International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

[Islam Imamate]

You can understand that when you like the “I am rooting for Hamas” posts or the “anti-Judaism is not antisemitism” might color my interpretation of your posts?

What? Don't remember that. Must've misread it as "anti-Zionist" rather than "anti-Judaism" or perhaps he meant that criticizing the religion isn't necessarily bigotry against the people. That is said about Islam all the time and I'm sure you'd agree with it in that context.

Either way if we're going to "like" police then I think its fair for me to notice that you've liked posts pushing the most radical settler vision ITT like here. Again, imagine if I went around saying you support the radical settler movement based off that, do you think that would be good faith?

Also the interactions just now with the Muslim Brotherhood support…

Well if I said based off that interaction that you support military dictatorship, do you think that would be fair? Or do you think it'd be more fair to acknowledge that in a country like Egypt there are no good options and that either way one is picking a "lesser evil"?

Let's have a come to Jesus moment here for a minute, bud. Islam is in a serious need of a reform. If its adherents could stop believing in harboring hatred and violent intentions towards unbelievers, women, and homosexuals, that'd be greeeeaaaat...

The Muslim world needs political and economic reform, not religious reform. That means an end to dictatorship and corruption. Let's focus on that first.

Again I think this is a misrepresentation and false comparison. You didn't ask me to clarify my stance on those points. If you did, I would have happily have answered.

The conversation showed me asking you five times directly what your general thoughts were on X subject (really gentle wording even) and you purposely ignoring or omitting it from the conversation. There was no assumption on my part - your lack of answer despite my repeated questioning was an answer within itself.

You asked me many things and I was answering them, that I didn't answer every single thing shouldn't mean you go around making uncharitable assumptions about my views and since you did I am going to assume you are operating in bad faith. Certainly I wouldn't do that to you despite the fact that you were happy to defend false beliefs about Muslims and evade questions about Jewish extremism. I've already condemned Islamic extremism a few times ITT but for people like you its never enough.

 

[Samjj]

What? Don't remember that. Must've misread it as "anti-Zionist" rahter than "anti-Judaism"

Either way if we're going to "like" police then I think its fair for me to notice that you've liked posts pushing the most radical settler vision ITT like here. Again, imagine if I went around saying you support the radical settler movement based off that, do you think that would be good faith?

You asked me many things and I was answering them, that I didn't answer every single thing shouldn't mean you go around making uncharitable assumptions about my views and since you did I am going to assume you are operating in bad faith. Certainly I wouldn't do that to you despite the fact that you were happy to defend false beliefs about Muslims and evade questions about Jewish extremism. I've already condemned Islamic extremism a few times ITT but for people like you its never enough.

I think it's hard to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one.

islamimam hosted at ImgBB

Image islamimam hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

I think you're obfuscating here. There is ambiguity in liking a post which contains many points. For example I can support this claim regarding Israel's Arab population contradicting claims of ethnic cleansing. Liking a single sentence post which claims "I support Hamas 100%" leaves little ambiguity.

Again, I did not ask you many questions. I asked you the same question five times in a row and I was left without an answer. Even now, I am curious to your answer regarding the correct answer for the issue of extremism within global Islamic communities.

 

[Strychnine]

Let's have a come to Jesus moment here for a minute, bud. Islam is in a serious need of a reform. If its adherents could stop believing in harboring hatred and violent intentions towards unbelievers, women, and homosexuals, that'd be greeeeaaaat...

PLEASE don't go there!

The exact same thing can be applied to multiple religious believers around the planet, chiefly "Christians".

And I am one.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I think it's hard to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one.

islamimam hosted at ImgBB

Image islamimam hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Yeah like I said in my edit what he seems to be saying is that he's against the religion and not the people. Don't you think one can criticize Judaism as a religion while not being anti-Semitic? Or is criticism of the religion ipso facto bigotry against the people? I doubt you'd say that about Islam.

I think you're obfuscating here. There is ambiguity in liking a post which contains many points. For example I can support this claim regarding Israel's Arab population contradicting claims of ethnic cleansing. Liking a single sentence post which claims "I support Hamas 100%" leaves little ambiguity.

I liked one facetious post by a guy who makes humorously exaggerated ones. In case its not clear I do not "100% support Hamas" but I do like K1levelgrappler's humor.

I think if you look at the totality of my posting in good faith you wouldn't get the impression I'm a Hamas supporter.

Again, I did not ask you many questions. I asked you the same question five times in a row and I was left without an answer. Even now, I am curious to your answer regarding the correct answer for the issue of extremism within global Islamic communities.

You were asking me many things, that's why I responded addressing other points. In that post you responded to I asked you multiple questions and you didn't answer them, should I make assumptions about your answers? For instance I asked this

Well if I said based off that interaction that you support military dictatorship, do you think that would be fair? Or do you think it'd be more fair to acknowledge that in a country like Egypt there are no good options and that either way one is picking a "lesser evil"?

Now imagine if I went around saying you support military dictatorship because you dodged this question, would that be good faith?

Like I said earlier I condemned Islamic extremism multiple times ITT but that's not what you really want from me, you want me to condemn Islam as a whole and of course I'm not going to do that.

Ah, I see. So you have no problem with the hatred and violence being preached against kafirs, women, and homosexuals in Islam.

Bro, you need Jesus.

That's not what I said but at this point I can't say I expect much else from you.

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

PLEASE don't go there!

The exact same thing can be applied to multiple religious believers around the planet, chiefly "Christians".

And I am one.

Yes, but the number of Muslims, be they moderate or radical, inciting violence and hatred against unbelievers, women, and homosexuals vastly outnumber the Christians that do the same.

How do you explain the female genital mutilation and honor killings that are prevalent in the MENA regions? Or how about the persecution of the Coptic Egyptians? Homosexuals in Palestine who apply for refugee status in Israel to escape violence from their peers?

How often do you see majority Christian nations do the same to these marginalized groups?

 

[Strychnine]

Yes, but the number of Muslims, be they moderate or radical, inciting violence and hatred against unbelievers, women, and homosexuals vastly outnumber the Christians that do the same.

How do you explain the female genital mutilation and honor killings that are prevalent in the MENA regions? Or how about the persecution of the Coptic Egyptians? Homosexuals in Palestine who apply for refugee status in Israel to escape violence from their peers?

How often do you see majority Christian nations do the same to these marginalized groups?

Just turn on the news.

 

[Koya]

Israeli air strike targets landmark residential tower in southern Rafah • FRANCE 24 English



Israel struck one of the largest residential towers in Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip on Saturday, residents said, stepping up pressure on the last area of the enclave it has not yet invaded and where over a million displaced Palestinians are sheltering. The 12-floor building, located some 500 metres from the border with Egypt, was damaged in the strike. Dozens of families were made homeless though no casualties were reported, according to residents

 

[Samjj]

Yeah like I said in my edit what he seems to be saying is that he's against the religion and not the people. Don't you think one can criticize Judaism as a religion while not being anti-Semitic? Or is criticism of the religion ipso facto bigotry against the people? I doubt you'd say that about Islam.

I liked one facetious post by a guy who makes humorously exaggerated ones. In case its not clear I do not "100% support Hamas" but I do like K1levelgrappler's humor.

I think if you look at the totality of my posting in good faith you wouldn't get the impression I'm a Hamas supporter.

You were asking me many things, that's why I responded addressing other points. In that post you responded to I asked you multiple questions and you didn't answer them, should I make assumptions about your answers? For instance I asked this

Now imagine if I went around saying you support military dictatorship because you dodged this question, would that be good faith?

Like I said earlier I condemned Islamic extremism multiple times ITT but that's not what you really want from me, you want me to condemn Islam as a whole and of course I'm not going to do that.

That's not what I said but at this point I can't say I expect much else from you.

I think you’re unfortunately being dishonest here - but agree to disagree I guess.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Until he stops sending daily shipments of weapons to bomb Gazans and force Israel to let enter the available massive aid trucks blocked by Israelis at the borders then yeah it's for optics.

It's silly to have a few airdrops when you also send bombs and you don't force Israelis to let aid truck enter

Maybe there's only so much that he can force them to do and that instead he's decided to work around them. If he really didn't care he'd take the Trumpian approach of just letting Israel do what it wants but that's not what he's done.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I think you’re unfortunately being dishonest here - but agree to disagree I guess.

With all due respect that comes off as a cop out to me. When I fail to answer a question as you did here now you would go on to make and spread many assumptions about me. But whatever, agree to disagree.

 

[Koya]

Maybe there's only so much that he can force them to do and that instead he's decided to work around them. If he really didn't care he'd take the Trumpian approach of just letting Israel do what it wants but that's not what he's done.

He did let Israel do what it wants tho. Literally. He supplied 2000lb bombs that were dropped on residential areas. He doesn't put any pressure to force Israel to let humanitarian aid enter.

No one can say that there's only so much he can do when he's currently still supplying bombs that kill human lives as we speak. He could start by stopping that, then it would be good faith. Until he stops supplying death items he's just posturing for optics.

Which is obviously because elections are nearing and all the Arab voter base is now 100% against him plus a part of the younger voter base.

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

That's not what I said but at this point I can't say I expect much else from you.

You said Islam is in need of an economic and political reform, not a religious reform.

When you have many Muslims who take to heart the hadiths and Qur'an verses regarding violence and hatred towards kafirs, women, and homosexuals, how can you not advocate for a religious reform to clean up its image and make it more compatible with modern values and morals?

Let's face it, the main reason the entire ummah is opposed to the state of Israel Is because they can't stand the sight of a community of kafirs taking over what used to be part of an Islamic caliphate. Also, there's this hadith:

"The Hour [of Resurrection] will not come until you fight the Jews. The Jew will hide behind stones or trees. The stones or trees will call: ‘Oh Muslim, servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.’ Except for the Gharqad tree [which will keep silent].”

This hadith was mentioned in the founding charter of Hamas that was written in 1988. This is the reason why there never will be peace between Jews and Muslims.

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

Just turn on the news.

Come on, brother. These are fringe elements of the far-right. The majority of Americans do not condone violence against said marginalized groups.

 

[Islam Imamate]

You said Islam is in need of an economic and political reform, not a religious reform.

When you have many Muslims who take to heart the hadiths and Qur'an verses regarding violence and hatred towards kafirs, women, and homosexuals, how can you not advocate for a religious reform to clean up its image and make it more compatible with modern values and morals?

Let's face it, the main reason the entire ummah is opposed to the state of Israel Is because they can't stand the sight of a community of kafirs taking over what used to be part of an Islamic caliphate. Also, there's this hadith:



This hadith was mentioned in the founding charter of Hamas that was written in 1988. This is the reason why there never will be peace between Jews and Muslims.

Saudi Arabia, the guardian of the Holy Cities, is an ally of Israel and is nearing normalization with the other Gulf states having already done so. They're also opening up to the modern world with a big charm offensive so idk what planet you're living on that there can never be peace between Muslims and Jews without changing the religion. All those countries are far more religious, not less, than others like Syria and Lebanon which hate Israel. And all that was done not with religious reform but political and economic reform. Of course I don't like the level of autocracy in the Gulf states but at least they are competent managers who can deliver a decent life for their citizens unlike the Egyptian military dictatorship that you support.

Do you think Armenians and the Irish also hate Israel because it occupies parts of the former caliphate? Or might there be political disagreements there?

 

[Islam Imamate]

He did let Israel do what it wants tho. Literally. He supplied 2000lb bombs that were dropped on residential areas. He doesn't put any pressure to force Israel to let humanitarian aid enter.

No one can say that there's only so much he can do when he's currently still supplying bombs that kill human lives as we speak. He could start by stopping that, then it would be good faith. Until he stops supplying death items he's just posturing for optics.

Which is obviously because elections are nearing and all the Arab voter base is now 100% against him plus a part of the younger voter base.

If he really wanted to let Israel do what it wants he wouldn't have made aid to Israel contingent on getting aid to Ukraine which got roughly ten times what Israel was supposed to. People forget this but the ground invasion was supposed to happen 48 hours from the attack but was delayed for weeks due to behind the scenes pressure from Biden. And Biden did initially force them to let aid through and even forced them to allow internet access in Gaza at one point.

Israel is not a vassal state of the US, in fact it doesn't even have very deep loyalty to the US as it has good relations with China and Russia. The US cannot dictate policy to Israel and if its too forceful Israel might just decide to throw her lot in with Russia and China. If you think Biden is indifferent to the Palestinians imagine when Israel's patron is Russia or China. I think its clear now that I'm not a fan of the Zionist state but I still prefer Israel on our side and not with the likes of those states.

 

[ferrisjso]

If he really wanted to let Israel do what it wants he wouldn't have made aid to Israel contingent on getting aid to Ukraine which got roughly ten times what Israel was supposed to. People forget this but the ground invasion was supposed to happen 48 hours from the attack but was delayed for weeks due to behind the scenes pressure from Biden. And Biden did initially force them to let aid through and even forced them to allow internet access in Gaza at one point.

Israel is not a vassal state of the US, in fact it doesn't even have very deep loyalty to the US as it has good relations with China and Russia. The US cannot dictate policy to Israel and if its too forceful Israel might just decide to throw her lot in with Russia and China. If you think Biden is indifferent to the Palestinians imagine when Israel's patron is Russia or China. I think its clear now that I'm not a fan of the Zionist state but I still prefer Israel on our side and not with the likes of those states.

This is ignoring the context that the Israelis need much less money for their gencoide of 141 sq mile then the Ukranians do for their war with Russia along a massive front which they are losing. 2 completley different situations.

 

[Strychnine]

Come on, brother. These are fringe elements of the far-right. The majority of Americans do not condone violence against said marginalized groups.

The "Christian" right just took away a female's (including impregnated children) right to not be pregnant in the United States of America. Let that sink in... A female (in conservative parts of the country) no longer has the right, even in the case of rape or incest to not be pregnant.

We just can't paint an entire religion with a broad brush when there are extremists who shout the loudest in all of them

 

[Strychnine]

Saudi Arabia, the guardian of the Holy Cities, is an ally of Israel and is nearing normalization with the other Gulf states having already done so. They're also opening up to modern world with a big charm offensive so idk what planet you're living on that there can never be peace between Muslims and Jews without changing the religion. All those countries are far more religious, not less, than others like Syria and Lebanon which hate Israel. And all that was done not with religious reform but political and economic reform. Of course I don't like the level of autocracy in the Gulf states but at least they are competent managers who can deliver a decent life for their citizens unlike the Egyptian military dictatorship that you support.

Do you think Armenians and the Irish also hate Israel because it occupies parts of the former caliphate? Or might there be political disagreements there?

The bold underlined part is a major reason why Hamas attacked, among other things that Israel did too.

Plenty of blame to go around.

 

[Samjj]

With all due respect that comes off as a cop out to me. When I fail to answer a question as you did here now you would go on to make and spread many assumptions about me. But whatever, agree to disagree.

I see your line of questioning as mostly intending to again obfuscate and distract from points that you made.

Posters can follow our conversation and draw their own conclusions based on what you have said, but you certainly haven’t changed my mind regarding your beliefs.

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

Saudi Arabia, the guardian of the Holy Cities, is an ally of Israel and is nearing normalization with the other Gulf states having already done so. They're also opening up to modern world with a big charm offensive so idk what planet you're living on that there can never be peace between Muslims and Jews without changing the religion. All those countries are far more religious, not less, than others like Syria and Lebanon which hate Israel. And all that was done not with religious reform but political and economic reform. Of course I don't like the level of autocracy in the Gulf states but at least they are competent managers who can deliver a decent life for their citizens unlike the Egyptian military dictatorship that you support.

Great job on choosing Saudi Arabia as an Muslim ally of Israel to support your argument. You know, the very same country that refused to condemn Hamas and have been actively calling for a ceasefire in Gaza. MBS also called on all countries to stop exporting weapons to Israel.

Yeah, sure. They're only allies in the sense that the Sauds are only interested in trade and receiving the latest gadgets and gizmos from them, courtesy of Jewish kafir ingenuity. Recognition of Israel as the rightful homeland of the Jewish people? Nah, fuck that. Give me your latest technological innovations and here's my oil in return.

Do you think Armenians and the Irish also hate Israel because it occupies parts of the former caliphate? Or might there be political disagreements there?

Are you familiar with the alliance between the IRA and the PLO?

We've already discussed about Israel's role in the war between Armenia and Azerbaijan. I don't need to repeat myself.