Head Kicks

EVIL5150 said:
Swinging the arm is stupid and inexcusable. Keep your hands up and in front of you. If you need to swing the arm for balance, (which only means you never learned to kick correctly in the first place), keep it up and in front ready to block or punch. As in, swing out, but keep the elbow bent and ready and the hand up. Never swing down, and never straighten the elbow.

Most people who drop the arm do so because they never had a legit coach to tell them not to, and it's a very difficult habit to unlearn once you get used to it.
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I didn't realize Yodsanklai has been doing it wrong this entire time.

Imagine what he could have won if he learned the right way?



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ssullivan80 said:
In comparing a Kyokushin roundhouse kick and a MT kick the defensive mechanism for the kicks is much different, and that is due mostly in part to upper body positioning when the kick makes contact. In Kyokushin the round kick (assuming mid-high kick) keeps the kickers posture more squared at the shoulders, they bring up the knee and turn the hip over snapping the kick out from the knee and "into" the target, driving their weight or sinking their weight into the target as kick makes contact. This creates a more squared up stance at the shoulders into impact and brings the upper body forward..... given the mechanics of this kick, it would be stupid to drop your hands because the upper body positioning would leave you easy to counter.

The difference in a MT kick is that there is no (or very little) chambering and the kick drives "through" the target vs. "into" the target. The point of contact in a MT kick is after the upper body moves through (or across) the target, instead of sinking the weight into the target (bringing the upper body forward) the MT kick transfers the weight all the way through the target which distances the kicker outside of the opponents striking range (if they throw the kick correctly). So they hand or arm throw is done to get the hips all the way through the target, by the time your hand is thrown back on the kicking arm your upper body SHOULD be through the target and outside of striking range of opponents hands, while the other arm forearm guards your face to avoid counters as you retract the kick.

In short, the arm or throwing back of the hand can be both poor technique or proper technique depending on how and how well the kick is thrown. Both ways effective, it is just personal preference. I prefer a chambered round kick to set up hands behind (and yes, i keep my hands up) and the opposite applies for a thai kick as i prefer to set up the kick with my hands. For all intensive purposes i use the Thai roundkick much more often because the damage created is much greater whether or not the kick is blocked and attempting to counter a MT kick with your hands is a brave move if the kicker is really throwing the kick with bad intentions, to counter you have to step into that kick....... Why throwing a slap ass or sloppy MT roundhouse is a recipe for getting KTFO (Maia vs Marquart), but same could be said for any kick you throw half ass with lousy technique.
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Very very nice description of the hand/leg/body mechanics.
 
Fuck... this guy got owned. Don't expect him to be back to this thread anytime soon.
 
man all these K-1 and top 10 ranked Nak Muays doing the kick wrong ALL THIS TIME AND I ONLY JUST FOUND OUT?

i should just fucking quit Muay Thai and go kill myself already.

everyone thank EVIL5050 for enlightening all of us.
 
I do it both ways.

A power kick, I put my arm back to help with rotating my body behind the kick for power. Like in the pics above.

For a fast, close quarters kick, I keep my hand up and on my face in the event I miss or it's blocked and I get countered.
 
I wonder what EVIL5150's counter argument will be now?

Or will he concede that he's wrong?

Or will he just not post again?

Stay tuned...
 
Hey look! A bunch of top fighters are sloppy kickers! It's a revelation! This is not news kids. STFU and get back to having crappy form.

Just because a bunch of top fighters get away with sloppy technique doesn't make it a good idea. Now an experienced fighter knows when he can get away with swinging his arm, but it's still risky. Do I do it sometimes? Yeah, when I'm tired and sloppy and I don't respect my opponent.

Guys like Chuck Liddell and Machida have made careers out of sloppy defense. Of course it can be done. I'd rather not take the chance.

Now if you train with sloppy arm swinging, that's all you'll be able to do and you'll be easy to counter. If you train your defense correctly, it'll be there when you need it, and if you feel like swinging a big kick and you're not worried about being countered, you can let your arm fly however it's comfortable.

You want to make a case for creating a big fat hole to get countered let's hear it. Post all the pics you like, you're still making an argument for dropping your hands in front of someone that wants to hit you.
 
vankuen said:
Ugh.

The kicks are different kicks. They might both be labeled "round kicks" by Americans but they are fundamentally different in application and intent. The Thai power kick is throwing EVERYTHING into the kick and following through, hence the need for counterbalancing. The kick is also done off the line and places the upper body safely away when done "properly" in the muay thai method.

Though there are several ways to throw the thai round kick...and some will have the hands kept up, others not so much.
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ssullivan80 said:
The difference in a MT kick is that there is no (or very little) chambering and the kick drives "through" the target vs. "into" the target. The point of contact in a MT kick is after the upper body moves through (or across) the target, instead of sinking the weight into the target (bringing the upper body forward) the MT kick transfers the weight all the way through the target which distances the kicker outside of the opponents striking range (if they throw the kick correctly). So they hand or arm throw is done to get the hips all the way through the target, by the time your hand is thrown back on the kicking arm your upper body SHOULD be through the target and outside of striking range of opponents hands, while the other arm forearm guards your face to avoid counters as you retract the kick.
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Even in a Thai style round kick where the kicker steps out and kicks across, there is a risk of being countered. And just because the kicker is trying to generate momentum by throwing his body into the kick doesn't mean he needs to throw his arm down and away. As I said before if you absolutely must swing the arm because you're really uncorking a powerful roundkick, (which is most likely only a fraction of the time), you should still keep your hands up. You can swing the kicking arm out while keeping both hands held high, it still opens you up a little, but you're in a far better position to block or punch as needed.
 
EVIL5150 said:
Hey look! A bunch of top fighters are sloppy kickers! It's a revelation! This is not news kids. STFU and get back to having crappy form.

Just because a bunch of top fighters get away with sloppy technique doesn't make it a good idea. Now an experienced fighter knows when he can get away with swinging his arm, but it's still risky. Do I do it sometimes? Yeah, when I'm tired and sloppy and I don't respect my opponent.

Guys like Chuck Liddell and Machida have made careers out of sloppy defense. Of course it can be done. I'd rather not take the chance.

Now if you train with sloppy arm swinging, that's all you'll be able to do and you'll be easy to counter. If you train your defense correctly, it'll be there when you need it, and if you feel like swinging a big kick and you're not worried about being countered, you can let your arm fly however it's comfortable.

You want to make a case for creating a big fat hole to get countered let's hear it. Post all the pics you like, you're still making an argument for dropping your hands in front of someone that wants to hit you.
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The real problem here is that you don't have an understanding of fighting. If you did, you wouldn't be talking just to talk. I also doubt that you'd able to hit any of those fighters throwing a "sloppy" kick even when they were at a novice level.
 
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EVIL5150 said:
Hey look! A bunch of top fighters are sloppy kickers! It's a revelation! This is not news kids. STFU and get back to having crappy form.

Just because a bunch of top fighters get away with sloppy technique doesn't make it a good idea. Now an experienced fighter knows when he can get away with swinging his arm, but it's still risky. Do I do it sometimes? Yeah, when I'm tired and sloppy and I don't respect my opponent.

Guys like Chuck Liddell and Machida have made careers out of sloppy defense. Of course it can be done. I'd rather not take the chance.

Now if you train with sloppy arm swinging, that's all you'll be able to do and you'll be easy to counter. If you train your defense correctly, it'll be there when you need it, and if you feel like swinging a big kick and you're not worried about being countered, you can let your arm fly however it's comfortable.

You want to make a case for creating a big fat hole to get countered let's hear it. Post all the pics you like, you're still making an argument for dropping your hands in front of someone that wants to hit you.
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youre either a great troll or dont train muay thai...im wondering if you think that their low hand is just them being lazy? to me, if they were just being lazy, i doubt their hands would be that low...more like it is technique that they have worked on and implemented for some reason. its funny that you mention that a bunch of top fighters are sloppy kickers. seems that the pics posted were of top Muay Thai/Kickboxing guys. one would assume that they would be pretty well versed in kicking technique...

just curious...what style do you train exactly?
 
ROFL @ This guy being in complete denial.

Aparantly all top kickboxers have sloppy kicking technique LOL

Andy must have the worst, look at this, BOTH ARMS!

andyhug22.jpg
 
Brooklyn said:
I wonder what EVIL5150's counter argument will be now?

Or will he concede that he's wrong?

Or will he just not post again?

Stay tuned...
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the rantings of a desperate man is what they were. :icon_lol:

Just realized EVIL5050 is a MMA guy with shitty Muay Thai skills.

GO FIGURE, LOL.

Welcome to Sherdog, where MMA kids who think their striking is above K-1 level. HAHAHAHAHA.
 
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Brian does a pretty good job (IMO) of discussing some of the intricacies of a thai kick like stepping off the line, using the kicking side shoulder to protect the chin, and using the opposite hand to cover. Note that he also shows his kicking side arm held straight out.

Now let's take a look at Samkor Keatmontep demonstrate thai round kicks...

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Note his first kick, the angle kick (te mum), is shown with the kicking side arm both thrusting back as well as hovering in front. The arm counterbalances as necessary but isn't always thrown back hard nor is it always purposely kept in front.

Who's technique is right and who's is wrong? Neither one is. Each are taught as proper technique...and it only takes simple logic to see why it's necessary or not necessary in various situations.
 
Not only does Evil5150 demonstrate a total misunderstanding of the arm swing, a total inability to listen to the explanations about stepping off and keeping your shoulder high, and a total denial that the Thai champions know way more than he does, but I'm starting to wonder if he's ever even sparred against someone who kicks properly. I mean, seriously, someone with good form, stepping/leaning off the line, keeping their shoulder up, with average speed... yeah, it's not impossible to counter them, but he seems to think it's just easy as pie.
 
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