying its the same, im just saying that the metric he was using "choice" was wrong because jew is an identity, and one can choose to identify as something or not.



They are identified as jews based on cultural things that can be changed.



Im not saying that jew is similar to religion, im just saying that "jew" is not an unavoidable trait like race.

A jew can easily stop being a jew, a black person cant escape being black.

a reason why jews are viewed more than a religion is their jewish identity n allegiance to isreal. many jews born n raised in other countries have isreali passport n serve in isreali army. many jews are basically doing the same thing muslims are doing by joining isis, however nobody preventing them from joining n serving in a foreign nation.

also while many jews claim to be atheists or agnostic, they fully support isreal n crimes committed in gaza.

 

[IDL]

n considering jews a race is a stretch.

they are ethnoreligious group.

dont think shia laboeuf is still considered jew after converting to christianity.

Converting to Christianity is probably a good way to fall from grace, but there are Jewish Christians who still identify as Jews (just not in the full sense)

A member of the tribe of Judea (blood lines), who follows Christian beliefs. It's not mutually exclusive, but it is confusing and not too common all the same.

 

[IDL]

a reason why jews are viewed more than a religion is their jewish identity n allegiance to isreal. many jews born n raised in other countries have isreali passport n serve in isreali army. many jews are basically doing the same thing muslims are doing by joining isis, however nobody preventing them from joining n serving in a foreign nation.

also while many jews claim to be atheists or agnostic, they fully support isreal n crimes committed in gaza.

Yes in some cases Jews can be considered a race (distinct genetic people), a tribe, a religion, and a nationality (Israel as a people regardless of location, or scattered nation) all at the same time.

I'd say it is one of the more complex identities out there.

 

[grimballer]

Converting to Christianity is probably a good way to fall from grace, but there are Jewish Christians who still identify as Jews (just not in the full sense)

A member of the tribe of Judea (blood lines), who follows Christian beliefs. It's not mutually exclusive, but it is confusing and not too common all the same.

arent christian essentially jews?

jesus was self proclaimed "king of jews" n jews rejected him.

so christans are jews following jesus, instead of old scriptures.

isnt jersusalem n isreal also supposed to be holy land for christans as well? many actually do travel to isreal to visit.

 

[weed]

my barber is Tajikistan Jewish but tells me all the time how he gets looked down upon by Israeli folk. that seems royally fucked up & he hardly has anything nice to say about Jewish folk that aren't from Tajikistan/Russian.

 

[James Keith]

A person who says Jews have large noses isn't insulting religious beliefs.

 

[IDL]

arent christian essentially jews?

jesus was self proclaimed "king of jews" n jews rejected him.

so christans are jews following jesus, instead of old scriptures.

isnt jersusalem n isreal also supposed to be holy land for christans as well? many actually do travel to isreal to visit.

I don't think Jews consider Christians as Jews, but I don't know what Christians see themselves as, besides followers of Jesus.

It isn't my understanding that Christians see themselves as Jews but I would have to defer to someone more knowledgeable in Christian identities.

There are the Black Hebrew Israelites but they are an exception.

 

[James Keith]

arent christian essentially jews?

jesus was self proclaimed "king of jews" n jews rejected him.

so christans are jews following jesus, instead of old scriptures.

isnt jersusalem n isreal also supposed to be holy land for christans as well? many actually do travel to isreal to visit.

Sort of. Christians see their religion as Judaism with a bunch of new teachings. But Jews always seemed to see themselves as a particular ethnic group they were born into, whereas Christianity was always based on recruiting and joining (for example Baptism).

 

[Deleted member 159002]

Judaism, as praticed today, is the religion of the rabbis who wrote the Babylonian Talmud.

 

[Balto]

There is as of yet, however, no 'atheist Muslim,' any more than there are 'atheist Christians.' The essence of the identity remains belief, such that if you have the belief you are the identity, and if you don't have it, you aren't.

The problem is that you are considering self-identification. But what really matters in the real world for racial/ethnic discrimination is what society identifies you as, not what you identify yourself as.

It's not about your beliefs when the TSA pulls you out of line for secondary screening. It's not about your beliefs when you have to walk around on the street after 09/11 and people stare at you.

I knew a guy who was a North African Christian. Society sure viewed him as Muslim though when they saw him in an airport, on a train, etc. I mean that guy could have a bomb. He just looks like a Muslim extremist.

After 09/11, Sikhs were attacked for looking Muslim. Obviously their beliefs are totally different. But they look close enough to Muslims to attract hate crimes from racists.

There is definitely a pretty significant racial component to being Muslim in the West.

I am a white dude. When I walk around with a Jewish friend, society is not viewing us as white + Jewish. We are just two regular white dudes. Nobody knows he is Jewish unless they get to know him personally.

When I walk around with a Muslim friend, everyone sees us as white + Muslim. It's just a social inference that happens instantly, unconsciously, by just about everyone.

 

[JasonTodd]

Paris - French President Francois Hollande insisted on Thursday that any anti-Muslim or anti-Semitic acts must be "severely punished," as he sought to calm rising religious tensions after his country's bloodiest terrorist attacks in decades.

What about anti-Christians attacks like what happened in Paris?

Would the French president be okay with this protest going on in his country?
http://youtu.be/psZBaJU_Cvo

 

[Balto]

arent christian essentially jews?

jesus was self proclaimed "king of jews" n jews rejected him.

so christans are jews following jesus, instead of old scriptures.

isnt jersusalem n isreal also supposed to be holy land for christans as well? many actually do travel to isreal to visit.

Jesus and all the earliest Christians were Jewish. But they were a relatively small group as far as we know.

Most of the growth of Christianity was among Gentiles. This was initially the population of the Roman Empire, the vast majority of which was pagan, not Jewish. The next growth was among pagan people in Europe -- again not Jewish. And lastly you have colonial growth among pagan people from the Americas and various other areas colonized by Europeans. They were also not Jewish.

So the vast majority of people currently Christian now probably did not have Jewish ancestors. Most likely they would at some point have pagan ancestors. The Roman Empire would have converted somewhere around 300 AD, the rest of Europe in the Middle Ages, and then the European colonies during the time period after Columbus.

And yes, Jerusalem and Israel is the Holy Land for Christians as well. There are some pretty important Christian landmarks in Jerusalem like the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.

 

[MicroBrew]

I agree it's *less* intractable than black racial identity. And it's a very messy identity. But it's still pretty damn sticky. Hard to un-Judaize in the racial and ethnic sense, any more than a Japanese person could un-Japanize. It's actually interesting how that has changed through history, but that's a topic that you could write volumes on.

Btw, also quite hard to un-Muslimize, but for religious reasons ... Islam does not take kindly to apostates.

It baffles me when people claim Judaism is just a religion, when clearly it is an ethno-religion and Jews themselves see themselves as a distinct 'racial' group.

Not racial in the sense of Caucasoid,Negroid or Mongoloid but more as a distinct genetic group within Caucasoids that traces its origins to Semitic speakers in the Levant.

An old friend of mine was half Jewish and he identified as half Jewish despite not being religious . How can one one be half Judaism if it is just religious identity.

As mentioned Israeli scientists even genetically tested certain Jewish groups like the Bene Menashe (Indians from North-East India) and Beta Israel (Ethiopian Jews) to see if they had MiddleEastern origins because while they underwent Orthodox conversion to Judaism (in Israel) their Jewish origins were called into question.

 

[Gervinho]

Its amazing how you cant criticize people for their actions, but hey its perfectly ok to criticize their religions book. Saying Jews has too much power in western politics and media is seen as anti semits even though its 100% correct. So we should just pretend all the shit jews does behind the scenes is not happening?

 

[grimballer]

Its amazing how you cant criticize people for their actions, but hey its perfectly ok to criticize their religions book. Saying Jews has too much power in western politics and media is seen as anti semits even though its 100% correct. So we should just pretend all the shit jews does behind the scenes is not happening?

what about gays n blacks?

 

[Zankou]

The problem is that you are considering self-identification. But what really matters in the real world for racial/ethnic discrimination is what society identifies you as, not what you identify yourself as.

It's not about your beliefs when the TSA pulls you out of line for secondary screening. It's not about your beliefs when you have to walk around on the street after 09/11 and people stare at you.

I knew a guy who was a North African Christian. Society sure viewed him as Muslim though when they saw him in an airport, on a train, etc. I mean that guy could have a bomb. He just looks like a Muslim extremist.

After 09/11, Sikhs were attacked for looking Muslim. Obviously their beliefs are totally different. But they look close enough to Muslims to attract hate crimes from racists.

There is definitely a pretty significant racial component to being Muslim in the West.

I am a white dude. When I walk around with a Jewish friend, society is not viewing us as white + Jewish. We are just two regular white dudes. Nobody knows he is Jewish unless they get to know him personally.

When I walk around with a Muslim friend, everyone sees us as white + Muslim. It's just a social inference that happens instantly, unconsciously, by just about everyone.

I am arguing the opposite. If somebody says they aren't a Muslim, they're not a Muslim. I would think somebody an idiot of the highest caliber if they think an Egyptian Coptic Christian, or a Lebanese Maronite, is a "Muslim" (except in a very complex theological sense I won't bore everybody with ... ). 99.999% of people would think the same. They might *initially assume a copt is Muslim based on looks*, but if the person told them they were Christian, they wouldn't somehow think that's impossible or a contradiction, ZOMG a Middle Eastern Christian, nobody has ever heard of such a thing. There are assloads of Middle Eastern Christians. Millions. I really don't believe there's anybody so ignorant as to insist they are actually Muslim, even when they are claiming to be Christian.

Everybody is quite spectacularly clear that if they follow non-Muslim religions they aren't Muslim. Including those Muslims who, under the guise of takfir, are furiously identifying non-Muslims and slaying them by the assload as we speak. Even when they self-identify as Muslim, such as Shiites/Alawites/Ahmadi etc. Muslims themselves are quite monumentally clear that being Muslim is defined by your *religious belief*, not by ethnicity or race.

Witness the Western furor over the Muslim decimation of Christians in the Middle East right now. It's not like people's heads are exploding "wait, how can there be Christians in the Middle East, they are the Muslim race, who are these Christian Muslims." The whole idea of "Christian Muslim" is laughably, laughably ridiculous. And that's because everybody knows these are religions, not an intractable ethnic identity + a religious belief.

So yeah, you're certainly correct that people often *assume* your average Middle Easterner is Muslim. Statistics. But you can't take that assumption and then assume that people go around assuming there is a "Muslim identity" which attaches to individuals apart from their religious beliefs. They are just *assuming* the person probably holds Muslim religious beliefs. If it turns out they don't, they plainly aren't Muslim. Likewise, when a white guy turns out to be Muslim (like one of the guys I train judo with), it's somewhat surprising, but if the guy is serious then not for an instant does anybody then think "you are actually not a Muslim." That would be sensationally offensive and ludicrous.

I will grant that most people seem to think Sikhs are Muslims, and that's largely because nobody knows what Sikhs are, they think they are a variety of Muslim like Sunni/Shiite/Sikh/Sufi etc. This is pretty sad since Sikhism is a really cool religion that deserves more press.

 

[Erik Freydis]

Its amazing how you cant criticize people for their actions, but hey its perfectly ok to criticize their religions book. Saying Jews has too much power in western politics and media is seen as anti semits even though its 100% correct. So we should just pretend all the shit jews does behind the scenes is not happening?

Agreed. Jews openly brag about how they run the media, banks, Hollywood, influence governments etc but the second one of the goyim opens their eyes and says the same thing they are labelled an anti-Semite, racist, Nazi and have the ADL baying for their blood.

To know the truth about Judaism just look at their "holy" days commemorating their bloody victories over the gentiles or "goys". Passover, commemorating the murder of Egyptian first born, Hanukkah is a celebration of the genocide of Greeks, Purim is a celebration of the mass murder of innocent Persians, and the list goes on and on.

And Israel, well where do you start there with so many atrocities and hatred to choose from.

But dare mention any of this and you're in big, big trouble. I think Voltaire said it best "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."