International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

[Rational Poster]

But that is the main contention here. All the pro-IDF people in this thread are claiming the estimated total casualties numbers are a lie.

Well the way they are framed is a lie. It's been like hundred pages of you guys claiming the IDF is only killing innocent women and children, and they're doing it deliberately even.

There is no distinction or even any effort made toward a distinction by either the Palestinians or their Western supporters.

It's purely emotional propaganda.

 

[DEVILsSON]

Didn't you also make that distinction though?

I can't speak for Gazans, but if they support the military wing it's probably because they see then as more capable than other military groups. It also shows how under attack they feel that Hamas, leaders most don't want, are trusted to protect them in conflict.

Which seems crazy considering the human shields narratives and immense collateral damage. It suggests the IDF are not seen as anything other than a malevolent force in Gaza, which is a shame as Western forces generally try (or pretend to try) to work with local populations in war time. That's a great way to gather intelligence.

I worry there is none of that, which explains so much about this conflict and how everyone has dehumanised everyone else. So sad.

Not sure what you mean. When I tried discussing the two entities (Hamas and Martyr Brigades for example)separately, Hog reiterated that the MB faction that enjoyed the highest support was in fact part of Hamas(militant wing). So it seems like you guys want to have it both ways. It's the same but also not the same when it's inconvenient.

No offense but that sounds like mental gymnastics that borders on gibberish. If a certain entity fucked up, caused a war, had my family killed, had my house destroyed, etc I would not be supporting them. That's just me though.

There's also a thing called Stockholm Syndrome and living a generation under Hamas will certainly get you to sympathize and support them even when it's against your interests.

War is terrible. Dehumanization by both sides is terrible. We agree on that.

Where we differ is Hamas must be removed and unfortunately there's no easy path to that. Many civilians have died and will sadly continue to die. I don't know what other path there is. I am all for any pragmatic solution. Even UN police peace keepers regulated area would be preferable to Hamas.

 

[iwannabeadored]

You’re trying to pretend he’s racist when Israel is surrounded by Arabs who they have peace with.

Dodge and duck again you zionazi

 

[tastaylvr]

Not sure what you mean. When I tried discussing the two entities (Hamas and Martyr Brigades for example)separately, Hog reiterated that the MB faction that enjoyed the highest support was in fact part of Hamas(militant wing). So it seems like you guys want to have it both ways. It's the same but also not the same when it's inconvenient.

No offense but that sounds like mental gymnastics that borders on gibberish. If a certain entity fucked up, caused a war, had my family killed, had my house destroyed, etc I would not be supporting them. That's just me though.

There's also a thing called Stockholm Syndrome and living a generation under Hamas will certainly get you to sympathize and support them even when it's against your interests.

War is terrible. Dehumanization by both sides is terrible. We agree on that.

Where we differ is Hamas must be removed and unfortunately there's no easy path to that. Many civilians have died and will sadly continue to die. I don't know what other path there is. I am all for any pragmatic solution. Even UN police peace keepers regulated area would be preferable to Hamas.

What is your definition of Hamas being removed?

 

[SandisLL]

Not sure what you mean. When I tried discussing the two entities (Hamas and Martyr Brigades for example)separately, Hog reiterated that the MB faction that enjoyed the highest support was in fact part of Hamas(militant wing). So it seems like you guys want to have it both ways. It's the same but also not the same when it's inconvenient.

No offense but that sounds like mental gymnastics that borders on gibberish. If a certain entity fucked up, caused a war, had my family killed, had my house destroyed, etc I would not be supporting them. That's just me though.

There's also a thing called Stockholm Syndrome and living a generation under Hamas will certainly get you to sympathize and support them even when it's against your interests.

War is terrible. Dehumanization by both sides is terrible. We agree on that.

Where we differ is Hamas must be removed and unfortunately there's no easy path to that. Many civilians have died and will sadly continue to die. I don't know what other path there is. I am all for any pragmatic solution. Even UN police peace keepers regulated area would be preferable to Hamas.

U.N as de facto Ryssia's and China's puppet organisation ofc will be welcomed.
Stuff is that China and Russia does have veto rights in UN security council and UN in reality is waste of our taxpayers money to support thousands well paid bireucrats with high salaries and really impressive bonuses and cool insurance etc. ...literally they are useless and still are milking everyone paying some form of tax...in ALL world. More than this: they had proved that are helpless against North Korea and Iran, so who will dream that they might be usable against China or Russia?

 

[Hog-train]

Well the way they are framed is a lie. It's been like hundred pages of you guys claiming the IDF is only killing innocent women and children, and they're doing it deliberately even.

There is no distinction or even any effort made toward a distinction by either the Palestinians or their Western supporters.

It's purely emotional propaganda.

No one is claiming that. Of course Hamas were killed along with civilians.

I do dispute the alleged 13K Hamas killed figure though. Because that would mean nearly every single adult male killed was Hamas. That strains all common sense.

 

[DEVILsSON]

What is your definition of Hamas being removed?

Not being involved in the governance or military/policing of Gaza/Palestine.

I will not pretend that Israel can kill or imprison every Hamas member. However it can no longer be a legitimate player in the region. It should be treated like ISIS/Al Queda/etc in the area.

I am also not naive enough to think that some democratic entity will take over. But even if Palestinian Authority or Fatah strikes a deal with Israel for a two state solution, I'd be in favor of that.

 

[Siver!]

Crazy to hear that right wing Israeli nutcases don't want more aid into Gaza.

Can we at least call those scumbags 'genocidal'?

I'm so glad I don't align with the worst people on earth - the ivory tower ethnic cleansers.

 

[kflo]

Go away troll.

Dude. You are doing exactly that. Deal with it.

 

[kflo]

I’ve answered this questions many times. I said I am not against them existing.

However Israel and Bibi is against Palestine existing. “Only for me not for thee”

Well then you are a Zionist too. Welcome.

 

[kflo]

No one is claiming that. Of course Hamas were killed along with civilians.

I do dispute the alleged 13K Hamas killed figure though. Because that would mean nearly every single adult male killed was Hamas. That strains all common sense.

No it doesn’t mean that. It only means that if you believe every hamas number.

 

[The_Renaissance]

I will never feel sorry for people who celebrated October 7th. They deserve everything they get.

 

[SammyPops]

My great-grandfather escaped Auschwitz in WWII.

Spoiler

He managed to ditch his uniform and get into civilian clothes just before the Red Army arrived.

My grandfather fought for the Red Army, captured by Germans, fought for Vlasov's army, fled to the allies and escaped to Canada.

A lot of us are here b/c of escaping WW2 in EU! Something in common

 

[Rational Poster]

No one is claiming that. Of course Hamas were killed along with civilians.

I do dispute the alleged 13K Hamas killed figure though. Because that would mean nearly every single adult male killed was Hamas. That strains all common sense.

Lmao

 

[Hog-train]

Dude. You are doing exactly that. Deal with it.

You're not worth replying to seriously.

 

[kflo]

You're not worth replying to seriously.

Lol. Run along little doggy.

Some of you guys are the biggest fuckin snowflakes around.

You’re either a coward or can’t even follow your own logic.

 

[Hog-train]

Lol. Run along little doggy.

Some of you guys are the biggest fuckin snowflakes around.

You’re either a coward or can’t even follow your own logic.

You and that thundercock or whatever guy are childish trolls.

 

[kflo]

You and that thundercock or whatever guy are childish trolls.

I pointed out a flaw in your thinking that you can’t accept. So you rage quit. You are the one who behaves like a child.

 

[kflo]

This is what made you rage quit. Lol.

But that is the main contention here. All the pro-IDF people in this thread are claiming the estimated total casualties numbers are a lie.

No. You’re the one contending the Hamas casualties are a lie.

 

[SammyPops]

I will never feel sorry for people who celebrated October 7th. They deserve everything they get.

What do they, civilians who celebrated Oct 7, deserve?