Hey guys, what are your thoughts on "Trapping"?

The question is is how did she defend? I have trained or spared against alot styles. The 2 most common punches are the Jab and the straight. The 2 most common kicks to follow are the roundhouse or the front kick. I expect anyone and every one to fight with combo of those 4 strikes. What tended to give away the background was how they defended against incoming attacks and starting stance.

very good point....

an overlooked point, but a very good one; excellent post sir and i mean that wholeheartedly.
 
Hey China Boxer great posts. Ive referred a lot of my students to your videos on you tube so they can understand the WC mechanics of JKD well. You mentioned Inosantos, and Ted Wongs lineages when you were talking about JKD, and assessed their trapping as lacking the foundations in WC that make them effective. I would have to refer you to Jerry Poteet's lineage, there are three main lineages in JKD. The inosanto branch, Ted Wong's and the lineages that came from the backyard class Bruce held untill he passed which included Pete Jacobs, Jerry Poteet, Steve Golden, Daniel Lee, and Bob Bremer. I respect what you wanna do for Wing Chun, Im going to do the same thing for JKD
You forgot Lamar Davis, and he is probably the best trapper of the bunch.
 
The question is is how did she defend? I have trained or spared against alot styles. The 2 most common punches are the Jab and the straight. The 2 most common kicks to follow are the roundhouse or the front kick. I expect anyone and every one to fight with combo of those 4 strikes. What tended to give away the background was how they defended against incoming attacks and starting stance.

Like a kickboxer, take a few steps back and cover up if needed.

Stance also nothing special, basic kickboxing or MMA stance, one leg forward, foot facing the opponent, one leg back and to the side, foot 45 degrees, one hand in front, one near the chin. My own stance was more "traditional" with one arm reaching and the other chest-high, a bit like Machida's.

We all know how the WC stance looks like and it wasn't it.
 
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Like a kickboxer, take a few steps back and cover up if needed.

Stance also nothing special, basic kickboxing or MMA stance, one leg forward, foot facing the opponent, one leg back and to the side, foot 45 degrees, one hand in front, one near the chin. My own stance was more "traditional" with one arm reaching and the other chest-high, a bit like Machida's.

We all know how the WC stance looks like and it wasn't it.

The stance means little to nothing. The guard varies. I can use wing chun principles starting from any stance I want from a muay thai stance to a karate kid crane kick stance. I can use it using any guard as well--which is the reason why you still differences from one wing chun person to another in terms how they "start".

It's not the static that one should focus on, but the movement. Find someone who uses wing chun, and who pressure tests it in sparring. It will prove difficult to find someone, but that's honestly the best way to learn.
 
The stance means little to nothing. The guard varies. I can use wing chun principles starting from any stance I want from a muay thai stance to a karate kid crane kick stance. I can use it using any guard as well--which is the reason why you still differences from one wing chun person to another in terms how they "start".

It's not the static that one should focus on, but the movement. Find someone who uses wing chun, and who pressure tests it in sparring. It will prove difficult to find someone, but that's honestly the best way to learn.

*SIGH*

That's like telling me to find someone who's actually good at applying Capoeira to real fighting - sure, the principles are there, the theory is all nicely explained, the movements are reasonably easy afters a few years of grueling practice and it all makes at least some sense if you really want it to but in the end there's only one person in the entire world who actually has a winning record with Capoeira as his standup style - Marcus Aurelio - and he's a 3rd degree black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu with 66% of his wins via Submission.

Besides, he's a million miles away in bloody Brazil and I'm a lazy fuck with no spare buck for a plane ticket.

/rant
 
Lol. True enough. A lot of the Brits take wing chun to a proper level, but you're right that you shouldn't have to search so hard to find what you're looking for.

That said, there are individuals out there that are capable. You just have to find em.

Perhaps Chinaboxer will have some footage and I'll try and accommodate something as well.
 
*SIGH*

That's like telling me to find someone who's actually good at applying Capoeira to real fighting - sure, the principles are there, the theory is all nicely explained, the movements are reasonably easy afters a few years of grueling practice and it all makes at least some sense if you really want it to but in the end there's only one person in the entire world who actually has a winning record with Capoeira as his standup style - Marcus Aurelio - and he's a 3rd degree black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu with 66% of his wins via Submission.

Besides, he's a million miles away in bloody Brazil and I'm a lazy fuck with no spare buck for a plane ticket.

/rant

this is true of some many striking arts. Despite the popularity or maybe becuase of the popularity it is easier to find bad and good fighters from the big four.
 
this is true of some many striking arts. Despite the popularity or maybe becuase of the popularity it is easier to find bad and good fighters from the big four.

Same can be said about for example Aikido and some Kung Fu styles. Along with Capoeira, they count amongst the least known for effectiveness in the world. My own base art - Karate - has always gotten a lot of flak but I was actually able to find 70+ (!) fighters with a Karate background who have had some success in MMA:
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f61/30-successful-karate-fighters-mma-1040386/
 
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I know what you're eluding too and i completely agree with you! The major reason why there's nothing of "skill" on the internet sparring utilizing trapping (although there's a lot of junk), is because Pure Wing Chun'ers don't spar outside of their comfort zone which makes them very limited and JKD guys don't understand the "structure" of Pure Trapping skill which makes them very sloppy, to the point that it doesn't even resemble anything like trapping during sparring. Both sides like to slam the other but i think because of the stubbornness of both sides, they completely miss the boat.

This sounds like a total scammer answer when you go to him asking where your money is. Always has an excuse.
 
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Bump!
 
Great example. It baffles me when people say trapping doesn't work. If he can do that with gloves on, imagine him with no gloves and can actually grab the wrists.

I like to think of trapping as advanced parrying. Everyone can benefit from it. I can't wait for the days when MMA can make use of it and show case it in the octagon like Ronda did with Judo and hip toss, and wonderboy with karate etc.
 

Yes Muay Thai does indeed involve some forms of trapping, especially when moving in and out of the clinch, even trapping using the neck and head to hold or slow an opponents disengagement......
 
Wow, this thing back from the dead again?
<{chips}>
 
i think trappin is soooo important for street fighting. i think it is kind of useless in a ring. but in the street, someone who knows how to trap with have the advantage IMO.

for example...while going to clinch with someone in the street, your opponent is going to have their hands up, trapping helps you time getting their hands down so u can get neck contorl and work headbutts/elbows(what i live to do :) )

but in the ring....not so much.

People won't punch your face in the street?
 
I use trapping skills all the time when i spar against Muay Thai or Boxing practitioners, and YES it does work and works well. They always come up to me after and ask me what i was doing because it is so effective.

The problem isn't the skill, the problem is that almost no one knows how to do it properly. Trapping skills work EXACTLY like Jujitsu skills. You have to think of trapping like stand up grappling.

You cannot try to "muscle" a move or you will get stuck. If you use your shoulders, you are WRONG, if your shoulders turn, you are WRONG. If you don't understand forward energy, you are WRONG, if you don't understand constant pressure, you are WRONG. High level sensitivity takes many many years to develop, just like a great grappler who can transition from move to move by feel alone rather than trying to force moves. Someone who is great at trapping, fights almost exactly like a high level grappler.

I have yet to meet anyone outside of pure Wing Chun who can do trapping properly. There are so many wannabe "trappers" who learn a few things but completely lack the structure or understanding of high level sensitivity. They then go and spar and get completely worked over. This is why the MMA community at large look down at Wing Chun and trapping skills.

Now, with all that said, here's the flip side to the coin. Trapping skills alone will NOT work in the cage or ring. You must have a deep understanding of pure striking arts such as Boxing, Muay Thai, Savate etc...

You must ALSO have a deep understanding of a pure grappling art such as Judo, Jujitsu, Catch etc...

Trapping is only good between Boxing and Clinching range. So getting there is half the battle. That's why it's important to know a pure striking art.

In other words, you should never rely on trapping but should incorporate it just like any other range or tool in your arsenal.

Hmm...i guess the best way to show or explain this is to actually put up a video of myself sparring a pure striker using it. I'll try and get one up soon.

Really old school boxers would have some trapping. Machida used some trapping. But, yeah, it is not really good if that is the only thing that you know.
 
When I was a kid, I studied Chinese Kempo, and I was obsessed with it. Part of improving was sitting down and reading about the techniques and concepts. One of my favorite subjects, was Bruce Lee's take on the trapping range, and how he integrated unarmed Kali techniques with the techniques he learned in Wing Chun, and made them effective in full-contact sparring. Even though I stopped training that art (recently started out in BJJ), I've always retained the interest in those concepts. So my question is, have you seen it used? How effective is it in "live" sparring? Can it be applied to a self-defense situation?

I dont know about using wing chun in its pure form would work in muay thai however........I would say someone that is very good at wing chun and learned muay thai, would probably be better than average at trapping/elbowing/clinching etc etc. Just as some one who took "insert kicking martial art here" would transition in muay thai good as well.
 
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