Head Kicks

karatemexi said:
in katate i was taught to keep my hands up. but i understand why ppl swing the arm. generates more power for sure. still keep at least 1 hand up for safe measure
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agreed, you should always have 1 hand up to defend, even in thai kick one hand stays up to defend.


SOMETIMES PICTURES EXPLAIN BETTER, COUNTERING A KICK WITH A STRAIGHT RIGHT IS NOT EASY IF THE KICKER THROWS THE KICK PROPERLY (SWINGING ARM OR NOT) THE UPPER BODY SHOULD PULL BACK AND OUTSIDE OF RANGE OF THE RIGHT HAND (BOTH ORTHODOX ASSUMING). SEE PIC, MAYBE THAT HELPS EXPLAIN. FURTHER, THIS KICK WAS THROWN AT A RELATIVELY CLOSE DISTANCE. BY TURNING THE HIP OVER AND KICKING THROUGH THE OPPONENT, EVEN IF THEY DO TRY TO COUNTER WITH A STRAIGHT PUNCH, THE KICK WOULD STOP THEM BEFORE THEY GOT IT THERE. REALLY, IT WOULD RUN THEM RIGHT INTO THE KICK. SO LONG AS THE KICK IS THROWN PROPERLY AND SET UP PROPERLY, THE RISK OF COUNTER IS NO HIGHER THAN THROWING A MORE TKD OR KARATE TYPE ROUNDKICK WITH BOTH HANDS UP.

RTHNDK1-1-1.jpg
 
ssullivan80 said:
agreed, you should always have 1 hand up to defend, even in thai kick one hand stays up to defend.


SOMETIMES PICTURES EXPLAIN BETTER, COUNTERING A KICK WITH A STRAIGHT RIGHT IS NOT EASY IF THE KICKER THROWS THE KICK PROPERLY (SWINGING ARM OR NOT) THE UPPER BODY SHOULD PULL BACK AND OUTSIDE OF RANGE OF THE RIGHT HAND (BOTH ORTHODOX ASSUMING). SEE PIC, MAYBE THAT HELPS EXPLAIN. FURTHER, THIS KICK WAS THROWN AT A RELATIVELY CLOSE DISTANCE. BY TURNING THE HIP OVER AND KICKING THROUGH THE OPPONENT, EVEN IF THEY DO TRY TO COUNTER WITH A STRAIGHT PUNCH, THE KICK WOULD STOP THEM BEFORE THEY GOT IT THERE. REALLY, IT WOULD RUN THEM RIGHT INTO THE KICK. SO LONG AS THE KICK IS THROWN PROPERLY AND SET UP PROPERLY, THE RISK OF COUNTER IS NO HIGHER THAN THROWING A MORE TKD OR KARATE TYPE ROUNDKICK WITH BOTH HANDS UP.

RTHNDK1-1-1.jpg
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No way man...you got it all wrong. Can't you tell in your own pic that you got punched in the face?! Wait...that he has a straight line to your face? Wait...that your face is open? Not only that but it would be impossible for you to punch after the kick...it would take too long to reset and by then you'd be annihilated! :icon_lol:
 
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He ate a kick to land a punch. It does happen...no one disputes that. One of my partners got me with a straight left to my nose because I wasn't kicking hard enough for him to respect the kick.

If the other guy doesn't think or know that the kick will do damage they'll run right over you. I do it too when I know the kick won't hurt. Ive even taken side kicks to the gut just to land a right. But would I do that against someone who kicks hard enough to do damage?? Heeeell no.
 
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vankuen said:
He ate a kick to land a punch. It does happen...no one disputes that.
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sounds like the "take two to give one" school of thought...problem is, not everyone has Shogun's core (or chin)
 
Paradigm said:
sounds like the "take two to give one" school of thought...problem is, not everyone has Shogun's core (or chin)
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Yea tell me about it. Fighting contains so many variables. So many things to take into consideration when deciding strategy and tactics. Saying that because the hands are here or there will always end with "a" being better than "b" just isn't realistic and has proven untrue.

Like I was saying, if I KNOW I can take someones best shot or kick, that's going to play a major role in how I fight them.
 
plus if the kick is set up with punches stepping in to counter is more difficult to time:P
 
That's one thing I learned with wing chun. Every attack given to me is an opportunity to hit them.

I see something coming at me I instinctively know what's open with that type of attack. It's something I call opponent relation space and something I teach normally as part of any curriculum...and that's what enables someone to master the idea of simultaneous attack and defense.

When a kick comes out--what's open to hit? When a punch comes out--what's open to hit? When a person goes for a clinch or takedown--what's open to hit? What counter-strikes are available to you that also leave you in the most advantageous position? What sort of results are to be expected with such a strike? and blah blah blah.
 
A kick thrown with full comitment will always be harder to counter than a half-assed effort, hands up or not.
 
vankuen said:
That's one thing I learned with wing chun. Every attack given to me is an opportunity to hit them.

I see something coming at me I instinctively know what's open with that type of attack. It's something I call opponent relation space and something I teach normally as part of any curriculum...and that's what enables someone to master the idea of simultaneous attack and defense.

When a kick comes out--what's open to hit? When a punch comes out--what's open to hit? When a person goes for a clinch or takedown--what's open to hit? What counter-strikes are available to you that also leave you in the most advantageous position? What sort of results are to be expected with such a strike? and blah blah blah.
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Chinese martial art has a lot of this from ancient times even,

we use

"Gate Theory"

and

"5 Element Theory"
 
thirteen said:
A kick thrown with full comitment will always be harder to counter than a half-assed effort, hands up or not.
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The people who understand this are the ones that we know have done contact sparring.

Vankuen totally hit the nail on the head. If I don't respect your power, I will just walk through it, no matter how technically perfect the technique.
 
The people who understand this are the ones that we know have done contact sparring.
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Yep. Although I no longer kickbox (moved to boxing) I was a hands-dominant kickboxer and would look for any opportunity to let my hands go. The dudes who threw half assed kicks at my head, body or legs soon learned to sharpen up.
 
LEGS MAHONEY said:
you can be countered on the side the hands down as this picture in the op shows
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/le...-shogun-did-not-solve-machida-riddle-1394611/
But how many people even counter a round kick like that?:icon_chee
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Of course you can be countered!

Also, note that Shogun is orthodox and Machida is SP..... changes things up a little, when kicking with your rear leg against a guy with the opposite stance your swinging arm is thrown down on the same side as there power hand and you have to bring your head back across centerline when you retract the kick..... Still, the kick can be equally as effective against either stance, but it is important to understand where your vulnerable........ that is how you become less vulnerable.

Personally, against a SP I am much more hesitant to throw a rear leg mid-high kick in an exchange unless we are circling left........... and anytime your sparring a SP, one of the easiest ways to counter them is to simultaneously throw a high kick off the same leg as they are throwing their mid-low kick ..... They will toss themselves head first into your kick if you time it well (got to anticipate the kick) and it is one of the best ways to counter kick a guy in opposite stance, see video below..... and that kick was not thrown very hard, he just flung himself into it..... Good-night!

 
EVIL5150 said:
Swinging the arm is stupid and inexcusable. Keep your hands up and in front of you. If you need to swing the arm for balance, (which only means you never learned to kick correctly in the first place), keep it up and in front ready to block or punch. As in, swing out, but keep the elbow bent and ready and the hand up. Never swing down, and never straighten the elbow.

Most people who drop the arm do so because they never had a legit coach to tell them not to, and it's a very difficult habit to unlearn once you get used to it.
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Sorry, you're wrong. If you honestly say you keep the same guard when headkicking as you do when punching then your technique is flawed.
 
ssullivan80 said:
Of course you can be countered!

Also, note that Shogun is orthodox and Machida is SP..... changes things up a little, when kicking with your rear leg against a guy with the opposite stance your swinging arm is thrown down on the same side as there power hand and you have to bring your head back across centerline when you retract the kick..... Still, the kick can be equally as effective against either stance, but it is important to understand where your vulnerable........ that is how you become less vulnerable.

Personally, against a SP I am much more hesitant to throw a rear leg mid-high kick in an exchange unless we are circling left........... and anytime your sparring a SP, one of the easiest ways to counter them is to simultaneously throw a high kick off the same leg as they are throwing their mid-low kick ..... They will toss themselves head first into your kick if you time it well (got to anticipate the kick) and it is one of the best ways to counter kick a guy in opposite stance, see video below..... and that kick was not thrown very hard, he just flung himself into it..... Good-night!

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Nice. Shouldn't that have been the side that his hand WOULD be up? :icon_chee
 
vankuen said:
Nice. Shouldn't that have been the side that his hand WOULD be up? :icon_chee
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yes! it certainly should of been, evidence would indicate so..... That said, i would be a damn liar if i didn't admit that the same damn thing has happened to me too, matter of fact by the same guy in vid with me, but he aint got it on tape:icon_chee...... Nonetheless, good technique is never lazy. You can be technically sound but if you throw any shot lazy, it is gonna get countered... If you notice, that was the 2nd or 3rd time he threw that lazy lead low kick in the clip.... why i knew it could be countered. Had he really turned that kick over and thrown it (and he can kick like a mule, just didnt), I probably would of been more concerned with defending it than countering it, goes to show!
 
FadeIntoViolenc said:
how bad was he hurt? serious question
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Not at all! Stood up and shook it off, took a 10min breather with some cold water, got right back to bag work...... just caught him in the wrong spot, kinda up high on the neck behind the ear..... "reset button".
 
::blue screen:: ---> ctrl alt del
 
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