Hollande: Anti-Muslim, anti-Semitic acts must be punished

[JonesBones]

One is an immutable characteristic while the other is not. You can choose your religion, not your race.

But that says nothing about its merits. I don't know if murder is nature or nurture. A choice or destiny, but we consider it wrong. Where it came from is irrelevant. One should be able to criticize anything that exists. The origins of something say nothing of its value, and do not justify anything.

 

[BKMMAFAN]

But that says nothing about its merits. I don't know if murder is nature or nurture. A choice or destiny, but we consider it wrong. Where it came from is irrelevant. One should be able to criticize anything that exists. The origins of something say nothing of its value, and do not justify anything.

I agree, he asked what the difference was and I pointed it out.

 

[grimballer]

Not against religions.

guess again

The hate speech laws in France are matters of both civil law and criminal law. Those laws protect individuals and groups from being defamed or insulted because they belong or do not belong, in fact or in fancy, to an ethnicity, a nation, a race, a religion, a sex, or a sexual orientation, or because they have a handicap. The laws forbid any communication which is intended to incite discrimination against, hatred of, or harm to, anyone because of his belonging or not belonging, in fact or in fancy, to an ethnicity, a nation, a race, a religion, a sex, or a sexual orientation, or because he or she has a handicap.

 

[Rod1]

I agree, he asked what the difference was and I pointed it out.

Judaism is not a race its an ethnic identity, one which can easily be removed by the individual in question, jews, depending on their background can easily pass for other ethnic groups of similar backgrounds if they decide so.

Genetically middle-eastern jews are virtually indistinguishable from lebanese and palestinians.

 

[BKMMAFAN]

what does it matter?

what youre saying is 99.9% of muslim should get punished for the action of 0.01%

im sure there are 0.01% asshole jews, so does that justify anti-jewish views?

I pointed out a difference between race and religion (even though 'Jewish' is not a race).

The problem with Islam and the modern world is that its 'extreme' views really aren't that extreme when one looks at the actual polls and data available. Large portions of the Muslim world believe in death for apostasy, blasphemy, adultery etc...

As you can see, sizable percentages of persons in many countries support policies and punishments that are completely incompatible with the values of a free, open society. Whereas only .01% of Muslims may actually carry out heinous acts of violence against perceived infidels, what is more disconcerting to many is how extreme the views of a moderate Muslim are.

 

[grimballer]

I agree, he asked what the difference was and I pointed it out.

n considering jews a race is a stretch.

they are ethnoreligious group.

dont think shia laboeuf is still considered jew after converting to christianity.

 

[BKMMAFAN]

n considering jews a race is a stretch.

they are ethnoreligious group.

dont think shia laboeuf is still considered jew after converting to christianity.

It's not even a stretch, it's flat out wrong. I was merely stating that there is a difference, strictly speaking, between race and religion inasmuch that one is an immutable characteristic and the other is not. 'Jewish' is not a race, certainly.

 

[Rvd Slmr]

guess again

You really can't understand the difference between a religion and a religious groupe ? It is legal to say that Islam sucks, but not that Muslims suck.

 

[Zankou]

It's both. I don't know why this point has to be rehashed, although I suppose it does bring into focus why speech railing against a *race* might be treated differently than speech railing against a *religion*.

You should be able to criticize anybody's beliefs. And not be violently or forcibly suppressed by the state in doing so.

But there is comparatively little social utility in criticizing people *because they are identified as part of a group, irrespective of their personal beliefs*. This is because individual character, and individual beliefs, are the point. Judaism includes both religious beliefs *and* identification as members of an ethnic/racial group, regardless of what the religious beliefs of the person happen to be.

If that's too abstract, consider it this way -- when the SS came to your door, it was no answer for you to convincingly show that you are an atheist who spits on the Judaic religion. If you were identified as a 'Jew,' that was the end of it. The SS had not the slightest interest in Judaism as a religion. It was Jews they were concerned with, as an ineradicable ethnic and racial identity. Now it's certainly a vague and variable ethnic/racial identity, no questions there. But it's something that people are stuck with, regardless of their beliefs.

There are tons of atheist Jews. Israel itself was originally built for atheist Jews. There is as of yet, however, no 'atheist Muslim,' any more than there are 'atheist Christians.' The essence of the identity remains belief, such that if you have the belief you are the identity, and if you don't have it, you aren't.

And even if that were the case, it's no more legal in France to incite hatred against Muslims than it is to incite hatred against Jews. There are tons of prosecutions for both. Hate speech laws are primarily used as a hammer against the far Right, including anti-immigrant speech.

 

[SpidermanISGOAT]

Jews can also be a race. And are

They use DNA testing in Israel for f#cks sakes!

The Asheknazi Supremacist executive government who is currently running Israel are primarily AGNOSTICS yet they practice racial supremacy based off their "Jewishness" and the color of their skin.

They were sterilizing Blacks in Israel for god sakes so as to not allow "unfit" genes into the gene pool of Jewish society.

 

[SpidermanISGOAT]

Netanyahu is not a religious man. He is too smart for that

but he is a damn racial supremacist it is clear as day!

 

[jeffk]

Good post by Zankou.

 

[grimballer]

I pointed out a difference between race and religion (even though 'Jewish' is not a race).

The problem with Islam and the modern world is that its 'extreme' views really aren't that extreme when one looks at the actual polls and data available. Large portions of the Muslim world believe in death for apostasy, blasphemy, adultery etc...

As you can see, sizable percentages of persons in many countries support policies and punishments that are completely incompatible with the values of a free, open society. Whereas only .01% of Muslims may actually carry out heinous acts of violence against perceived infidels, what is more disconcerting to many is how extreme the views of a moderate Muslim are.

The article interviews Deputy Minister Dahan about homosexuality and Judaism, asking if this affects the “Jewish nature of Israel” and then goes on to produce the “hierarchy” of human beings, according to Jewish law, as follows:

“1. Jewish men who have sexual relations with Jewish women
2. Jewish bastards
3. Jewish women who have sexual relations with Jewish men or with the Holy One Blessed Be He
4. Jewish men who have sexual relations with non – Jewish women
5. Jewish homosexual men who have sexual relations with Jewish men
6. Jewish lesbians who have sexual relations with Jewish women
7. Jewish homosexual men who have sexual relations with non – Jewish men
8. Jewish lesbians who have sexual relations with non – Jewish women
———————————————————————
9. Male Goyim
10. Female Goyim.”

there are extremists in any religion.

again does it justify discriminating the majority for actions of the minority?

 

[Dalarna3]

I saw a newslink today that said that the Pope is claiming that "You can't make fun of faith" or some ridiculous bullshit like that. Christianity is essentially dead as a viable religion in terms of realpolitik. Pope Francis is basically letting Catholicism slip under a veil of disdain because he won't stand up for it.

 

[jeffk]

I have liked this Pope quite a bit but his most recent remarks were dumb.

 

[BKMMAFAN]

there are extremists in any religion.

again does it justify discriminating the majority for actions of the minority?

No. All persons should be treated equally under the law.

The number of persons with those extreme beliefs are much more prevalent in one religion than any other at the moment. But, if you're just condemning religion in general, I agree.

 

[Rod1]

If that's too abstract, consider it this way -- when the SS came to your door, it was no answer for you to convincingly show that you are an atheist who spits on the Judaic religion. If you were identified as a 'Jew,' that was the end of it. The SS had not the slightest interest in Judaism as a religion. It was Jews they were concerned with, as an ineradicable ethnic and racial identity. Now it's certainly a vague and variable ethnic/racial identity, no questions there. But it's something that people are stuck with, regardless of their beliefs.

Yet there were tons of jews who were deemed german, judaism ethnicity is not set in-stone because they are certainly not a groups of homogeneous genetic origin, at least, not long enough to distance themselves from similar groups.

Like Goering famously said "I decide who is a jew", which could fly because a lot of jews were virtually undistinguishable from Germans, not so easy to do with sub-saharan africans or asians.

Just like one can identify as a muslim or not, one can easily identify himself as a jew or not.

 

[grimballer]

It's both. I don't know why this point has to be rehashed, although I suppose it does bring into focus why speech railing against a *race* might be treated differently than speech railing against a *religion*.

You should be able to criticize anybody's beliefs. And not be violently or forcibly suppressed by the state in doing so.

But there is comparatively little social utility in criticizing people *because they are identified as part of a group, irrespective of their personal beliefs*. This is because individual character, and individual beliefs, are the point. Judaism includes both religious beliefs *and* identification as members of an ethnic/racial group, regardless of what the religious beliefs of the person happen to be.

If that's too abstract, consider it this way -- when the SS came to your door, it was no answer for you to convincingly show that you are an atheist who spits on the Judaic religion. If you were identified as a 'Jew,' that was the end of it. The SS had not the slightest interest in Judaism as a religion. It was Jews they were concerned with, as an ineradicable ethnic and racial identity. Now it's certainly a vague and variable ethnic/racial identity, no questions there. But it's something that people are stuck with, regardless of their beliefs.

There are tons of atheist Jews. Israel itself was originally built for atheist Jews. There is as of yet, however, no 'atheist Muslim,' any more than there are 'atheist Christians.' The essence of the identity remains belief, such that if you have the belief you are the identity, and if you don't have it, you aren't.

And even if that were the case, it's no more legal in France to incite hatred against Muslims than it is to incite hatred against Jews. There are tons of prosecutions for both. Hate speech laws are primarily used as a hammer against the far Right, including anti-immigrant speech.

but ppl could not be physically identify as "jews"

while nazis did have their "racial measurements", they werent classifying jews based on that.

there were nuremberg laws.

basically if your grandparents were jews, you are considered a jew

 

[Zankou]

It's certainly not the same Rod1, because Muslim and Christian are defined *intrinsically* by belief. If you don't believe in the religion, you aren't a Muslim or Christian. Period. If you do believe in the religion, you are a Muslim or Christian. Period.

You can be Jewish by conversion, though it's relatively rarely, in which case your identity as a Jew reflects your religious belief. But the vast majority of Jews are identified as Jews, and identity themselves as Jews, independent of whether they believe in the religion. So the identity is a complex hybrid.

Your quote of Goering is exactly the point. When Goering said he decided who was a Jew, the reason is that *he decided who was a Jew irrespective of what that particular 'Jew' felt, claimed, or believed*. It didn't matter if they were atheist. It didn't matter if they were Christian! If they were seen as "members of the Jewish race," no matter how ill-defined category that was, they were subjected to bitter sanctions. You could not convert away from Judaism, by Goering's lights. This is not to say that Judaism is some sort of magically defined absolutist 'race,' but rather that it is an identity that exists apart from religious belief. One might well say it's lame or foolish to identify people as a group in that essentialist way ... sure ... but that's the way it's done, both by Jews and by those who hate Jews.

 

[Erik Freydis]

Jews can also be a race. And are

They use DNA testing in Israel for f#cks sakes!

The Asheknazi Supremacist executive government who is currently running Israel are primarily AGNOSTICS yet they practice racial supremacy based off their "Jewishness" and the color of their skin.

They were sterilizing Blacks in Israel for god sakes so as to not allow "unfit" genes into the gene pool of Jewish society.

All whilst Zionists in the West preach the virtues of mass immigration, multiculturalism and inter-racial relationships. The agenda is as plain as day, yet most people are either totally blind or simply don't want to face the truth.