Heel hooks are NEVER EVER legal in gi BJJ

[ComteGuillotine]

what gym do you train at?

Relson Gracie Cleveland.

It's a great place and I have no doubt that my training partners are going out of their way to make sure I don't get injured, and I'm doing the same for them, and they're doing the same for all the others. The training is hard, some folks are going to give you a knee to the throat, fist to the throat, knuckles to the jaw, forearm on the jaw or on the throat, but they're not going to wrench on you when they know they have caught you in something.

There's some grunting and groaning from crushing and smashing but very little screaming from popping, snapping, or tearing, because people are smooth and careful with the submissions, even though they may spring into them.

 

[Calibur]

what gym do you train at?

What gym do you train at?

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

I won a gi match in a local submission-only tournament with a heel hook. The rules of that tournament allowed them for purple and above. But it was still BJJ. There is more than 1 BJJ organization. One federation doesn't get to say what we did was not jiu-jitsu.

 

[blindgod]

How about that the instructor doesn't allow us to use them in training? Is being against "house rules" a legitimate enough reason why one should not use them on sparring partners?

That's a rhetorical question, by the way. Of course it is.

I think it's funny that I addressed your question in the post you quoted, but you specifically chose not to quote the part where I did.

 

[blindgod]

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go train gi BJJ and do nothing but neck cranks and heel hooks while wearing my affliction teeshirt under my gi top.

 

[Vector_X]

can you name a gi bjj tournament that allowed heel hooks that wasn't some obscure tourney?

That doesn't mean it's not a legitimate technique though, merely that they aren't to be used in a tournament. The cranking in part is what I thought was dick not really doing the move. If he didn't crank it in redaxe could have just come back and said, "hey man, we don't do heel hooks here. I'm training for a tournament so I just want to roll using those rules and the whole situation wouldn't have occured."

 

[nefti]

jimmy,
Really bro? I expected this from a noob not from a guy like you. What significant federation allows heel hooks with the gi? CBJJO, CBJJ, CBJJE all don't allow heel hooks.

The largest competitions such as the mundials, the copa, pan ams, brasilain coa, ect ect don't allow heel hooks.

You are naming some obscure league that isn't even well known. It falls under the "obsure gi tourney" catagory.

 

[platfox]

I know this thread may have veered a little but as far as the original topic is concerned...it doesn't really matter what the rules are at any tournament (obscure or not). Heel hooks in the gi are not allowed at Redaxe's school. Thats all that matters in this situation.

 

[yup@yup]

I tend towards using all kinds of leg locks, gi and no-gi, however with the tightness of gi-leg locks, I wont go for HHs if I didn't pre/ask/arrange it with my partner, and even then I would never crank on one, gi or no-gi

That dude was just an asshole...

 

[lechien]

Both.

How can they both fail?

I can understand your point that BJJ guys should learn to roll with illegal techniques.

But in your case, where do you draw the line?

If I walk in my club tonite and crank a heelhook on all my blue belts and just tell them that they fail because they should know how to defend that stuff, what would I have achieved!

 

[KJGould]

I know this thread may have veered a little but as far as the original topic is concerned...it doesn't really matter what the rules are at any tournament (obscure or not). Heel hooks in the gi are not allowed at Redaxe's school. Thats all that matters in this situation.

It sounds like the guy was a dick but redaxe hasn't said whether his instructor told the guy "no heelhooks". Anyone that is new coming into class has to be told what's off limits before rolling.

 

[yup@yup]

I tend towards using all kinds of leg locks, gi and no-gi, however with the tightness of gi-leg locks, I wont go for HHs if I didn't pre/ask/arrange it with my partner, and even then I would never crank on one, gi o

 

[StevenGiles]

Its slightly unrelated but a while ago I got put in a toe hold by a new guy where I train. I sorta saw it coming and tapped straight way, but as soon as he put it on my ankle made a really audible crack sound. It swoll up pretty bad for a few days but wasn't all that painful. However, I have noticed since then it is painful if i bend it much. For example, tightening a triangle by grabbing my ankle is very painful. Does anyone have any advice? It happened a few weeks ago

 

[killakoy]

there has been at least two posters here over the years who started in Gokors gym and got severe neck/leg injuries. Heck on of gokors students admitted that karyo ripped a new wrestlers knee with a heel hook.

That was me that said that... not a new wrestler. New to submission grappling, experienced wrestler... accidents happen. That was a long time ago.

 

[nefti]

yea that's what i meant, IIRC the wrestler had no idea how to defend a heel hook. Yes accidents happen, but there are ways to minimize it. one way is to make sure that the people you heel hook know the defence to it. Not a slam but we are talking in generalities here.

 

[ila]

Its slightly unrelated but a while ago I got put in a toe hold by a new guy where I train. I sorta saw it coming and tapped straight way, but as soon as he put it on my ankle made a really audible crack sound. It swoll up pretty bad for a few days but wasn't all that painful. However, I have noticed since then it is painful if i bend it much. For example, tightening a triangle by grabbing my ankle is very painful. Does anyone have any advice? It happened a few weeks ago

Ice, rest, anti-inflammatories and maybe see a doctor?

I had a similar thing happen to me with a new guy in gi class. He must have been at home googling heel hook techniques (because my gym doesn't teach them to whitebelts in gi classes) and he pulled one out on me when we were supposed to be drilling something entirely different. I'm a chick, less strong than he was so I was pretty mad - I'd never roll with him again.

I feel for Juliana. Mistakes happen.

 

[thegreenblender]

Heelhooks are a different animal, and the "Just Bleed!" crowd has to own up to that. They're not bad, they just give you a noticably smaller window between "better tap" and "...my joint is fucked." I think the onus is always on the heelhooker in this scenario. Either don't go for them at all, train light--as in just get the position and sensible partners should concede when they are caught, or train at higher intensity only with those who explicitly agree to it.

 

[pseudo genki]

Its slightly unrelated but a while ago I got put in a toe hold by a new guy where I train. I sorta saw it coming and tapped straight way, but as soon as he put it on my ankle made a really audible crack sound. It swoll up pretty bad for a few days but wasn't all that painful. However, I have noticed since then it is painful if i bend it much. For example, tightening a triangle by grabbing my ankle is very painful. Does anyone have any advice? It happened a few weeks ago four years ago

Ice, rest, anti-inflammatories and maybe see a doctor?

I had a similar thing happen to me with a new guy in gi class. He must have been at home googling heel hook techniques (because my gym doesn't teach them to whitebelts in gi classes) and he pulled one out on me when we were supposed to be drilling something entirely different. I'm a chick, less strong than he was so I was pretty mad - I'd never roll with him again.

I feel for Juliana. Mistakes happen.

Fixed that for ya - if you wait to ice it from 2010 until 2014, the medical advice is probably past its sell-by date.

 

[redaxe]

Lol I remember this thread, thanks for the bump.

The dude that heelhooked me though, I haven't seen him since.

Four years later, the meniscus in my left knee has a minor tear and still clicks sometimes, but it's not annoying enough to get it scoped, and otherwise my knee is fine.

 

[dmwalking]

Heelhooks are a different animal, and the "Just Bleed!" crowd has to own up to that. They're not bad, they just give you a noticably smaller window between "better tap" and "...my joint is fucked." I think the onus is always on the heelhooker in this scenario. Either don't go for them at all, train light--as in just get the position and sensible partners should concede when they are caught, or train at higher intensity only with those who explicitly agree to it.

I had an old team mate who was a crazy good leg lock guy. He's never injured me. He always gave guys time to tap. Even in competition. The way to make leg locks safer is the same principle for all subs: position before submission. Establish control first. If you have proper control, you never need to desperately crank for your life.