"Hard-Working American" Myth

[OldGoat]

Seriously, you refute that statement?

Explain the problem with it then.


"If you business can't support the workers it needs to operate it's a shit business and it should die as soon as possible."


If a business consumes more than it produces it generates a net loss and detracts from everything around it.

Huh? the workers aren't owed anything more than they agree to work for.

 

[ABACA]

It's not a very complex analysis that's required. People buy goods/services from businesses because they believe it will benefit them whether it be in the long term or short term. Otherwise they wouldn't have bought the good/service.

I'm not sure what you don't understand.

Yeah, so where does "society" come into that transaction? Cause all you've shown is that businesses sell goods/services to consumers. You haven't demonstrated how that is good for "society" (i'll give you a hint, if you want a way to add "society" think about externalities), nor have you demonstrated how this type of transaction could actually be coerced, and thus to the detriment of the consumer relative to a similar transaction in a non-capitalist economy.

 

[HIMBOB]

Huh? the workers aren't owed anything more than they agree to work for.

I agree.
They have no right to demand more than they agreed to work for.


I am saying when a business requires the government to support its workers it is ineffiecnt and it should die (unless it provides some other material benefit for society).

 

[ben236]

Yeah, so where does "society" come into that transaction? Cause all you've shown is that businesses sell goods/services to consumers. You haven't demonstrated how that is good for "society" (i'll give you a hint, if you want a way to add "society" think about externalities), nor have you demonstrated how this type of transaction could actually be coerced, and thus to the detriment of the consumer relative to a similar transaction in a non-capitalist economy.

A society is nothing more than the sum of it's individuals. If the individuals within a society benefits, then society benefits. And I don't know what you mean by transactions being "coerced."

 

[OldGoat]

I agree.
They have no right to demand more than they agreed to work for.


I am saying when a business requires the government to support its workers it is ineffiecnt and it should die (unless it provides some other material benefit for society).

The fact that people receive welfare is completely the fault of themselves.

You are responsible for yourself. A business is not responsible for you. If anything the argument can be made, quite successfully, that business subsidizes failed gubmint policies.

 

[IGIT]

I agree.
They have no right to demand more than they agreed to work for.


I am saying when a business requires the government to support its workers it is ineffiecnt and it should die (unless it provides some other material benefit for society).

hello HimBob,

but under these auspices, places like MacDonalds and Walmart would go belly up.

those companies need government assistance (not to be profitable, but to maintain their current profit margins).

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

The fact that people receive welfare is completely the fault of themselves.

You are responsible for yourself. A business is not responsible for you. If anything the argument can be made, quite successfully, that business subsidizes failed gubmint policies.

hello Oldgoat,

you're not being consistent, my friend.

on other threads, you've commented* prolifically about how today's K-12 programs do not prepare Americans to enter the workforce - so if i take you at your word, it's not all the fault of the "people".

right?

- IGIT

* - i don't agree with your stance, but i remember what you've written on the topic.

 

[OldGoat]

hello HimBob,

but under these auspices, places like MacDonalds and Walmart would go belly up.

those companies need government assistance.

- IGIT

Not this retarded meme again. You guys with your "Occupy Wallstreet" talking points need to examine the logic behind them. By the metrics you guys use EVERYBODY on the planet is on USA government assistance and thus can never be against any other form of government assistance. Use GPS? Eh, that's government supplied good. You are subsidized by the government. Now you can't complain.... What a hollow farcical and transparently bad argument. C'mon lefties.

 

[HIMBOB]

The fact that people receive welfare is completely the fault of themselves.

You are responsible for yourself. A business is not responsible for you. If anything the argument can be made, quite successfully, that business subsidizes failed gubmint policies.

Ask yourself this,

Should I be able to run a business when the business is only possible if I externalise part of my expenses onto the tax payer?

 

[OldGoat]

hello Oldgoat,

you're not being consistent, my friend.

on other threads, you've commented* prolifically about how today's K-12 programs do not prepare Americans to enter the workforce - so if i take you at your word, it's not all the fault of the "people".

right?

- IGIT

* - i don't agree with your stance, but i remember what you've written on the topic.

Education is not solely the responsibility of the state. It's also your's and your family's. That said, yes public education in many areas has systemic faults which is the fault of the government which is the fault of the elected officials which is the fault of the public.

So yes, in a system of self-government you have responsibility.

 

[HIMBOB]

hello HimBob,

but under these auspices, places like MacDonalds and Walmart would go belly up.

those companies need government assistance (not to be profitable, but to maintain their current profit margins).

- IGIT

McD Australia is doing just fine. Sure they might have thinner margins than the US stores, but they can do just fine.

The current wage paid being less than a livable wage is in effect the American Tax payer subsidising the interntional investors in McD.

Maybe international investors are more deserving of US tax payer dollars but I don't see it that way.

 

[IGIT]

Not this retarded meme again. You guys with your "Occupy Wallstreet" talking points need to examine the logic behind them. By the metrics you guys use EVERYBODY on the planet is on USA government assistance and thus can never be against any other form of government assistance. Use GPS? Eh, that's government supplied good. You are subsidized by the government. Now you can't complain.... What a hollow farcical and transparently bad argument. C'mon lefties.

hi OldGoat,

i guess if you say that i use government provided taxpayer funded assets (like highways and the US mail), you could say we are all subsidized. then again, i make enough money to actually pay Federal taxes, so i don't consider myself parasitical.

my point, though, is that places like Taco Bell and WalMart depend on the SNAP program and other safety net programs to sort of "round out" a living wage for their employees.

so if you're saying that i am a welfare guy because i use GPS, i'm guilty as charged. i don't have enough money to launch my own satellite and have GPS, lol....but i don't need government safety net programs to help my employees make ends meet.

i provide for them myself.

- IGIT

 

[ben236]

Ask yourself this,

Should I be able to run a business when the business is only possible if I externalise part of my expenses onto the tax payer?

Those are the workers expenses, not Walmart's. It's not like Walmart physically took your dick and put it in some chick's vagina that resulted in a kid that you're unable to support.

 

[OldGoat]

Ask yourself this,

Should I be able to run a business when the business is only possible if I externalise part of my expenses onto the tax payer?

Absolutely. It's not a businesses fault that ridiculous wage laws or ridiculous regulations are passed. Now of course, a business shouldn't be able to dump waste everywhere or operate an unsafe factory. But the living expenses of an individual or a family are strictly their own problem.

 

[OldGoat]

hi OldGoat,

i guess if you say that i use government provided taxpayer funded assets (like highways and the US mail), you could say we are all subsidized. then again, i make enough money to actually pay Federal taxes, so i don't consider myself parasitical.

my point, though, is that places like Taco Bell and WalMart depend on the SNAP program and other safety net programs to sort of "round out" a living wage for their employees.

so if you're saying that i am a welfare guy because i use GPS, i'm guilty as charged. i don't have enough money to launch my own satellite and have GPS, lol....but i don't need government safety net programs to help my employees make ends meet.

i provide for them myself.

- IGIT

Don't care. The expenses of a worker are his problem. Do a tiny bit of reading on wage floors. Do some reading on how to save money. You know it's not hard in the USA to live within your means if you show some discipline and restraint.

 

[IGIT]

McD Australia is doing just fine. Sure they might have thinner margins than the US stores, but they can do just fine.

The current wage paid being less than a livable wage is in effect the American Tax payer subsidising the interntional investors in McD.

Maybe international investors are more deserving of US tax payer dollars but I don't see it that way.

hello HIMBOB,

McD is doing just fine here in the USA also, but a vast number of their employees are subsidized (here in the United States) by numerous Federal safety net programs. that's how those folks stay above the poverty line.

that's not my opinion, my friend, those are facts.

you Aussies have a weird country, too - you guys aren't as good as the USA in wealth disparity. your wealth disparity between the wealthy and the poor is tiny compared to ours.

losers.



- IGIT

 

[OldGoat]

hello HIMBOB,

McD is doing just fine here in the USA also, but a vast number of their employees are subsidized (here in the United States) by numerous Federal safety net programs. that's how those folks stay above the poverty line.

that's not my opinion, my friend, those are facts.

you Aussies have a weird country, too - you guys aren't as good as the USA in wealth disparity. your wealth disparity between the wealthy and the poor is tiny compared to ours.

losers.



- IGIT

Repetition doesn't make a falsehood a fact. Though it does confuse left wing low information voters.

 

[HIMBOB]

Those are the workers expenses, not Walmart's. It's not like Walmart physically took your dick and put it in some chick's vagina that resulted in a kid that you're unable to support.

I am not talking about people with kids, that is seperate.

I am saying enough for the worker to go to work, which means housing, food and health. No, dependants, just the worker.

If a bare basic worker needs let say 100units to simply survive (not thrive, just work) and they go to work and produce 90units, then this person has a negative value and should be retasked elsewhere.

(FYI I am using Units as I don't want to get into specif $ amounts instead focus on concept).

 

[IGIT]

Don't care.

*hugs OldGoat and hands him a full set of Prideful Gladiator gear*

thats why i love ya, Goat.

you don't care that you're being inconsistent. you just bite down on your mouthpiece, and forge onward.

more power to ya.

- IGIT

 

[OldGoat]

*hugs OldGoat and hands him a full set of Prideful Gladiator gear*

thats why i love ya, Goat.

you don't care that you're being inconsistent. you just bite down on your mouthpiece, and forge onward.

more power to ya.

- IGIT

Show me the inconsistency.