Hired a contractor to work on my home. Having a dispute over the price.

[IamStryker]

I don't see what he did as being that bad. He said his rate was $45 per hour, since he had a helper, it makes sense to charge more.

My issues are

- When he came out I was not told about any other charges other than his rate of 45 an hour over the course of two days. This should have been told to me so that I can make the choice if I want to pay $900 more than what I was told.

-I wouldn't have been ok with paying a young kid the same rate as who I believed to be a very experienced carpenter. He was clearly explaining things to this kid every step of the way because this kid had little experience.

He sounds very slightly sketchy in my opinion. You sound very inexperienced. I look at this as a miscommunication as much as anything. You saw be had a second person theret didn't it occur to you that $45 pretty hour, for 2 people, was pretty cheap? You could have mentioned it then.

Yes I am inexperienced here but looking at what happened overall and the review I found on him it looks very likely to me that he does this on purpose. Why else did I find another customer that had the same issue with him? I failed at communication as an inexperienced customer but he comes across as very deceptive as an experienced contractor.

Also, most people would have got various quotes before choosing their contractor.

It would also really help if you told us the total cost and a detailed breakdown of the job. Pictures would be beneficial.

Bottom line is simple, what was the job worth and did he do a good job?

A big part of this issue is that I WOULD have looked at multiple quotes had he told me he would be charging me $90 an hour over around two days of work. That is a lot of money and I wold have liked to shop around. For what he told me this would cost I thought it was fair enough to get it done. Th weather here was only going to get worse and I wanted to take care of it.

 

[IamStryker]

Besides, as soon as TS saw a second worker, did he just assume he'd got the deal of a century and found carpentry at $22.50 per hour? .

When I saw the kid I just thought to myself "Oh I didn't realize he was bringing anyone". It never crossed my mind that a per hour quote wold apply to every person that comes to a job. I cant' think of one time in my life that I have seen such a practice (not saying it's not something that exists). But I would certainly expect that this would be clearly communicated to me because it is a big deal when it comes to the final price. On a side note I definitely would not have ever expected to have to pay this kid the same rate as the person I hired in the first place. That would make more sense if it was another highly experienced carpenter who didn't need everything explained to him.

 

[IamStryker]

That's shitty and is usually cleared up ahead of time, but not always. You can negotiate the cost of the helper that is common. I hate to give this advice as I am a contractor, but the customer always wins any disputes in court if they even take you up on going to court. If it isn't enough money to go that far I'd bump down his price as low as he will take and just pay and move on. Or you can be a dick and just not pay him

~DaViD~

Hello again. Would you explain to me why you say the customer always wins in court? Does the judge just usually side with the customer and if so why is that?

 

[Th3Joker2242]

No. If the guy says $45 an hour that is what is paid for the job in general and he is the one that needs to compensate the other worker. Buying the materials himself and charging for them is the norm.
Always get a written contract even for the small things.

 

[Johnsonville]

Hello again. Would you explain to me why you say the customer always wins in court? Does the judge just usually side with the customer and if so why is that?

Yup I've seen it many times actually. It happened to my grandfather, my buddy and his father a year or two ago, and a guy was just telling me last week he lost out on 15k from it. I think a lot of it has to do with lack of contracts honestly. A lot of these guys aren't really smart business men (they are more so builders) so they have no case. That's just my assumption but all the contractors I know always say you never win, most don't even bother going to court but those who do don't win. But you gotta be careful as some of these guys are a bit haggard and might try to fuck your shit up if you're one of those assholes that won't pay at all (not saying you are)

~DaViD~

 

[method115]

On what planet does the boss pay his assistant the same rate he charges for himself? Tell him to go fuck himself.

It's a couple hundred bucks, not even enough for small claims court. He's SOL.

Even if he tried to take OP to small claims what could he possibly prove? They had no contract or anything in writing. The judge would just throw the case out with absolutely no proof from either side about the price. At best the judge would make TS pay exactly what he already planned to.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

How often does a customer get work done on their house? Of course they are going to be inexperienced compared to a contractor that does it everyday for a living.
It's on the contractor to be clear on the costs it he wants to get paid. He should make it crystal clear what the costs are going to be.
Fuck him. Pay what you agreed upon and not a cent more. From the Yelp review you posted, he is either a scammer or a moron.

 

[bufetadanacara]

When I saw the kid I just thought to myself "Oh I didn't realize he was bringing anyone". It never crossed my mind that a per hour quote wold apply to every person that comes to a job. I cant' think of one time in my life that I have seen such a practice (not saying it's not something that exists). But I would certainly expect that this would be clearly communicated to me because it is a big deal when it comes to the final price. On a side note I definitely would not have ever expected to have to pay this kid the same rate as the person I hired in the first place. That would make more sense if it was another highly experienced carpenter who didn't need everything explained to him.

Did you get a good overall price?

 

[Strychnine]

Tell him you'll pay the agreed upon $45 an hour and if he doesn't like that, then^

 

[kahiljabroni]

he is trying to scam you, so definitely don't pay that. your original verbal contract is $45 / hour to hire him and his business. who he hires is them on him. NOBODY conducts business this way by terming it "$45 an hour" and then meaning that applies to everyone.

if you had a crew of 12, you tell the person hiring you either what the overall estimate is (which is how it's supposed to be done) or an hourly that the BUSINESS will charge.

tell him you will pay him the agreed upon rate and hours. if he wanted double that, then it should've been a $90 an hour term. let him take you to small claims if he has to, you are not acting unreasonable. let a small claims judge make the decision.

if you want to avoid court, you could make him an offer over the agreed upon price, but do not agree to double. don't let it hassle you, small claims is not that big a deal. but be firm about it, tell the guy either (1) take our deal or take me to court, or (2) offer him a slightly better than the original deal but significantly less than what he wants. that's my advice.

Basically what I came to say. I'd be pretty firm about sticking to the original 45x20...but if he gives alot of pushback I'd probably offer 50 more tops. You have no contract...he doesn't have a leg to stand on in court. Plus he is probably not licensed or insured .

Be respectful about it but be firm

 

[Beaver Brownlee]

Per man hour is a given however it also should have been stated. $45 per man hour is very reasonable here in the Omaha area.

Not sure what your state laws are but in the states I've contracted work repairs to existing structures are not taxed, new construction or upgrades are taxable.

A registered contractor would file a lean on your property if payment is denied.

 

[KILL KILL]

This is why you always get a written contract for any work that a contractor will do.

Absolutely. I couldn't imagine hiring someone without a written agreement. Written agreements clarifies the minutia and protects both parties. The fact that a contractor would do work without one is mind boggling to me, because he's at an even greater risk of getting burned than you are.

 

[thomnasty]

Why does assistant make the same rate as him? That doesn’t make sense. Especially if the main boss is having to explain stuff to him as he goes. Sounds more like an apprentice. It was the contractors decision to bring him on board for your project and if it was not communicated with you, you should have no obligation to pay him.

 

[Protectandserve]

Absolutely. I couldn't imagine hiring someone without a written agreement. Written agreements clarifies the minutia and protects both parties. The fact that a contractor would do work without one is mind boggling to me, because he's at an even greater risk of getting burned than you are.

Seriously. I have a buddy who is an electrician. He did some work for me a few years ago when I had a house, he provided a written contract, even though I have known him for years.

Any contractor worth their salt in any field does paper contracts so they don't get fucked by a client.

Same as when I had a guy do my pavement, lawn, drainage, etc. All times they provided written contracts.

I go on civil disputes over payment all the time with people and contractors at work. Get it in writing before they start any work and before you pay anything.

 

[Beaver Brownlee]

Why does assistant make the same rate as him? That doesn’t make sense. Especially if the main boss is having to explain stuff to him as he goes. Sounds more like an apprentice. It was the contractors decision to bring him on board for your project and if it was not communicated with you, you should have no obligation to pay him.

Why does the body shop charge the same hourly rate for the painter and the kid masking it off? Why do mechanics charge the same hourly rate for oil changes as transmission replacement?
Does the new kid represent more liability?

What makes you think you have more insight in to the rates he needs to charge than him?

 

[Oblivian]

Dealing with contractors always sucks, so get used to that. Every job that I've done has been quoted. In general, they are expecting you to get quotes from others and they hold to their quote. I've had jobs where it probably should have cost more than the quote. They always have kept to exactly what they quoted. I would NEVER hire a contractor on an hourly rate.

In regards to the contractor putting a lien on your property: I'd research that a bit as state laws differ. In my state, he'd be a fool to put that lien on there. They only last six months here anyhow, so they are virtually useless. Furthermore, there is a lot of risk with it. You can actually sue him for slander of title if he puts a lien on that is not at an agreed price. If the judge would rule in your favor, he'd be eating your attorney fees and possibly other damages.

 

[thomnasty]

Why does the body shop charge the same hourly rate for the painter and the kid masking it off? Why do mechanics charge the same hourly rate for oil changes as transmission replacement?
Does the new kid represent more liability?

What makes you think you have more insight in to the rates he needs to charge than him?

I dong know the entire situation. I’m just going by what Ts said, but it sounds like the assistant isn’t really able to provide as higher quality of work as the boss. I wouldn’t pay for that if it was not made clear to me and especially if it’s slowing the contractor down having to explain things.

And I don’t think your comparisons to mechanics apply in this situation.

 

[Beaver Brownlee]

I dong know the entire situation. I’m just going by what Ts said, but it sounds like the assistant isn’t really able to provide as higher quality of work as the boss. I wouldn’t pay for that if it was not made clear to me and especially if it’s slowing the contractor down having to explain things.

And I don’t think your comparisons to mechanics apply in this situation.

So you think he brought help to slow him down?
Is it possible that the help was beneficial in moving heavy items, bringing equipment, cleaning up?
I'm charging the same hourly rate for the new guy that strapped on his first tool belt as my help of the last 4 years and 12 years. Don't like it, fine, hire a hack.

 

[thomnasty]

So you think he brought help to slow him down?
Is it possible that the help was beneficial in moving heavy items, bringing equipment, cleaning up?
I'm charging the same hourly rate for the new guy that strapped on his first tool belt as my help of the last 4 years and 12 years. Don't like it, fine, hire a hack.

I think he probably charges 45 then, pays the assistant 20, then pockets the rest. I’m just speculating though.

It’s fine if you want to charge the same rate for any worker regardless of experience. Do you tell your clients/customers that you charge for the amount of workers you use? That’s where TS’s gripe comes from. It sounds like the contractor TS wasn’t exactly forethcoming (Maybe it was intentional. Maybe not) about these things, then again he states that he didn’t get an estimate.

 

[PG29 red0 Jr]

If its not a quote job I do T&M NTE so this doesn't happen.