Head Kicks

[c0r1nth14n]

I meant that you're dropping your guard, making it easier for your opponent to counter your technique.

If you swing the arm properly, this isn't nearly as much of a problem as it seems. When executed correctly, your left hand is covering the left side of your face, your right shoulder is up and covering the right side of your chin, and your torso is leaning left out of centerline (all assuming a right kick, mirror this for left kick). Add to this the fact that it happens very quickly and, if you're any good, you get back to guard position (or launch a new attack) very quickly, and it's not so dangerous.

That's the way that I was taught, by a pretty legit guy. Any MT guys, please correct me if I made a mistake in there somewhere.

 

[Frode Falch]

I meant that you're dropping your guard, making it easier for your opponent to counter your technique.

and again: every punch or kick does that..

 

[Godhand13]

and again: every punch or kick does that..

But why drop an extra hand? You're already vulnerable when you throw the kick, so why drop your hand, making it even easier for them to land a counter

 

[Frode Falch]

more power and better balance

 

[Godhand13]

Fair enough. I was always told in Kyokushin that dropping your hands was a stupid thing to do, but apparently there are benefits... Still doing it my way though

 

[Frode Falch]

i have a guy in my gym who comes from kyokushin and boxing. That guy can do some crazy high kicks from very close distance.

 

[SpineBreaker]

Swinging the arm is stupid and inexcusable. Keep your hands up and in front of you. If you need to swing the arm for balance, (which only means you never learned to kick correctly in the first place), keep it up and in front ready to block or punch. As in, swing out, but keep the elbow bent and ready and the hand up. Never swing down, and never straighten the elbow.

Most people who drop the arm do so because they never had a legit coach to tell them not to, and it's a very difficult habit to unlearn once you get used to it.

Also, swinging your arm this way can cause back problems.

Yeah yeah, there are people who are way more successful than us who do it. But it doesn't entirely depend on them if their kick knocks the guy out - the other guy failed to avoid it...

 

[Connoisseur]

Swinging the arm is fine and encouraged by most of my MT instructors (chief among those being Martin Kampmann and Joey Vanier at Xtreme Couture). As was previously noted, it helps act as a counter- balance, and gets more torque into your kick.

Personally, I couldn't imagine kicking without swinging the arm, I think kicking with the arm stationary would be much weaker, and the hips would be harder to retrieve. If you set up a kick right and your kick lands, the opponent shouldn't be able to counter you.

As someone else said though, do what works for you as long as your qualified coach doesn't lambast you for it.

 

[xilliun]

Fair enough. I was always told in Kyokushin that dropping your hands was a stupid thing to do, but apparently there are benefits... Still doing it my way though

That's the thing, going with the style that best suits you. As someone mentioned earlier, for a right head kick your left hand will be up at your face and your shoulder will come up to protect your chin on the other side. As well as that you can lean back slightly out of punching range.

 

[ssullivan80]

Fair enough. I was always told in Kyokushin that dropping your hands was a stupid thing to do, but apparently there are benefits... Still doing it my way though

In comparing a Kyokushin roundhouse kick and a MT kick the defensive mechanism for the kicks is much different, and that is due mostly in part to upper body positioning when the kick makes contact. In Kyokushin the round kick (assuming mid-high kick) keeps the kickers posture more squared at the shoulders, they bring up the knee and turn the hip over snapping the kick out from the knee and "into" the target, driving their weight or sinking their weight into the target as kick makes contact. This creates a more squared up stance at the shoulders into impact and brings the upper body forward..... given the mechanics of this kick, it would be stupid to drop your hands because the upper body positioning would leave you easy to counter.

The difference in a MT kick is that there is no (or very little) chambering and the kick drives "through" the target vs. "into" the target. The point of contact in a MT kick is after the upper body moves through (or across) the target, instead of sinking the weight into the target (bringing the upper body forward) the MT kick transfers the weight all the way through the target which distances the kicker outside of the opponents striking range (if they throw the kick correctly). So they hand or arm throw is done to get the hips all the way through the target, by the time your hand is thrown back on the kicking arm your upper body SHOULD be through the target and outside of striking range of opponents hands, while the other arm forearm guards your face to avoid counters as you retract the kick.

In short, the arm or throwing back of the hand can be both poor technique or proper technique depending on how and how well the kick is thrown. Both ways effective, it is just personal preference. I prefer a chambered round kick to set up hands behind (and yes, i keep my hands up) and the opposite applies for a thai kick as i prefer to set up the kick with my hands. For all intensive purposes i use the Thai roundkick much more often because the damage created is much greater whether or not the kick is blocked and attempting to counter a MT kick with your hands is a brave move if the kicker is really throwing the kick with bad intentions, to counter you have to step into that kick....... Why throwing a slap ass or sloppy MT roundhouse is a recipe for getting KTFO (Maia vs Marquart), but same could be said for any kick you throw half ass with lousy technique.

 

[EVIL5150]

Mirko learned kicking technique from watching kung fu movies. Any Thai coach that tells you to swing the arm is technically incorrect and coddling you. If you had learned to kick properly in the first place you could throw with maximum power without needing the crutch of a swinging arm to counterbalance your poor form.

Let's say we square up and both throw the rear round, I keep my hands up and you swing yours down. I follow with a right straight and all you've got to protect yourself is your left hand.

I fire punches off my powerkicks and I block off my powerkicks all night long because my hands are up and ready. You can make excuses for dropping your hands all you like, but you are arguing for a poor defense and a weak offense.

 

[SAAMAG]

Mirko learned kicking technique from watching kung fu movies. Any Thai coach that tells you to swing the arm is technically incorrect and coddling you. If you had learned to kick properly in the first place you could throw with maximum power without needing the crutch of a swinging arm to counterbalance your poor form.

Let's say we square up and both throw the rear round, I keep my hands up and you swing yours down. I follow with a right straight and all you've got to protect yourself is your left hand.

I fire punches off my powerkicks and I block off my powerkicks all night long because my hands are up and ready. You can make excuses for dropping your hands all you like, but you are arguing for a poor defense and a weak offense.

Ugh.

The kicks are different kicks. They might both be labeled "round kicks" by Americans but they are fundamentally different in application and intent. The Thai power kick is throwing EVERYTHING into the kick and following through, hence the need for counterbalancing. The kick is also done off the line and places the upper body safely away when done "properly" in the muay thai method.

Though there are several ways to throw the thai round kick...and some will have the hands kept up, others not so much.

 

[BigInJapan]

Mirko learned kicking technique from watching kung fu movies. Any Thai coach that tells you to swing the arm is technically incorrect and coddling you. If you had learned to kick properly in the first place you could throw with maximum power without needing the crutch of a swinging arm to counterbalance your poor form.

Let's say we square up and both throw the rear round, I keep my hands up and you swing yours down. I follow with a right straight and all you've got to protect yourself is your left hand.

I fire punches off my powerkicks and I block off my powerkicks all night long because my hands are up and ready. You can make excuses for dropping your hands all you like, but you are arguing for a poor defense and a weak offense.

so wrong

 

[EVIL5150]

so wrong

What a well thought out counter-argument. Any other gems of wisdom?

You keep arguing for dropping your hands and enjoy getting hit in the head. I'll keep training with my hands up so I can block or punch.

Have fun looking like Will Smith's kid.

 

[Upperhook]

What a well thought out counter-argument. Any other gems of wisdom?

You keep arguing for dropping your hands and enjoy getting hit in the head. I'll keep training with my hands up so I can block or punch.

Have fun looking like Will Smith's kid.

Check the posts right above his, bro. I like how you address the guy who said two words but ignore the well thought out counter-arguments you ask for.

 

[Snubnoze707]

What a well thought out counter-argument. Any other gems of wisdom?

You keep arguing for dropping your hands and enjoy getting hit in the head. I'll keep training with my hands up so I can block or punch.

Have fun looking like Will Smith's kid.

I guess Ramon Dekkers has poor technique then. It's kind of hard to counter when you're being kicked in the head...

 

[hughes fan]

I can keep my guard up when I kick with my left but with my right I find it hard so what I do is reach my right arm out to keep the distance and then swing my left arm back.

 

[BigInJapan]

I can keep my guard up when I kick with my left but with my right I find it hard so what I do is reach my right arm out to keep the distance and then swing my left arm back.

swinging the opposite arm? :icon_lol:

 

[ssullivan80]

I fire punches off my powerkicks and I block off my powerkicks all night long because my hands are up and ready. You can make excuses for dropping your hands all you like, but you are arguing for a poor defense and a weak offense.

So I am to assume you have been in a competitive fight against a skilled MT fighter and the result was his arm swinging "poor offense" was immediately overcome by your superior defense? Just curious if you make this statement from actual experience or "theory" you believe to be truth! :icon_conf

This guy seems to swing his arm? Then again, I am sure Andy Souwer's weak offense is just a crutch he uses to win multiple world titles....... eh?

 

[Frode Falch]

Holy shit! Andy Souwer look huge for a guy fighting in my weight class.. Wonder how much he cut from. :icon_surp