International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

[Strychnine]

The vid breaks down to this...

One choice has the possibility of the Gaza situation staying the same as is or getting better.

The other choice is that *at best* it gets slightly worse.

We live in a two-party system. It is what it is.

 

[moreorless87]

I sort of agree that there is a political culture of pro-Israel that all of these politicians buy into. But I am pessimistic and don't think any of these politicians would back Israel if it meant lose their job and being voted out. Biden has been in the game too long that I don't think he can make the pivot; I think he still believe supporting this war is the right political play.

I also agree that AIPAC is a boogeyman. The amount of money they are donating in the grand scheme of things isn't that much. Their influence was being talked about even before Citizen's United case and their donations were capped.

When people talk about money and influence in politics, I think they focus too much on donations and funding campaigns. I think there are a lot of advantages in American politics to support Israel; there are some really sizable institutions that are pro-Israel (or at least, anti-anti-Israel) and going against that gives a needless headwind. AIPAC just becomes a proxy for Israeli interests similar to how the NRA is a proxy for pro-gun interests. It's not AIPAC itself that matters, but when they go against a candidate it is a signal that those interests will make that candidate's re-election as difficult as they can.

Sorry meant neoconservatives in that post but really I spose neoliberals in the same context isnt that different to many peoples understanding, basically hawkish foreign policy which claims to be in support of "western values".

There is definitely lobby money around and it likely does have an influence(or else why would it by there?) but I suspect the reality is its not the only factor in what we see. I think its not just that the establishment is highly immoral but that it is also quite strongly ideological to the degree a certain culture dominates which little ability for it to be gainsayer. Again it seems like Biden personally is very much that way inclined, he was I believe much more strongly in favour of carrying on the Lebanon conflict in the 80's than even Reagan was.

Personally I think that whats happening in Gaza has acted as a strong reveal that its not just conservatives who are strongly driven by a questionable simplified ideology but also centralist liberals. To me this seems equivalent to some western socialist Tankies backing Stalin's oppression in places like h Hungary in the 50's, follow a simplified ideology which makes you excuse actions which seem to go against your claimed morals. Centralist liberals are having to face that right now, there seeing the ugly truth of what there ideology has really led to, to be fair I think when you come to the general public many of them are turning away from that ideology but in political/media circles its proving much more resistant to the reality of the situation.

 

[The_Renaissance]

Hamas launches as per usual, a completely ineffective attack on Tel Aviv. Time to get out the donkeyfood in Rafah. Time for consequences. And when you see the kids crying in the news, just know that their plight was caused by these lunatic Muslim terrorists that think if they die they might get laid.

 

[moreorless87]

The vid breaks down to this...

One choice has the possibility of the Gaza situation staying the same as is or getting better.

The other choice is that *at best* it gets slightly worse.

We live in a two-party system. It is what it is.

The problem I think with the viewpoint pushed by this guy(and so many other similar figures) is he always leans totally towards partisan politics, his only focus is "The Republicans would be worse" and that its the responsibility of the voting public to make sure they do not come to power.

He seems to put very little focus indeed on putting pressure on the Democrats to change their position, the idea that public pressure could potentially force Biden to stop backing the Israelis not just because its immoral but because it risks losing him the election and indeed that by not doing this Biden and his allies are the ones potentially handing power to Trump.

As I said above for me he's a strong example of someone who seems to believe he has a great understanding of the reality of politics but for me he actually follows quite a simplistic ideology. The idea of the "grown up pragmatist" who's "doing what good could they could", in reality he's actually acting to suppress moral progressive politics by selling his ideology even in the face of such terrible events.

 

[deviake]

Part way through, very interesting interview. Her views evolved a lot over time, it sounds like she did a 180. She basically says she grew to know Palestinians and their culture and more about the Nakba and ongoing situation. She also said she noticed AIPAC moving further to the right and that she'd been told lies. Atop that, she doesn't believe what AIPAC/Israel is doing is keeping Jews and Israeli's safe.

Highly recommend listening.

 

[Volador]

they keep finding this "shani louk" woman's body lmao

Pure Israeli propaganda for someone who was a IDF fighter

Imagine believing anything that these fuckers put out. Clueless.

Brother, you are mentally retarded:

Killing of Shani Louk - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

According to Louk's aunt, she held pacifist views and obtained an exemption from military service in Israel, which she said was facilitated by her dual citizenship.

And why would they lie about finding her body? Go back to losing leagues with Arsenal and racing to make 200k posts instead of showing how embarrassingly fucking stupid you are here. What a shit stain lmao.

 

[Anewt]

I get that you’re mad. It doesn’t make you right and certainly doesn’t justify you lying. Have a good one.

Gee. What a surprise you didn't respond .

Just another thing you accused me off that you are yourself

 

[Chules]

They never claimed this anywhere. Dumb as shit, worse than I thought. Unfortunate.

As for Arsenal, they are a laughing stock. Two bottled leagues in a row, pussy behavior 101, like all their fans. I piss on Arsenal's corpse of a team.

I’ve seen articles about her being found every week for the last 7 months. In one article they said they did forensic analysis on her skull ffs. It’s all bollocks to leach billions from our governments in aid/weapons. They’re parading her image around to get virgins like you on their side.

We will be back next year.

 

[Chules]

Where have they claimed to have found her before again?

German-Israeli Shani Louk is dead, says mother - BBC News

Ricarda Louk says a DNA sample taken from part of a skull is a match with her 22-year-old daughter.

www.bbc.co.uk

30 October 2023

Pussyoles

 

[EOW]

As for Arsenal, they are a laughing stock. Two bottled leagues in a row, pussy behavior 101, like all their fans. I piss on Arsenal's corpse of a team

^^^^^^^^

 

[deviake]

The problem I think with the viewpoint pushed by this guy(and so many other similar figures) is he always leans totally towards partisan politics, his only focus is "The Republicans would be worse" and that its the responsibility of the voting public to make sure they do not come to power.

He seems to put very little focus indeed on putting pressure on the Democrats to change their position, the idea that public pressure could potentially force Biden to stop backing the Israelis not just because its immoral but because it risks losing him the election and indeed that by not doing this Biden and his allies are the ones potentially handing power to Trump.

As I said above for me he's a strong example of someone who seems to believe he has a great understanding of the reality of politics but for me he actually follows quite a simplistic ideology. The idea of the "grown up pragmatist" who's "doing what good could they could", in reality he's actually acting to suppress moral progressive politics by selling his ideology even in the face of such terrible events.

I mostly agree with this though he does address the mechanisms for change in the last minute or so of the video, that either the party is altered the party from within by progressives or structures need to be built outside of it and these things take time, which is true. That said, forming and supporting parties outside of the Democrats has thus far been ineffective and changing it by voting for progressive candidates also seems to, so far, have largely been ineffective.

I believe withholding votes is a valid and necessary form of protest though the "lesser of two evils" argument isn't lost on me (and does have at least some validity), it's also guaranteed to not change anything and I think force - straight up blunt force trauma - is the only thing at this point capable of changing the party. The same logic as consumerism, what people spend on gets more money and so forth. I'm not arguing for accelerationism but power tends to only respond to power, to force, and while I get the logic for the dismissal of this option, I don't think it's entirely accurate and there's often disingenuous arguments made against those who would withhold their vote for a candidate based on their policy decisions, when that's exactly how democracy on paper is supposed to work, the politicians are supposed to win the people over, they're our representatives after all.

It's not about punishing those in power as he frames it, not voting for them is saying, "you're not doing what I want from a representative, therefore I will not vote for you, not even in lieu of no other options" and I think it faulty to invalidate this use of protest, of exercising power, as it is not always done out of apathy. If someone wants to argue to use other means to enact change that's fine, I wouldn't say they're wrong, I just disagree on invalidating not voting for a particular party/candidate as if it's not also a means of expression, as a lever of power, and especially not with paired with blaming the voting bloc for an undesirable candidate getting in power. Plus, I think these things can go together, I don't seem them as mutually exclusive.

I digress, I don't want to get too off topic, this is just something I've given a good bit of thought to.

 

[Rholk]

German-Israeli Shani Louk is dead, says mother - BBC News

Ricarda Louk says a DNA sample taken from part of a skull is a match with her 22-year-old daughter.

www.bbc.co.uk

30 October 2023

Pussyoles

Even a retard should be able to read:

Speaking to German media, Ricarda Louk said she had been told by the Israeli military that a DNA sample taken from part of a skull bone proved to be Shani's.

Her body has not yet been found

 

[deviake]

Part way through, very interesting interview. Her views evolved a lot over time, it sounds like she did a 180. She basically says she grew to know Palestinians and their culture and more about the Nakba and ongoing situation. She also said she noticed AIPAC moving further to the right and that she'd been told lies. Atop that, she doesn't believe what AIPAC/Israel is doing is keeping Jews and Israeli's safe.

Highly recommend listening.

I'm going to go ahead and guess that the people who don't deign to criticize Israel and their lobbyists and treat this very serious and longstanding conflict like a team sport probably don't want to hear what she has to say.

 

[Chules]

Even a retard should be able to read:

Sounds fishy to me.

Was she decapitated? Surely the article would’ve mentioned that

 

[moreorless87]

I mostly agree with this though he does address the mechanisms for change in the last minute or so of the video, that either the party is altered the party from within by progressives or structures need to be built outside of it and these things take time, which is true. That said, forming and supporting parties outside of the Democrats has thus far been ineffective and changing it by voting for progressive candidates also seems to, so far, have largely been ineffective.

I believe withholding votes is a valid and necessary form of protest though the "lesser of two evils" argument isn't lost on me (and does have at least some validity), it's also guaranteed to not change anything and I think force - straight up blunt force trauma - is the only thing at this point capable of changing the party. The same logic as consumerism, what people spend on gets more money and so forth. I'm not arguing for accelerationism but power tends to only respond to power, to force, and while I get the logic for the dismissal of this option, I don't think it's entirely accurate and there's often disingenuous arguments made against those who would withhold their vote for a candidate based on their policy decisions, when that's exactly how democracy on paper is supposed to work, the politicians are supposed to win the people over, they're our representatives after all.

It's not about punishing those in power as he frames it, not voting for them is saying, "you're not doing what I want from a representative, therefore I will not vote for you, not even in lieu of no other options" and I think it faulty to invalidate this use of protest, of exercising power, as it is not always done out of apathy. If someone wants to argue to use other means to enact change that's fine, I wouldn't say they're wrong, I just disagree on invalidating not voting for a particular party/candidate as if it's not also a means of expression, as a lever of power, and especially not with paired with blaming the voting bloc for an undesirable candidate getting in power. Plus, I think these things can go together, I don't seem them as mutually exclusive.

I digress, I don't want to get too off topic, this is just something I've given a good bit of thought to.

The mans setting himself up as this supreme intellectual authority on politics but ultimately I feel like his ideology is actually something pretty simplistic which has been fostered on him by the political/media establishment which strongly wants to resist any shift towards progressive politics here and in many other areas.

The idea that you get the Dems into power THEN pressure them to make changes for me is ass backwards(not to mention its a jam tomorrow situation as the same arguments will just be invoked again kicking the can down the road) when in reality your main power is obviously your vote, the potential to withhold it or give it to a 3rd party. Outside of that I really see very little window for progressive politics to apply much pressure to the Dems, history shows us they tend to shift to the right post election never to the left.

Whether you should actually vote Dem or not if Biden keeps current policy or makes it worse I spose thats perhaps more questionable but the idea that you don't put any pressure on him now is I think clearly nonsense. The last few years I think we've very clearly seen the mask slip, that those who claim they are "doing what could they could" are very often doing nothing of the sort.

In terms of 3rd parties I would argue its not a question of getting power so much as applying pressure, look at the UK for example, what is the biggest political shift post millennium? I would argue Brexit is and how did that come about? via a 3rd party in UKIP who whilst they did not get much power themselves forced the Tories to shift position or potential risk a spilt vote.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

War on Gaza: Suspected Israeli reservist threatens mutiny​

Soldier declares he will not take orders from the defence minister, saying he wants to annihilate Palestinians

The video was addressed to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and it came after Gallant clashed with him over the so-called "post-war plan" in Gaza.

Earlier this month, Gallant publicly rejected open-ended Israeli governance over Gaza, demanding civilian affairs be handled by a Palestinian body.

'No one will stay alive, whoever hurt the people of Israel... we want to annihilate them'
- Suspected Israeli reservist

Netanyahu has rejected giving the Palestine Authority a role in Gaza, raising concern over his lack of post-war planning.

"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, this video is intended for you, we are reserve soldiers who do not intend on passing the keys of Gaza to any entity; be it Hamas, PLO [Palestine Liberation Organisation] or any other Arab entity," the soldier said in the video.

"The reserve soldiers are behind your back, and we want to win. We have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. You have 100,000 soldiers that are ready to give their souls to the People of Israel ... We will stay here until the end, until victory."

The soldier went on to say they would take orders only from Netanyahu, not Gallant or the chief of staff.

"So think very wisely to whom you are intending to pass the keys [of Gaza] afterwards," he said, addressing Netanyahu.

He then added that soldiers want to "tear to pieces whoever is left here".

"Whoever celebrated when we were slaughtered, all those little kids that stepped on our soldiers and brothers heads when they stepped foot on Gaza's soil, all those people, we want to kill," he said.

"No one will stay alive, whoever hurt the people of Israel, whoever hurt our brothers, the Jews, the Druze, the Bedouins, we want to annihilate them.

"You [Gallant] wanted a military coup? So I'm telling you, we are reservists who cannot go home - we'll show you what surrender and victory are, and we'll show you how real Jews win."

The video, published by far-right journalist Yinon Magal, was shared by Netanyahu's son, Yair Netanyahu, which drew condemnation.

According to Haaretz, the remarks in the video, along with Yair Netanyahu's distribution of it, may amount to sedition, which is punishable by up to five years in prison.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/war-gaza-suspected-israeli-reservist-threatens-mutiny

 

[Rholk]

War on Gaza: Suspected Israeli reservist threatens mutiny​

Soldier declares he will not take orders from the defence minister, saying he wants to annihilate Palestinians

The video was addressed to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and it came after Gallant clashed with him over the so-called "post-war plan" in Gaza.

Earlier this month, Gallant publicly rejected open-ended Israeli governance over Gaza, demanding civilian affairs be handled by a Palestinian body.


Netanyahu has rejected giving the Palestine Authority a role in Gaza, raising concern over his lack of post-war planning.

"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, this video is intended for you, we are reserve soldiers who do not intend on passing the keys of Gaza to any entity; be it Hamas, PLO [Palestine Liberation Organisation] or any other Arab entity," the soldier said in the video.

"The reserve soldiers are behind your back, and we want to win. We have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. You have 100,000 soldiers that are ready to give their souls to the People of Israel ... We will stay here until the end, until victory."

The soldier went on to say they would take orders only from Netanyahu, not Gallant or the chief of staff.

"So think very wisely to whom you are intending to pass the keys [of Gaza] afterwards," he said, addressing Netanyahu.

He then added that soldiers want to "tear to pieces whoever is left here".

"Whoever celebrated when we were slaughtered, all those little kids that stepped on our soldiers and brothers heads when they stepped foot on Gaza's soil, all those people, we want to kill," he said.

"No one will stay alive, whoever hurt the people of Israel, whoever hurt our brothers, the Jews, the Druze, the Bedouins, we want to annihilate them.

"You [Gallant] wanted a military coup? So I'm telling you, we are reservists who cannot go home - we'll show you what surrender and victory are, and we'll show you how real Jews win."

The video, published by far-right journalist Yinon Magal, was shared by Netanyahu's son, Yair Netanyahu, which drew condemnation.

According to Haaretz, the remarks in the video, along with Yair Netanyahu's distribution of it, may amount to sedition, which is punishable by up to five years in prison.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/war-gaza-suspected-israeli-reservist-threatens-mutiny

Good thing they got rid of that guy

IDF dismisses reservist who recorded video calling for mutiny

The IDF reservist who recorded a video of himself calling for a rebellion has been dismissed from reserve duty

m.jpost.com

 

[deviake]

The mans setting himself up as this supreme intellectual authority on politics but ultimately I feel like his ideology is actually something pretty simplistic which has been fostered on him by the political/media establishment which strongly wants to resist any shift towards progressive politics here and in many other areas.

The idea that you get the Dems into power THEN pressure them to make changes for me is ass backwards(not to mention its a jam tomorrow situation as the same arguments will just be invoked again kicking the can down the road) when in reality your main power is obviously your vote, the potential to withhold it or give it to a 3rd party. Outside of that I really see very little window for progressive politics to apply much pressure to the Dems, history shows us they tend to shift to the right post election never to the left.

Whether you should actually vote Dem or not if Biden keeps current policy or makes it worse I spose thats perhaps more questionable but the idea that you don't put any pressure on him now is I think clearly nonsense. The last few years I think we've very clearly seen the mask slip, that those who claim they are "doing what could they could" are very often doing nothing of the sort.

In terms of 3rd parties I would argue its not a question of getting power so much as applying pressure, look at the UK for example, what is the biggest political shift post millennium? I would argue Brexit is and how did that come about? via a 3rd party in UKIP who whilst they did not get much power themselves forced the Tories to shift position or potential risk a spilt vote.

Mmm yeah, those are great points, the idea of applying pressure after they get into office also drives me nuts, 100% ass backwards indeed. I'd go so far as to say it's intentionally manipulative and much of these arguments, particularly when made by politicians and their pundits, is fear based and divisive. I'll add to that the ratchet effect that happens after a republican gets into power and shifts the country right, the following democrat tends to start from there instead of reversing course.

I don't know much about UK politics but I remember that, I just didn't look into the details of how all that went down. There's so much shit going on with american politics I don't look into other countries' politics as much as I should.

 

[Strychnine]

Mmm yeah, those are great points, the idea of applying pressure after they get into office also drives me nuts, 100% ass backwards indeed. I'd go so far as to say it's intentionally manipulative and much of these arguments, particularly when made by politicians and their pundits, is fear based and divisive. I'll add to that the ratchet effect that happens after a republican gets into power and shifts the country right, the following democrat tends to start from there instead of reversing course.

I don't know much about UK politics but I remember that, I just didn't look into the details of how all that went down. There's so much shit going on with american politics I don't look into other countries' politics as much as I should.

Ok, let's game this out.

Biden applies MAX pressure on Israel right now.
Israel says "Ok, we're going even harder."
Biden looks weaker as Israel defies him.
Trump wins re-election.
Trump says, "let the J-DAMS fall like rain in Palestine."

Palestine gets wiped out.

Any questions?

 

[moreorless87]

Mmm yeah, those are great points, the idea of applying pressure after they get into office also drives me nuts, 100% ass backwards indeed. I'd go so far as to say it's intentionally manipulative and much of these arguments, particularly when made by politicians and their pundits, is fear based and divisive. I'll add to that the ratchet effect that happens after a republican gets into power and shifts the country right, the following democrat tends to start from there instead of reversing course.

I don't know much about UK politics but I remember that, I just didn't look into the details of how all that went down. There's so much shit going on with american politics I don't look into other countries' politics as much as I should.

The UK Independence Party emerged pushing for Brexit, they started to take votes off of the Tories and Cameron has to promise a referendum to avoid losing votes, the Tories as a whole shifted more towards Brexit, the refferdum was won by Brexit and the Tories got pushed even more towards delivering a hard Brexit until Johnson took power. A classic case of how a new political party had a massive impact on essential a two party system by threatening to spilt a vote, that was really the way they were always envisioned as well.

I feel like the line he's pushing is what in the UK we'd call "centralist dad politics", basically pushing the idea that you understand politics more than progressives pushing for significant change. I feel that really this is a bit of a fantasy which gets sold to such people, its a fantasy which I think appeals to the ego and deference to authority plus I think it also tends to be pretty gutless, an ideology you can hold and have the establishment tell you how smart and moral you are unlike those filthy anti-Semite protestors. The "dad" part tends to come with the degree of arrogant condescension with which its represented with and indeed I think a lot of its effectiveness comes down to ego, people not wanting to back down and admit they've been hoodwinked.

What he calls "compromise" I call "capitulation", something which is genuinely the former will need to be fought for tooth and nail, it will not be easily given and much of the time politics and politicians who are presented as the former turn out to be strongly hostile to progressive politics, witness Keir Starmer the supposed "compromise" candidate who quickly went about purging his party of progressives